Gotta love our media...

[Fosters]

http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin



Zimmerman was on the ground being punched when he shot Trayvon Martin

Last weekend in the city of Chicago alone, gangbangers slaughtered ten people and wounded another forty. The youngest fatality is only six years old. The youngest person wounded is only one-year-old. Many of the victim were pedestrians sprayed with bullets in drive by shootings. The national news has said nothing about this.

So why does one shooting in Florida warrant weeks of national news? Why has there been thousands of articles a day, for the last four days, about one single shooting?

Almost all of the news items about George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin contains a combination of false statements, opinions presented as facts, transparent distortions, and a complete absence of some of the most relevant details. Almost all news items are written soley from the point of view of the grieving family. The media also fills their articles with outdated baby-faced pictures of Trayvon. Very few include that he was a towering 6'2” football player. Is the media really reporting the news, or is this classic agitation/propaganda to advance a political agenda.

Literally thousands of articles contain at least one false statement in the first couple of lines. They usually read "George ZImmerman, a white man," or "shoot by a white man." Zimmerman is described by family as a multiracial Hispanic. His appearance is clearly that of a Latino/Mestizo individual. However, the media wants him to be white because that better fits the political narrative they are trying to artificially create. Many news articles have also claimed the neighborhood is "mostly white." This is also a lie. The neighborhood is only 49% white. It is over half non-white.

All the way back on February 27th, the local Orlando Fox station interviewed the witness who dialed 911. Almost none of the thousands of articles since have mentioned any of the details described by the witness. Some, however, have attributed false statements to this witness. On March 16th, the Sanford police department released new details to the Orlando Sentinel. Once again, these details have been ignored or changed by the media.

The witness reports that George Zimmerman was on the ground and Trayvon is on top of him punching him.
The witness says that George Zimmerman was screaming and yelling for help.
Police arrive and find Zimmerman bleeding on his face and the back of his head. He also has had grass stains on his back. All this confirms the story told by Zimmerman and the witness.
Police play the 911 tape for Trayvon Martin's father, who tells police that the voice screaming is not the voice of his son.
The neighborhood this took place in has seen a lot of crime. Would you be surprised to learn that there were eight burglaries, nine thefts, and a shooting just in the past year? In fact, the local homeowners' association reports that George Zimmerman actually caught one thief and aided in the apprehension of other criminals. The Miami Herald wrote about this on March 17th. None of the thousands of articles and cable news segments that came after, thought this was important.

In fact the Miami Herald goes on to interview neighbor, Ibrahim Rashada, who is black. Rashada ​confirms that there has been a lot of crime in the neighborhood and indicates to the reporter that the perpetrators are usually black.

The media also characterizes Trayvon as a "model student." In fact, he under a five day suspension when the shooting took place. That is why he was staying at a house so far from his school on a school night. A laywer for Trayvon's family has blocked access to his school records. However, you have to do something pretty bad to get suspended for five days.

Now that you know the suppressed facts of the case, you can for form a better more balanced opinion. Maybe you still think Zimmerman was wrong to pull the trigger. However, I think you will come to the conclusion that the "mainstream" clearly is pushing an agenda. Even when they have to grossly alter and adjust a story to fit that agenda.




:shake:

Oh, and before I forget:

It's Bush's fault: http://www.theblaze.com/blog/2012/03/23/msnbc-host-blames-bush-for-death-of-trayvon-martin/

And don't expect to see this one on the news anytime soon: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2110078/Boy-13-doused-gasoline-set-alight-racially-motivated-attack-Kansas-City.html

:mad2:

[Ozark Marauder]

like everything in media, this story will remain hot until some other crisis pops up.

A social network and news stories about the time line of the Trayvon Martin news events, interesting.......

http://storify.com/HollyEdgell/anatomy-coverage-of-trayvon-martin

OZ

[Spectragod]

Just remember.... B.O. said if he had a son, this is what he would be like..... really???

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=72&pictureid=1204

[Fosters]

Just remember.... B.O. said if he had a son, this is what he would be like..... really???

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=72&pictureid=1204


Walking around late at night beating up mexicans? :shake: Curious I haven't seen any outcry from the latinos yet, labeling their guy a white guy...

Wonder if Obama is gonna weigh in on the Kansas City deal...

[CBT]

You know his azz is going to jail.

[Spectragod]

Walking around late at night beating up mexicans? :shake: Curious I haven't seen any outcry from the latinos yet, labeling their guy a white guy...

Wonder if Obama is gonna weigh in on the Kansas City deal...

When the guy who supposedly murdered this "good boy", has abrasions to the front and back of the head, and grass stains on his back, you gotta wonder.

It's always a white/black thing, how about accepting that someone other than the "white guy" did something wrong? Besides, you shouldn't be acting like you have a gun if you don't, the other guy just might have one.

[tbone]

Thank GOD Zimmerman isn't white or there would be huge race riots, propogated by "The Great Unifier", Barack Hussein Obama.

Mmmmm.....mmmmmm......mmmmmm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LA4xEDw7mY

[CBT]

The kid was walking around with a bag of Skittles. If this guy gets away with shooting him, I will be surprised and pissed off.

[CBT]

Have beer summit, fix racial issues. :beer:

[tbone]

The kid was walking around with a bag of Skittles. If this guy gets away with shooting him, I will be surprised and pissed off.

Innocent until proven guilty.

[PonyUP]

The kid was walking around with a bag of Skittles. If this guy gets away with shooting him, I will be surprised and pissed off.

well there is nothing like perpetuating a stereotype based on a picture.

I don't care what the circumstances, a neighborhood watch person should not have a gun, plain and simple. Look around your neighborhood and ask yourself how many stupid people there are living there, now ask youself how you would feel if those same stupid people had a gun and you were taking a late night stroll with some skittles, now imagine your young black man.

If you own a gun to protect your home or your car or your property, thats great. But going out on patrol looking for people with a gun?

Yeah, probably not a good idea.

The media shouldn't boil this down to a race thing, and neither should we. By virtue of a neighborhood watch, you watch and report the crime, you don't draw. That is the facts folks. I don't care if he is hispanic, african american, asian, or martian. It never happens if he doesn't take a gun on patrol and report the crime to the trained professionals, the police.

[Haggis]

well there is nothing like perpetuating a stereotype based on a picture.

I don't care what the circumstances, a neighborhood watch person should not have a gun, plain and simple. Look around your neighborhood and ask yourself how many stupid people there are living there, now ask youself how you would feel if those same stupid people had a gun and you were taking a late night stroll with some skittles, now imagine your young black man.

If you own a gun to protect your home or your car or your property, thats great. But going out on patrol looking for people with a gun?

Yeah, probably not a good idea.

The media shouldn't boil this down to a race thing, and neither should we. By virtue of a neighborhood watch, you watch and report the crime, you don't draw. That is the facts folks. I don't care if he is hispanic, african american, asian, or martian. It never happens if he doesn't take a gun on patrol and report the crime to the trained professionals, the police.

If you live in a high crime neighborhood you carry a gun or get shot yourself.

[tbone]

But going out on patrol looking for people with a gun?


I agree.

Charles Bronson doesn't.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSt_P61KqI1d 102Wi2Ve4K0mz13Q2zeLrvQOp-shi-II7ofUvG1

[PonyUP]

I agree.

Charles Bronson doesn't.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSt_P61KqI1d 102Wi2Ve4K0mz13Q2zeLrvQOp-shi-II7ofUvG1

:lol: Alright, thats pretty good right there

[Fosters]

If you live in a high crime neighborhood you carry a gun or get shot yourself.

I'm packing when I have to walk my dog late at night for that exact reason. There was an incident the night after my excursion got broken into, walking my dog, when I would have felt a lot safer having a gun... next day I bought one.

I also started leaving target papers on the passenger seat of whatever I leave outside (with a nice grouping in the head). If anyone has gotten in them since, they sure didn't take anything... :D

[cougar9150]

The thing I see no mention of here in any of this retoric is the 911 call zimmerman made where the operator told him to stand down multiple times yet he still proceeded to pursue and then confront this kid. If some guy is following me down the road and harassing me I'm probably gonna turn around and lay down a can of whup ass down also.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

[kernie]

well there is nothing like perpetuating a stereotype based on a picture.

I don't care what the circumstances, a neighborhood watch person should not have a gun, plain and simple. Look around your neighborhood and ask yourself how many stupid people there are living there, now ask youself how you would feel if those same stupid people had a gun and you were taking a late night stroll with some skittles, now imagine your young black man.

If you own a gun to protect your home or your car or your property, thats great. But going out on patrol looking for people with a gun?

Yeah, probably not a good idea.

The media shouldn't boil this down to a race thing, and neither should we. By virtue of a neighborhood watch, you watch and report the crime, you don't draw. That is the facts folks. I don't care if he is hispanic, african american, asian, or martian. It never happens if he doesn't take a gun on patrol and report the crime to the trained professionals, the police.


If you live in a high crime neighborhood you carry a gun or get shot yourself.


If the "captain", :shake:, didn't have access and didn't have a gun he likely would have waited for the cops who would have quickly found out how many red skittles he had.

As for all the drive-by shooting victims over the weekend in Chicago, :bigcry:, remember, it's not the gun...

Fire away!

eer, i mean...

Have your say!

:D

[Fosters]

The thing I see no mention of here in any of this retoric is the 911 call zimmerman made where the operator told him to stand down multiple times yet he still proceeded to pursue and then confront this kid. If some guy is following me down the road and harassing me I'm probably gonna turn around and lay down a can of whup ass down also.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

This was a gated community, he was watch captain. How can he do his duty of watching if he's not following/in sight?

The police, esp in Florida, doesn't have the best record to stand on... Remember the Donna Watts thing where she (the trooper) was pursuing another miami pd car at 120mph and she was told to back down as well?

[Fosters]

As for all the drive-by shooting victims over the weekend in Chicago, :bigcry:, remember, it's not the gun...

Fire away!

eer, i mean...

Have your say!

:D

Good point, clearly Chicago's loose gun laws are what's to blame for drive-by's becoming a daily occurrence like they have... :lol:

[tbone]

If the "captain", :shake:, didn't have access and didn't have a gun he likely would have waited for the cops who would have quickly found out how many red skittles he had.

:D

So let's take EVERYONE'S gun away! Brilliant critical thinking!

[CBT]

Good point, clearly Chicago's loose gun laws are what's to blame for drive-by's becoming a daily occurrence like they have... :lol:

How do we know that 6 year old girl wasn't throwing up gang signs at her rivals? You can't trust the media.

[PonyUP]

How do we know that 6 year old girl wasn't throwing up gang signs at her rivals? You can't trust the media.

:lol: seen it happen


Pony seal of Approval

[jerrym3]

The thing I see no mention of here in any of this retoric is the 911 call zimmerman made where the operator told him to stand down multiple times yet he still proceeded to pursue and then confront this kid. If some guy is following me down the road and harassing me I'm probably gonna turn around and lay down a can of whup ass down also.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

Agree. Plain as day on the recorded call.

And, as far as "innocent until proven guilty", what about the dead kid? Isn't he innocent until proven guilty? But, too late now.

Zimmerman played judge, jury, and executioner all in one.

A lot of folks get nervous when seeing someone in a hoodie, but a lot of people aslo get nervous when someone has tattoos everywhere. Where's the line?

Now, if this kid did get adversarial and turned around to confront Zimmerman, one shot from Zimmerman into the ground would bring any sane person, especially one without a weapon, to think twice, and run like hell.

I sure would.

[tbone]

This was a gated community, he was watch captain. How can he do his duty of watching if he's not following/in sight?


Ka-POW! :beer:

[PonyUP]

I'm all for arming yourself, but not as a neighborhood watch. Those guys watch Die Hard one to many times and suddenly I'm getting shot because they think I'm about to take over a building


Pony seal of Approval

[tbone]

Agree. Plain as day on the recorded call.

And, as far as "innocent until proven guilty", what about the dead kid? Isn't he innocent until proven guilty? But, too late now.

Zimmerman played judge, jury, and executioner all in one.

A lot of folks get nervous when seeing someone in a hoodie, but a lot of people aslo get nervous when someone has tattoos everywhere. Where's the line?

Now, if this kid did get nervous and turned around to confront Zimmerman, one shot from Zimmerman into the ground would bring any sane person, especially one without a weapon, to think twice, and run like hell.

I sure would.

You are playing the judge and jury as well. I'm not saying he is innocent, but some of you are jumping the gun here. What, do you think there's a conspiracy with the cops here? There has to be some good reasons he hasn't been charged, at least so far.

[kernie]

The kid was walking around with a bag of Skittles. If this guy gets away with shooting him, I will be surprised and pissed off.

I admire your honesty and the courage to say it here,



How do we know that 6 year old girl wasn't throwing up gang signs at her rivals? You can't trust the media.


and your humour!

:banana:

[CBT]

I admire your honesty and the courage to say it here,





and your humour!

:banana:
Well the part about the 6 year old was to illustrate a point about the media and when to believe it or not.
As far as the "watch captain" goes, well, play stupid games win stupid prizes. I think he won some serious jail time. His azz is going to be a flesh pinata in some prison somewhere.

[guspech750]

well there is nothing like perpetuating a stereotype based on a picture.

I don't care what the circumstances, a neighborhood watch person should not have a gun, plain and simple. Look around your neighborhood and ask yourself how many stupid people there are living there, now ask youself how you would feel if those same stupid people had a gun and you were taking a late night stroll with some skittles, now imagine your young black man.

If you own a gun to protect your home or your car or your property, thats great. But going out on patrol looking for people with a gun?

Yeah, probably not a good idea.

The media shouldn't boil this down to a race thing, and neither should we. By virtue of a neighborhood watch, you watch and report the crime, you don't draw. That is the facts folks. I don't care if he is hispanic, african american, asian, or martian. It never happens if he doesn't take a gun on patrol and report the crime to the trained professionals, the police.

Ummmmm. If I am being beaten buy a 6'2" wana be bad ass, I'm pulling the trigger until the magazine is empty.

Plus it's his job to help protect the people for who he is working for. If the kid was beating on him. Well, good for the security guy. He could have been the dead guy.

Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

[CBT]

Ummmmm. If I am being beaten buy a 6'2" wana be bad ass, I'm pulling the trigger until the magazine is empty.

Plus it's his job to help protect the people for who he is working for. If the kid was beating on him. Well, good for the security guy. He could have been the dead guy.

Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

Bring a hoodie and a bag of Skittles to Louisville so i can beat your azz for walking past my Marauder, foo!!!

[kernie]

The way that law in Florida appears i can see a few people being lured to their demise.

Have a fued with someone? Easy, have him attack you put out your human-killer and blow him away.

Self defence.

You see it in old westerns, the accomplished gunfighter calls the young farm-boy yella, blows him away in a "fair" gunfight.

Self defence.

Easy.

[Haggis]

The way that law in Florida appears i can see a few people being lured to their demise.

Have a fued with someone? Easy, have him attack you put out your human-killer and blow him away.

Self defence.

You see it in old westerns, the accomplished gunfighter calls the young farm-boy yella, blows him away in a "fair" gunfight.

Self defence.

Easy.

Better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6.

[Spectragod]

Ummmmm. If I am being beaten buy a 6'2" wana be bad ass, I'm pulling the trigger until the magazine is empty.

Plus it's his job to help protect the people for who he is working for. If the kid was beating on him. Well, good for the security guy. He could have been the dead guy.

Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

Pretty much, so let's see, neighborhood watch guy is legally armed, confronts a wanna be thug, said thug proceeds to beat on him. After this good kid beats him up, do you figure he may take the gun and maybe shoot the guy he just beat up? It has happened in the past to LEO's, who's to say it wouldn't happen here?

It was a gated community, if the kid belonged, he should have just stopped and said who he was/where he lived..

As for someone shooting me when I take a walk..... first off, I don't walk around acting suspicious. And, I carry my own gun. I hope some of you who think tthis was a wrong move never have to defend yourselves or your family.

[Spectragod]

The way that law in Florida appears i can see a few people being lured to their demise.

Have a fued with someone? Easy, have him attack you put out your human-killer and blow him away.

Self defence.

You see it in old westerns, the accomplished gunfighter calls the young farm-boy yella, blows him away in a "fair" gunfight.

Self defence.

Easy.

You are clearly on drugs, good thing you can't even own a gun.

[guspech750]

Bring a hoodie and a bag of Skittles to Louisville so i can beat your azz for walking past my Marauder, foo!!!

http://img.tapatalk.com/c6e4e0fc-b01b-794e.jpg


Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

[Fosters]

The way that law in Florida appears i can see a few people being lured to their demise.

Have a fued with someone? Easy, have him attack you put out your human-killer and blow him away.

Self defence.

You see it in old westerns, the accomplished gunfighter calls the young farm-boy yella, blows him away in a "fair" gunfight.

Self defence.

Easy.

You just equated a security guy questioning someone late at night, with calling someone out/instigating an attack, and with gun fights of the old wild west...

And then capped it of with a self de-http://www.globalfenceandgate.com/images/products/narrowpkt_01.jpg jab.

Fantastic. If I had your skills I could prove Obama was born in the Andromeda galaxy and was sent here just in time for 2012 by Mayans. :bows:

[CBT]

It's on now, sonnnnnn!! You'll be crapping rainbows the whole Louisville trip after I kick that bag of Skittle straight up your butt!



http://img.tapatalk.com/c6e4e0fc-b01b-794e.jpg


Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

[Haggis]

It's on now, sonnnnnn!! You'll be crapping rainbows the whole Louisville trip after I kick that bag of Skittle straight up your butt!

Joe, wait until Case has had some Irish Plague before you woop on him.

[ctrlraven]

Speaking of media....
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/552413_10150652492926247_54501 1246_9499498_2040100835_n.jpg

[PonyUP]

Pretty much, so let's see, neighborhood watch guy is legally armed, confronts a wanna be thug, said thug proceeds to beat on him. After this good kid beats him up, do you figure he may take the gun and maybe shoot the guy he just beat up? It has happened in the past to LEO's, who's to say it wouldn't happen here?

It was a gated community, if the kid belonged, he should have just stopped and said who he was/where he lived..

As for someone shooting me when I take a walk..... first off, I don't walk around acting suspicious. And, I carry my own gun. I hope some of you who think tthis was a wrong move never have to defend yourselves or your family.

Having a gun on you while out for a walk and then being attacked, you use the gun, is one thing. Volunteering for a neighborhood watch, thinking your Johnny Badass by carrying a gun, not listening to the police telling you to stand down, confronting a suspicious individual while all you are supposed to do is report it, is another.

Let me ask this question, if this young black man was legally carrying a concealed gun, and Johnny Watch confronted him, so skittles shot him, would we have the same outcry? My bet is no.

My point is not to defend the watch captain, or the kid, it's to say that race shouldn't play a part in reporting it, or how we discuss it here. We can defend his right to carry a gun all we want, it's in the constitution and I will fight for that right. But if we are going to have that right, we also need to defend the right of the stupid as well as the intelligent to purchase that same firearm.
Think about the idiot texting on the phone while driving, swerving all over traffic at 70 narrowly missing four cars. Now imaging this same person has a gun and is your neighborhood watch captain. What defines suspicious? I'd rather have a cop judging if I am beeing suspicious or not, than some untrained volunteer that got hopped up watching Lethal Weapon.

There's idiots all over this world that do stupid things, and some of them have guns legally. When they do something stupid with that legally bought gun, I'll call them on it. This guy did something stupid. He witnessed what he judged to be suspicious behavoir, report it and follow police instructions. That's pretty simple.

walking up on what you deemed a suspicous individual in a confrontational manner being all brave cause your packing, when you shouldn't have any contact is stupid.
If he is following in the open and then the individual approaches him and things go down, it's different.

He failed as a watch Captain, it wouldn't have happend if he didn't bring a gun out on patrol. I feel for both families, both of these guys have an amount of blame that they take.

I don't get how anyone can defend the Captain, he initiated contact, it escalated and someone died, because of his initial acton of making contact. If he had done as instructed by police, the young man would be alive and the Captain could be on his couch watching Stallone movies.

One life is gone, and another is about to be ruined for what?

[cougar9150]

This was a gated community, he was watch captain. How can he do his duty of watching if he's not following/in sight?

The police, esp in Florida, doesn't have the best record to stand on... Remember the Donna Watts thing where she (the trooper) was pursuing another miami pd car at 120mph and she was told to back down as well?

Uh by reporting it to the police and then waiting for them. If you read the transcripts for the 911 he refers to the kids as a f-ing coon and states they always get away. The guy overstepped his bounds got all dog the bounty hunter on some kid who defended himself then ended up dead.

Neither was in the right but vigilante justice is still against the law. The kid did exactly as most people teach their kids by trying to walk away from a stranger harassing him who continued to follow him to the point where he felt he had to defend himself from some guy stalking through his fathers neighbor hood. I know I tell all my nieces and nephews to walk away from people they don't know if they are being confronted. Ever hear the saying stranger danger.

Let's not mention zimmermans other 100 plus calls to 911 to report suspicious people in his neighbor hood in the last year.

What you have here is someone who is the neighborhood watch captain who thought he waz Charles Bronson and was wandering the streets of the neighborhood with a loaded weapon dishing out vigilante justice.

Stand your ground doesn't mean start a confrontation then kill the other person. It's meant for you to protect yourself if someone confronts you not the other way around. If he had waited for the cops like a responsible citizen should then this whole situation would never had happened.

Not saying dude is racist just a nut job with a gun taking his neighborhood watch duty to far. I'm also not saying the kid was angel but either way it was wrong what happened and zimmerman should be in jail. Whether murder or manslaughter vigilante justice is wrong and it wouldn't have happened id dude just listened to the 911 operator. Now 2 people will lose their lives over his over-zealousness as the neighborhood watch caption. The kid and his when he goes to jail.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

[Da Dark Jedi]

Had my Marauder out last week to clean her up. The guy next door complains that I should park her next to the ally, I'm legally parked on a public street. To make this a short story he said "If I do it again, he'll have somebody F-it up so I'll have to have it towed". This is from a 58 yr old. I just moved the car, no use in getting into a shoot-out over parking. I did call police and was told "since the threat was made against my property and not me there was nothing they could do".

[sailsmen]

Personally I would not patrol a neighborhood with a gun on my person. Others have the right to do so and the right to feel differently.

Katrina displaced the entire population, including criminals.

On a Tuesday afternoon on a busy street 2 blocks from my house I witnessed Mr. Crack Dealer sell crack to Mr. CrackHeadLess. I stopped my vehicle and observed the transaction.

I was alerted to Mr. Crack Dealer because a few moments and blocks before he walked through the gas station I was buying gas at and then the dry cleaners parking lot I stopped at.

After the transaction Mr. Crack Dealer walked next to my vehicle and peered in at which time I took his picture. Mr. Crack Dealer began jogging out of the neighborhood.

I lost track for Mr. CrackHeadLess. I then knocked on every door with in a 2 block radius to alert the neighbors to what I had witnessed. One man asked a lot of details about Mr. CrackHeadLess.

Another man said he knew who Mr. CrackHeadLess was and was "...going to beat the crap out of him...".

I subsequently found out the father of Mr. CrackHeadLess threw him out of the house.

I never saw "Mr. CrackHeadLess" or "Mr. Crack Dealer" again.

I called the police and they said I would have to physicaly come down to the station during the day and fill out a report, which I did not do.

[sailsmen]

For the record I find so many posters truly amazing by their ability to "know what happened". The crime and CSI shows have made so many clairvoyant we are truly fortunate.

[kernie]

You are clearly on drugs, good thing you can't even own a gun.


Well sorry to disapoint you there sarge but im not on drugs, bad call.

And unfortunatly for you every Tom:eek:, Dick and Harry around you can carry a gun.

[Fosters]

Uh by reporting it to the police and then waiting for them. If you read the transcripts for the 911 he refers to the kids ass a f-ing coon and states they always get away. The guy overstepped his bounds got all dog the bounty hunter on some kid who defended himself then ended up dead.

Neither was in the right but vigilante justice is still against the law. The kid did exactly as most people teach their kids by trying to walk away from a stranger harrassing him who continued to follow him to the point where he felt he had to defend himself from some guy stalking through his fathers neighbor hood. I know I tell all my neices and nephews to walk away from people they don't know if they are being confronted. Ever hear the saying stranger danger.

Let's not mention zimmermans other 100 plus calls to 911 to report suspicious people in his neighbor hood in the last year.

What you have here is someone who is the neighborhood watch captain who thought he waz Charles Bronson and was wandering the streets of the neighborhood with a loaded weapon dishing out vigilante justice.

Stand your ground doesn't mean start a confrontation then kill the other person. It's meant for you to protect yourself if someone confronts you not the other way around. If he had waited for the cops like a responsible citizen should then this whole situation would never had happened.

Not saying dude is racist just a nut job with a gun taking his neighborhood watch duty to far. I'm also saying the kid was angel but either way it was wrong what happened and zimmerman should be in jail. wether murder or manslaughter vigilante justice is wrong and it wouldn't have happened id dude just listened to the 911 operator. Now 2 people will lose their lives over his overzealousness as the nieghborhood watch caption. The kid and his when he goes to jail.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

Stand your ground isn't a defense to starting a confrontation. Stand your ground in his case was a defense to getting bloodied up on the ground.

Minor difference.

What triggered the guy to get violent? Why didn't Travyon call the cops if he was bothered by this guy? Why didn't he scream stranger danger instead of pounding this guy's face in? Do you teach your nephews and nieces to bloody up said stranger?

You bring up Zimmerman's 100-plus calls to 911 in the past year. Sounds like the guy is doing his job. Would he make a better watch captain if he stayed at home watching tv and just peek thru the blinds every now and then?

[Da Dark Jedi]

As for someone shooting me when I take a walk..... first off, I don't walk around acting suspicious. And, I carry my own gun. I hope some of you who think tthis was a wrong move never have to defend yourselves or your family.


Which is why I have my A** in the house by the time street lights come on. I can't ever justify the taking of anyones life. Beer, remote control & music equals life is good.:bows:

[Fosters]

Had my Marauder out last week to clean her up. The guy next door complains that I should park her next to the ally, I'm legally parked on a public street. To make this a short story he said "If I do it again, he'll have somebody F-it up so I'll have to have it towed". This is from a 58 yr old. I just moved the car, no use in getting into a shoot-out over parking. I did call police and was told "since the threat was made against my property and not me there was nothing they could do".

I shoot my head like this: :shake:

And then I saw your location. And shook my head again.

[Fosters]

Let me ask this question, if this young black man was legally carrying a concealed gun, and Johnny Watch confronted him, so skittles shot him, would we have the same outcry? My bet is no.

You have a point, if it was another black guy shooting a white guy, it would have never made the news... like a few other examples on here that are much more horrific, that didn't...

One more:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/25/joe-oliver-george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_n_1378390.html?icid=mai ng-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec3_lnk 2%26pLid%3D146619


The New Black Panther Party, an African American organization taking its name from the radical group of the 1960s, has placed a $10,000 bounty on Zimmerman.

I guess those defending Travyon will speak against this with the same zealousness, right?

[PonyUP]

You have a point, if it was another black guy shooting a white guy, it would have never made the news... like a few other examples on here that are much more horrific, that didn't...

I think the one thing we are learning from this is that none of us were there, so we have no idea if "Skittles" confronted "Lethal Weapon" or if it was the other way around. What is so apauling is, it took about 1.8 seconds for the media to change this into a race thing. What they termed as a "white male" although we now know he isn't shooting a young black youth brings outrage. the media has a story that gets them ratings and that's all they care about.

It's one of the things that drives me nuts about hate crime legislation, all crimes are hate crimes, we can't legislate what is in someone's mind, though we try like hell.

We have the right to own guns, we even have the right to use them, but if you do the first two, you better be ready for the 3rd one, you also have the right to remain silent when prosecuted.

I find it very funny the people that own guns are so sure that when the s**t goes down, the'yll have no problem using it. And if they do use it and it turns out to be a hardened criminal with bad intentions, great you're a hero.

Now imagine your judgement is wrong, and that suspicious kid you think is about to draw a gun, is actually pulling an Iphone to take a picture and you shoot him by accident? As fully prepared as you are to take a violent life, you also have to be prepared for the time you make a mistake, like the Captain did.

Now that scenario may never happen, and you can be sure if someone breaks into your house you can and should unload on them, but out on a city street, there could be a million things that are taking place and a neighborhood watch captain is not trained for that scenario, or trained at all, he is a volunteer, he should not have a gun out on patrol, if he does, he better be prepared for the consequences. He may very well be judged by 12 instead of carried by six, but he also very well might get violated many different was in prison and ultimately be judged by 12 AND carried by 6, all of which could have been avoided, easily.

A society without the law ceases to be a society. This is just an instance where it should have been left to the law.

[CBT]

Had my Marauder out last week to clean her up. The guy next door complains that I should park her next to the ally, I'm legally parked on a public street. To make this a short story he said "If I do it again, he'll have somebody F-it up so I'll have to have it towed". This is from a 58 yr old. I just moved the car, no use in getting into a shoot-out over parking. I did call police and was told "since the threat was made against my property and not me there was nothing they could do".

I would never stand for some ******** like that.

[Da Dark Jedi]

Oprah Winfry has already started, I heard on the local radio station "How outraged she is because the guy has yet to be charged and arrested".

[CBT]

You have a point, if it was another black guy shooting a white guy, it would have never made the news... like a few other examples on here that are much more horrific, that didn't...

One more:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/25/joe-oliver-george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_n_1378390.html?icid=mai ng-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec3_lnk 2%26pLid%3D146619



I guess those defending Travyon will speak against this with the same zealousness, right?

Zimmerman, 28, a white Hispanic, shot Trayvon Martin, 17, in what he said was self defense during an altercation in the gated community Zimmerman was watching on Feb. 26 in Sanford, Florida.

Where's the white part?!?

[Da Dark Jedi]

I would never stand for some ******** like that.


It is better to yield and be thought a coward than to engage in battle. I've seen worst. Did forget to mention, this is from a man who I have witnesses stop traffic with his SUV to pass joints to people. I have more to lose then him.

[kernie]

Oprah Winfry has already started, I heard on the local radio station "How outraged she is because the guy has yet to be charged and arrested".


The way the law reads i can't see a charge coming.

Does no one else see the Florida law as an opportunity to legally snuff your rival?

[Fosters]

Zimmerman, 28, a white Hispanic, shot Trayvon Martin, 17, in what he said was self defense during an altercation in the gated community Zimmerman was watching on Feb. 26 in Sanford, Florida.

Where's the white part?!?

They can't say he was hispanic, doesn't fit the agenda, so I'd say look one word before the word "Hispanic". Which is another thing that pisses me off with the media...

Distort the facts to push whatever agenda they're after... :shake:

[MrBluGruv]

It's one of the things that drives me nuts about hate crime legislation, all crimes are hate crimes, we can't legislate what is in someone's mind, though we try like hell.


^THIS.

If a murder was deemed a hate crime, it doesn't make the victim any more or less dead, but it still serves to reinforce the mentality that we are all VERY different in ways that make us unequal and therefore the actions deemed unacceptable by law carry different consequential weights depending on who perpetrates the act; in effect, it's punishing categorical hate with categorical prejudice.


I'd like to think we as a society are beyond racism in this day and age, but to see how quickly anything that happens between two people is broken down and written off as a racial crime makes me see otherwise...

[sailsmen]

The foot pounds of a 4,200lbs, 600HP, vehicle exceeds any gun held by a human being that I know of.;)

[MrBluGruv]

The way the law reads i can't see a charge coming.

Does no one else see the Florida law as an opportunity to legally snuff your rival?

I can meet you half-way on that, for one simple reason:

In it's current interpretation, it leaves something somewhat to be desired; I believe it wouldn't be hard to "interpret" it in your favor, as you mention.

However, where I can only meet at the halfway mark is that many laws can be distorted in this way, gaming the system is the M.O. for a huge portion of the population these days it seems.

I think the law has it's place, but given the circumstances here, either this situation doesn't fall under that protection, or the law needs some tweaking in the wording department...

[sailsmen]

PonyUp - "It's one of the things that drives me nuts about hate crime legislation, all crimes are hate crimes, we can't legislate what is in someone's mind, though we try like hell."


^THIS.

If a murder was deemed a hate crime, it doesn't make the victim any more or less dead, but it still serves to reinforce the mentality that we are all VERY different in ways that make us unequal and therefore the actions deemed unacceptable by law carry different consequential weights depending on who perpetrates the act; in effect, it's punishing categorical hate with categorical prejudice.


I'd like to think we as a society are beyond racism in this day and age, but to see how quickly anything that happens between two people is broken down and written off as a racial crime makes me see otherwise...

If I "love" the person they are not as dead as if I hated the person?
It allows Gov't to decide which groups of people have which rights.

"All animals are equal and some animals are more equal than others".

"Divide and conquer".

Community Organizer.

[Fosters]

The way the law reads i can't see a charge coming.

Does no one else see the Florida law as an opportunity to legally snuff your rival?

Nope. I see it as an opportunity to legally defend yourself from getting your head pounded in. Or your car broken into (happened to me 6 times so far). Or your house broken into (happened to my parents 2x so far). If by rival you mean some guy beating me up, or breaking into my car or my house, yes, I would like to legally be able to "snuff" them in the process of protecting myself, my family or my property.

Have you ever stopped to look at where crime is highest and lowest, and what the gun laws in each place?

I'll give you a hint, there are places in the US where more Americans are killed than in Baghdad...

However, I have to commend you on steering the conversation away from the media's ability to distort facts to push an agenda, to gun laws and their "purpose" and/or effectiveness...

[Fosters]

^THIS.

If a murder was deemed a hate crime, it doesn't make the victim any more or less dead, but it still serves to reinforce the mentality that we are all VERY different in ways that make us unequal and therefore the actions deemed unacceptable by law carry different consequential weights depending on who perpetrates the act; in effect, it's punishing categorical hate with categorical prejudice.


I'd like to think we as a society are beyond racism in this day and age, but to see how quickly anything that happens between two people is broken down and written off as a racial crime makes me see otherwise...

Exactly. Plus, I wonder if they'll ever come out with love crime legislation....

[MrBluGruv]

Exactly. Plus, I wonder if they'll ever come out with love crime legislation....


Isn't that called a crime of passion? :P



WAIT A MINUTE....


If you hate someone based on race, no matter if it is unfounded, but you hate them SO MUCH that you kill them, couldn't that be called a "Crime of passion," and therefore qualify for leniency? :eek:


/legalsystembroken.....

[sailsmen]

The USA is one of the few, possibly the only, countries that recognizes the individuals right to defend themselves as a right by our own existance and there fore not a right that can be given or taken away by Gov't.

Most countires you have no right to defend your self for that is a right usurped by Gov't.

I have personaly seen the results of what a small group of violent individuals can do to a large unarmed population.

Many a gun hating Liberal became a life time member of the NRA after Katrina.

[GAMike]

So 911 issued instructions to Zimmerman to "cease the chase"..... The questions I have, are
1. What can/should have the police charge him with if he does not comply with the order of a 911 Operator?

2. Did he comply with that order, only to have the kid become the aggressor in the situation?

There still is alot we don't know in terms of how this situation escalated....

I will say that imho the media has an agenda to re-elect President Obama to another 4 year term..... He is not as popular among black voters as he was back in 2008.... Stirring up racial BS is a tool the media will use in attempts to unify the black vote for Obama..... Wonder why they want him back sooooo badly when it seems most in America want him out of office ASAP...... Palace intrigue...Gotta hate it.....:rolleyes:

[kernie]

Nope. I see it as an opportunity to legally defend yourself from getting your head pounded in. Or your car broken into (happened to me 6 times so far). Or your house broken into (happened to my parents 2x so far). If by rival you mean some guy beating me up, or breaking into my car or my house, yes, I would like to legally be able to "snuff" them in the process of protecting myself, my family or my property.

Have you ever stopped to look at where crime is highest and lowest, and what the gun laws in each place?

I'll give you a hint, there are places in the US where more Americans are killed than in Baghdad...

However, I have to commend you on steering the conversation away from the media's ability to distort facts to push an agenda, to gun laws and their "purpose" and/or effectiveness...


You know you would think that the threat of being blown away by some caveman with a gun would deter the change stealing vermin.

I'm alot older than you and have never had a problem with my vehicles despite the lowlifes not fearing the caveman.

What gives?

[MrBluGruv]

There still is alot we don't know in terms of how this situation escalated....

I think that objective judgement hinges completely on that point in time, which coincidentally seems to be the only point in time that's still almost impossible to find information on. I'm not usually into conspiracy, but I get the sneaky suspicion this may be on purpose just to keep this....game....going. It also may explain why the police haven't charged the shooter yet with anything, they don't have anything substantive to bring against him (not in a legal sense anyways)


In my opinion, seeing what information has come to surface about both of the involved individuals, my impression of the essence of the REAL story would headline something like

"Lunatic neighborhood watch captain kills teenage thug in a battle of ego."

And it all comes together to create a socio-political shitstorm of epic proportions.

[Fosters]

The USA is one of the few, possibly the only, countries that recognizes the individuals right to defend themselves as a right by our own existance and there fore not a right that can be given or taken away by Gov't.

Most countires you have no right to defend your self for that is a right usurped by Gov't.

I have personaly seen the results of what a small group of violent individuals can do to a large unarmed population.

Many a gun hating Liberal became a life time member of the NRA after Katrina.

:beer:

I have lived thru the fall of the eastern bloc, and you sir are spot on. Maybe I am the gun toting caveman, but I'll be the gun toting caveman that won't have to go thru that again...

[Fosters]

You know you would think that the threat of being blown away by some caveman with a gun would deter the change stealing vermin.

I'm alot older than you and have never had a problem with my vehicles despite the lowlifes not fearing the caveman.

What gives?

Maybe in Canada they're afraid they might have to end up in the socialized healthcare system. :flamer: :lol:

[MERCMAN]

Looks like Al Sharpton will be getting some more frequent flyer miles in his account. :(

[kernie]

Maybe in Canada they're afraid they might have to end up in the socialized healthcare system. :flamer: :lol:


Oh that has to be it!

The universal healthcare that every westernized country except the USA has and would never give up willingly, ya thats it!

LOL.

[Fosters]

Oh that has to be it!

The universal healthcare that every westernized country except the USA has and would never give up willingly, ya thats it!

LOL.

Every westernized country except the USA is also pretty socialist and won't give that up either because of the entitled mentality; doesn't necessarily mean we all want that.

I've lived in both healthcare systems, there's no comparison, Freedom > Socialism, on any day of the week and twice on days ending in Y.

[kernie]

Every westernized country except the USA is also pretty socialist and won't give that up either because of the entitled mentality; doesn't necessarily mean we all want that.

I've lived in both healthcare systems, there's no comparison, Freedom > Socialism, on any day of the week and twice on days ending in Y.


You have lived in both?

You have hinted at a eastern euopean background, hardly a legitimate westernized nation.

Show me a westerized country who wants to adopt the American model, don't be silly.

Your background is where?

[Fosters]

You have lived in both?

You have hinted at a eastern euopean background, hardly a legitimate westernized nation.

Show me a westerized country who wants to adopt the American model, don't be silly.

Your background is where?

It is eastern european, you know, one of those countries that had 40+ years of socialism, not just the beginnings when stuff is all cool and free...

You can probably ask some of your countrymen who come to the US to have medical procedures done if they want to adopt our system... Or you can just wait until your socialized system is bankrupting the country and ends up at 40+% of the budget...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/05/31/us-health-idUSTRE64U3XO20100531

Oh, nvm, 2 years too late... Like I said, wait until it's all in and matured...

[GAMike]

Don't mind me.... I'm just another caveman with a gun:) If anything, it has made me a calmer person, knowing I have that capability at my disposal.....

Wish I could say the same for the folks that think a weapon gives them superhuman badass powers, or deputizes them to some degree other than citizen.....

One last thing....... My parents taught me to respect authority as a young man..... I don't get the sense that Trayvon's father (saw him on TV last night) offered the same guidance to his son...... I get the sense it was more like, "don't ever let nobody play you for a sucker".......

How do you know what a "sucker" is, if you have not been taught right from wrong and a childs place in the order of things...

Not saying i'm 100% spot on, but it was just what I thought when I listened to him for the 1st. time....

[sailsmen]

After Katrina several of my gun hating Liberal friends went out of their way to tell me they became lifetime members of the NRA.

At the gun ranges after Katrina you would not believe the variety of demographics I saw at the gun range.

When resources are stretched there is a fine line between civilization and anarchy.

[sailsmen]

A place I have frequented many a time. It is prime realestate on the corner of St. Charles Ave and Carrolton Ave;
Uptown businesses rebound from Katrina's chaos
By Richard A. Webster Staff Writer “City Business”
2005-10-01 5:54 PM CST

NEW ORLEANS - After 32 chaotic days of desolation and darkness, clashes with armed gangs of looters and long hours spent repairing damage from the bruising blows of Hurricane Katrina, Art Depodesta reopened his restaurant at Cooter Brown’s on Thursday evening.
Paul Cosma, owner of the neighboring Uptown Auto Specialists, said despite New Orleans "ghost town" status business at Cooter Brown’s has been brisk.
"All the SWAT guys and cops from out of town are coming in," Cosma said. "Last night 30 of them came by in an hour. But who knows what’s going to happen in the long run. It’s the whole uncertainty of everything. None of us know what's going to happen."
Depodesta said all he can do is get his place up and running and hope for the best.
"The colleges are a big part of our business so without them it will definitely hurt," Depodesta said. "This was going to be a record year for us … but if we can hold out until after the first of the year business will pick up again."
Depodesta pays $30,000 a year for insurance and $5,500 a month in utilities, but he said it is the rising price of gas that has him most worried.
"Everything comes in by truck and if they have to pay more for gas the delivery prices go up which means I could have to jack the price of a burger up to $10 and if that happens no one gets paid," Depodesta said.
The structural damage to the Cooter Brown’s building was limited though the roof peeled off directly above Depodesta’s newly renovated second floor apartment. He and Cosma patched it up only to have Hurricane Rita undo all of their work.
The real damage occurred inside the restaurant’s freezers, Cosma said.
"Can you imagine $20,000 worth of oysters, roasts, pastramis, hams, burgers, chickens and every kind of food you have at a restaurant like that? Can you imagine freezers full of this kind of food gone bad? It was pretty rude."
Depodesta and Cosma sprayed the freezers with bleach using a pump sprayer, then pressure washed them. After all of that work, two of the freezers blew up when the electricity returned.
Due to the loss of his freezers and a limited staff, Cosma said Depodesta will offer a limited menu.
"He'll be doing a limited menu only because many of his workers don't even have a place to live so he can’t bring his whole crew in,” Cosma said. "I loaned him my truck so he can make food runs out to his suppliers in Harahan."
It has been hard work repairing and rebuilding his business but nothing compared to what took place in the aftermath of Katrina, said Depodesta.
Protecting the store
The trouble started almost immediately after Katrina passed, even before the first levee broke.
After the heaviest winds died to a breeze, Depodesta and Cosma drove to the St. Charles Tavern on St. Charles Avenue - armed with guns to defend themselves.
"Paul had his Sig and I had my .45," Depodesta said. "We're all strapped up and the guys in the Tavern are handing us beers through the window. They had their weapons out, too."
And that’s when Depodesta said he saw them — stolen cars tearing up and down St. Charles Avenue packed with masked men pointing guns at innocent people stumbling down sidewalks in search of information.
"Besides the flooding the biggest problem we had were these idiots after the storm," Depodesta said. "They were like animals. The cops are trying to rescue people and these idiots are going around shooting people. There aren’t enough cops to begin with and they don’t get paid anything anyway so they couldn’t help. The one thing I learned was don’t count on anyone but yourself. And never go to a shelter."
Depodesta and Cosma returned to their businesses and prepared for the worst. It wasn't long before gangs of thugs appeared on Carrollton Avenue.
"They started coming down the street and when they got close I let loose with a 12 gauge and they went running," Depodesta said. "One guy came back in a truck with a gun but we had the drop on him. I had a buddy here with an HK and I had my 12 gauge. When the guy in the truck saw that he decided he didn’t want to play anymore. Let’s just put it that way."
Things proceeded to get weirder, Depodesta said.
"They stole a damn forklift, drove it down to Rite Aid and lifted open the gates. Me and Paul went down there and cut all of the wires out of it. The last thing I want is a guy driving around here with a forklift."
A few days after the storm, Cosma grabbed a pair of bolt cutters from a suspected looter.
"First the kid said it was his uncle’s, then he said he was going to come back and shoot us," Depodesta said. "I said, 'Go ahead man. It’s like martial law. In fact there is no law so come on back here because I know damn well I’m a better shot than you and have better weapons.' I made it through the storm and had no flooding and then I got to watch some animals tear apart the place I built? I don’t think so."
When the military arrived four days after Katrina made landfall, Depodesta said they attempted to confiscate his weapons.
"I made it clear that wasn’t going to happen and they left me alone."
Return to normal?
Cosma re-opened Uptown Auto Specialists on Monday. There was a lot of debris to be cleaned up but no structural damage.
With the hundreds of broken down and waterlogged vehicles scattered around New Orleans, it would appear that auto repair shops are primed for a banner season, but Cosma said that may not be the case.
"It could be a total bust this time," he said. "All these cars have been sitting around in this (stuff) for so long. Typically when we have a storm cars are maybe two days in the water and you get them drug in and we take them apart immediately. But these cars have been sitting in the water or been wet for a month. A lot more cars are going to be totaled than in previous times."
Cosma, however, said his most pressing concern is providing financially for the 10 people he employs.
"As an employer you’re responsible for all of your employees so how would you feel as an employer if you couldn't provide to your employees what you promised when you hired them? I feel like (crap). I’m responsible for 10 people and there's only so much I can do.
"We're coming back and we'll see what happens but if there's no business I'll have to let them go. But I don't foresee that happening and I don't want to do that to happen because it's hard to get good employees. The toughest thing is I've been in business for over 20 years and I don't know what's going to happen."

Copyright © 2005, New Orleans Publishing Group. All Rights Reserved. 111 Veterans Blvd., Suite 1440 Metairie, LA 70005
Phone: 504.834.9292 Fax: 504.832.3550 Email: mail@nopg.com Terms

[MOTOWN]

Funny how so many closed minded people can make a ******** assumption of a kid they didnt know or never met!

The very problem with this country to much prejudice

[Spectragod]

Which is why I have my A** in the house by the time street lights come on. I can't ever justify the taking of anyones life. Beer, remote control & music equals life is good.:bows:

Bury your head in the sand and drink the kool aid, all is well, the rest of us with defend your rights for you.

[MrBluGruv]

Funny how so many closed minded people can make a ******** assumption of a kid they didnt know or never met!

The very problem with this country to much prejudice


I don't know about others, but my judgement of this young man came from sources supplied by his own family representatives as well as retrievals of information from his own account. That's as good as it can be for those that didn't know him personally, and if that's not good enough, then why even have this in the public venue, if we aren't allowed to make decisions about how we interpret his actions?

Loss of life is terrible, but by no means was this some angel, hardly the death of innocence that so many people are playing this out to be...

[sailsmen]

Theres a lot I can say but won't. I don't want to relive it.

Keep in mind thousands upon thousands of people went to extreme lengths to help strangers, putting themselves in danger.

Having said that a small group, I estimate 1,500 or so, terorized and brutalized thousands.

For the deniers, listen to Brian Williams interview 5 years latter, particularly the 7 minute mark, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asYWzCHNQKs

Several of my relatives got out by joining the caravan Brian Wiliams refers to.

[sailsmen]

Funny how so many closed minded people can make a ******** assumption of a kid they didnt know or never met!

The very problem with this country to much prejudice

Just calling him a "white Hispanic" show the level of hate in some of the Press.

[cougar9150]

Stand your ground isn't a defense to starting a confrontation. Stand your ground in his case was a defense to getting bloodied up on the ground.

Minor difference.

What triggered the guy to get violent? Why didn't Travyon call the cops if he was bothered by this guy? Why didn't he scream stranger danger instead of pounding this guy's face in? Do you teach your nephews and nieces to bloody up said stranger?

You bring up Zimmerman's 100-plus calls to 911 in the past year. Sounds like the guy is doing his job. Would he make a better watch captain if he stayed at home watching tv and just peek thru the blinds every now and then?

Ya the confrontation never would have happened if he listened to the dispatcher and stopped following him. No this dude wanted to be the Punisher, neighborhood hero, or whatever you want to call it and pursued him against the directions of the dispatcher intent on dishing out some kind of vigilante justice or trying to be the hero that detained the suspicious persons until the cops got there. When 911 asked him for his location so the police could find him when they arrived at his complex he said tell the cops to call me for my location when they get here because he had no intention of not following the kid.

Yes I tell my nieces and nephews to walk away, run away (as Travon did at first until Zimmerman kept following him), do what ever you can to get out of the situation but if you get cornered or there is no way out of it defend yourself like your life counts on it. What am I supposed to tell them, roll up on the ground and just wait for it to pass, no you have every right to defend yourself even against the nieghborhood watch captain.

100 plus calls doesn't sound like he doing his job but is someone with to much time on his hands and his nose in to many other peoples business. Seem to me his was a bit overzealous and wanted to be a cop or cowboy but couldn't so he road around the neighborhood packing heat looking for trouble.

The only 2 things Zimmerman did that was right was call the cops and he followed the number one rule of someone who packs heat. If you pull it out shoot to kill. Unfortunately for him and this kid his decision making between those 2 steps was piss poor.

Now the kid is dead and this guy has to live with the fact that he took another humans life in a situation that could have easily been controlled if he just followed the law and let the police do their job instead of continuing to follow and harass the kid who had every right to be on the street even though this guy thought he was suspicious.

Push me hard enough I'm always going to push back and that what happened here with these 2 and it ended one life and ruined the other not to mention the friends and families of both people.



A society without the law ceases to be a society. This is just an instance where it should have been left to the law.

Amen


Nope. I see it as an opportunity to legally defend yourself from getting your head pounded in. Or your car broken into (happened to me 6 times so far). Or your house broken into (happened to my parents 2x so far). If by rival you mean some guy beating me up, or breaking into my car or my house, yes, I would like to legally be able to "snuff" them in the process of protecting myself, my family or my property.


The law is meant to protect yourself if someone is assaulting you or your loved ones and you are in fear for yours or their life, not if someone is breaking into you car. You can not use your property as viable reason for using the stand your ground law. I can already see you shooting the guy in your driveway and dragging him back into your house.

I think it doesn't matter which side of the story you read, they are both slanted toward either the left or right agenda. I don't think Zimmerman deserves life in jail but he should at least be charged with manslaughter because he continued to escalate the situation even after they said to stop pursuing the suspicious persons. If he had stopped and waiting at the bushes by the clubhouse like the dispatcher said the kid never would have attacked him out of fear and we wouldn't be talking about this.

The biggest thing that I hope comes out of it is refinements to the law. You need to have the right to defend yourself but there also needs to be a finer definition of when that is. There have been similar cases to this case that have not garnered the attention of the national media that prove it needs to be revised. I live in Florida and have seen this come up more than once and the looseness in the law just allows to much room for people to get all dirty harry.

I'm all for people toting guns around and am working on getting my concealed permit now but that doesn't mean once I do I'm going to patrol my neighborhood and confront every person I think is suspicious. No it will be there as my last resort and I will always walk away if I have the chance to. If it came to it yes I would use a gun but as I said only as a last resort because to me I just wouldn't want the blood of another human being on my hands unless I knew 100% I had absolutely no choice.

Enough of this thread for me the whole situation is screwed up and both sides view are so slanted either way no one will listen to each other. The media sensationalizes every thing and is the main reason I watch the BBC for my world news. Over there they regulate the media and the news must be reported as news and not the reporter or networks spin on it.

[MOTOWN]

I don't know about others, but my judgement of this young man came from sources supplied by his own family representatives as well as retrievals of information from his own account. That's as good as it can be for those that didn't know him personally, and if that's not good enough, then why even have this in the public venue, if we aren't allowed to make decisions about how we interpret his actions?

Loss of life is terrible, but by no means was this some angel, hardly the death of innocence that so many people are playing this out to be...

The kids character isnt on trail! the azzhole who shot and killed an unarmed child should be!, there is no justification what so ever for gunning down an unarmed kid!
The kid was minding his own when mr wana be deemed him suspicious and pursued him, after being ordered not to by 911!

how in the hell is that justified???? its not

If it was your seed things would be looked at slightly different eh?

Murder is just that F**cking Murder!

[MrBluGruv]

The kids character isnt on trail! the azzhole who shot and killed an unarmed child should be!, there is no justification what so ever for gunning down an unarmed kid!
The kid was minding his own when mr wana be deemed him suspicious and pursued him, after being ordered not to by 911!

how in the hell is that justified???? its not

If it was your seed things would be looked at slightly different eh?

Murder is just that F**cking Murder!

I don't deny the neighborhood watch guy was out of line. Personally, I think he's not mentally stable.

But there is a lot more to the situation than the moment the gun was fired, especially a lot more than the picture you are painting of the situation.

[MOTOWN]

I don't deny the neighborhood watch guy was out of line. Personally, I think he's not mentally stable.

But there is a lot more to the situation than the moment the gun was fired, especially a lot more than the picture you are painting of the situation.

You dont know your Laws son, this is 2nd degree Murder! ive been in law enforcement almost as long as you have been alive

The facts speak loud and clear you cant justify this mans actions, if he had simply listened to 911 we wouldnt be having this conversation Period!

[sailsmen]

A "vigilante" does not call 911, give his name and a description of the victim his location and then kill his victim in front if a witness. I know I watched Charles Bronson in Death Wish!

The vigilante does not get his nose smashed, the back of head smashed, grass stains on his back.

If Trayvon where "white" or a "white hispanic" would anyone care?

This is currently a lynching in the making. I say we at least let the statements of those who were there and the physical evidence be processed before we hang anybody.

[MOTOWN]

A "vigilante" does not call 911, give his name and a description of the victim his location and then kill his victim in front if a witness. I know I watched Charles Bronson in Death Wish!

The vigilante does not get his nose smashed, the back of head smashed, grass stains on his back.

If Trayvon where "white" or a "white hispanic" would anyone care?

This is currently a lynching in the making. I say we at least let the statements of those who were there and the physical evidence be processed before we hang anybody.

Could you be any more clueless???????

[MrBluGruv]

You dont know your Laws son, this is 2nd degree Murder! ive been in law enforcement almost as long as you have been alive

The facts speak loud and clear you cant justify this mans actions, if he had simply listened to 911 we wouldnt be having this conversation Period!

Can you tell me, in detail, the timeline of events between the phone call where he was told to cease pursuit of the young man and the point at which he shot and killed him?

I'm not sure anyone has.

If I could see that, I could make a more informed decision.

Instead, the public appears to be trotting out cries against prejudice in the midst of passing judgement without being fully informed either.

Might I remind you, this "child" you speak of would hardly qualify as tiny. At 17, he was larger than I am at 22, and I'm not exactly skin and bones.

[sailsmen]

You dont know your Laws son, this is 2nd degree Murder! ive been in law enforcement almost as long as you have been alive

The facts speak loud and clear you cant justify this mans actions, if he had simply listened to 911 we wouldnt be having this conversation Period!

The FL Statue is listed below. Please explain how it is "2nd degree Murder"?

The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(3) When a person is killed in the perpetration of, or in the attempt to perpetrate, any:
(a) Trafficking offense prohibited by s. 893.135(1),

(b) Arson,

(c) Sexual battery,

(d) Robbery,

(e) Burglary,

(f) Kidnapping,

(g) Escape,

(h) Aggravated child abuse,

(i) Aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult,

(j) Aircraft piracy,

(k) Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb,

(l) Carjacking,

(m) Home-invasion robbery,

(n) Aggravated stalking,

(o) Murder of another human being,

(p) Resisting an officer with violence to his or her person, or

(q) Felony that is an act of terrorism or is in furtherance of an act of terrorism,

by a person other than the person engaged in the perpetration of or in the attempt to perpetrate such felony, the person perpetrating or attempting to perpetrate such felony is guilty of murder in the second degree, which constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

[MrBluGruv]

This is currently a lynching in the making.

This is the truth.

At the moment, regardless of his crimes, this neighborhood watch captain IS a dead man walking. I would be VERY surprised if he wasn't under constant protection at this point.

[sailsmen]

Could you be any more clueless???????

I am not blinded by hate.

[MOTOWN]

The FL Statue is listed below. Please explain how it is "2nd degree Murder"?

The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(3) When a person is killed in the perpetration of, or in the attempt to perpetrate, any:
(a) Trafficking offense prohibited by s. 893.135(1),

(b) Arson,

(c) Sexual battery,

(d) Robbery,

(e) Burglary,

(f) Kidnapping,

(g) Escape,

(h) Aggravated child abuse,

(i) Aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult,

(j) Aircraft piracy,

(k) Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb,

(l) Carjacking,

(m) Home-invasion robbery,

(n) Aggravated stalking,

(o) Murder of another human being,

(p) Resisting an officer with violence to his or her person, or

(q) Felony that is an act of terrorism or is in furtherance of an act of terrorism,

by a person other than the person engaged in the perpetration of or in the attempt to perpetrate such felony, the person perpetrating or attempting to perpetrate such felony is guilty of murder in the second degree, which constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

Attempting to explain anything to you is the definition of insanity!:mad2:

[MrBluGruv]

The FL Statue is listed below. Please explain how it is "2nd degree Murder"?

The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(3) When a person is killed in the perpetration of, or in the attempt to perpetrate, any:
(a) Trafficking offense prohibited by s. 893.135(1),

(b) Arson,

(c) Sexual battery,

(d) Robbery,

(e) Burglary,

(f) Kidnapping,

(g) Escape,

(h) Aggravated child abuse,

(i) Aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult,

(j) Aircraft piracy,

(k) Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb,

(l) Carjacking,

(m) Home-invasion robbery,

(n) Aggravated stalking,

(o) Murder of another human being,

(p) Resisting an officer with violence to his or her person, or

(q) Felony that is an act of terrorism or is in furtherance of an act of terrorism,

by a person other than the person engaged in the perpetration of or in the attempt to perpetrate such felony, the person perpetrating or attempting to perpetrate such felony is guilty of murder in the second degree, which constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

If the death of the young man is deemed "unlawful", and assuming there was no resistance on the part of the young man, wouldn't it be considered second-degree murder as it was committed in the midst of aggravated stalking?


There is too much unknown to really make these judgements.

[sailsmen]

By CLULESS - From MSNBC - http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/26/10868250-thousands-march-in-protest-to-florida-hearing-on-trayvon-martin-slaying?GT1=43001

"Zimmerman's account emerged for the first time Monday in a report by The Orlando Sentinel. Quoting unidentified "law enforcement authorities," the Sentinel reported that Zimmerman told police that Trayvon Martin knocked him down with a single punch and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times before the shooting — an account that police said witnesses have corroborated.

Zimmerman said he was walking back to his SUV when Martin approached him from behind, according to the Sentinel's report, which Sanford police confirmed Monday afternoon.

The two exchanged words before Martin decked him with a punch to the nose and began beating him, Zimmerman told police. He said he then shot Martin in self-defense.

Witnesses said they heard someone cry out in distress, some of them telling NBC News and other news organizations that it was Martin. But police sources told the Sentinel their evidence indicated it was Zimmerman.

Dateline NBC interviews woman who saw aftermath

One witness told police he saw Martin pounding Zimmerman on the ground. This witness was certain it was Zimmerman who was crying for help, the Sentinel reported.

When police arrived less than two minutes later, Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose and had a swollen lip and bloody lacerations to the back of his head, the newspaper reported. Police said Zimmerman wasn't badly injured and didn't seek treatment until the next day.

ABC News reported separately that Zimmerman told police that Martin also tried to take his gun.

In a statement, Sanford police said the Sentinel's report was "consistent with the information provided to the State Attorney's office by the police department." It didn't address the ABC report.

Zimmerman's attorney, Craig Sonner, has said he could invoke Florida's "stand-your-ground" law, which provides significant leeway for people to use deadly force if they feel their lives are in danger."

[CBT]

It is better to yield and be thought a coward than to engage in battle. I've seen worst. Did forget to mention, this is from a man who I have witnesses stop traffic with his SUV to pass joints to people. I have more to lose then him.

You're talking to someone who spent 20 years in the military. Violence IS the answer! Period, lol. Now, I'm not you and I don't have anything against how you handle your situations, but that doesn't mean it can't make me mad that someone bullies you because you wash your car. Something tells me he now thinks he can do and say whatever he wants to you. It will only get worse.

[sailsmen]

If the death of the young man is deemed "unlawful", and assuming there was no resistance on the part of the young man, wouldn't it be considered second-degree murder as it was committed in the midst of aggravated stalking?


There is too much unknown to really make these judgements.

It's in the context of the first paragraph. "The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084."
Basically you kill someone in the commision of a specified felony.

[sailsmen]

Attempting to explain anything to you is the definition of insanity!:mad2:

Which one in "a" thru "q" apply? Please "insanity" wants to know.

[MOTOWN]

It's in the context of the first paragraph. "The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084."
Basically you kill someone in the commision of a specified felony.

Im sorry, where did you get your law degree??:bs:

[Da Dark Jedi]

Bury your head in the sand and drink the kool aid, all is well, the rest of us with defend your rights for you.


What rights of mine are you defending??? I live in a city where you report shots fired to 911 and it takes 40 minutes and longer to respond. The people who want to abide by the Law is considered breaking the law if we arm ourselves. If we Chicagoans discharge a weapon within city limits we get the criminal record. Back in 95 I marched for the right to bare arms at Daley Plaza. Back in 89 my uncle was on duty when he called off a police chase via radio. The female officer did not comply and a 22yr old woman was shot dead, by the same officer (love triangle). Father Phlger a powerful gun control lobbiest is out every week protesting against guns here. Perhaps where you live and the badge you carry gives you that right. The law will put more effort in finding you're killer than they would mine. Besides the family of mines that are on Chicago police feel the same way (active & retired). Better yet tell the 85yr old lady who was bullied for week by the youths who would break here windows and kick in her door on their way home from school. She got her deceased husbands gun came out on the porch and was hit in the head by a brick. She shot at the leader hit the kid in the arm and was arrested. CPD didn't say she fires in self defense. Her friend had to bring the ladys meds to jail for fear she would die with out them.

[Spectragod]

Well sorry to disapoint you there sarge but im not on drugs, bad call.

And unfortunatly for you every Tom:eek:, Dick and Harry around you can carry a gun.

It is not unfortunate that people can legally carry a gun here in the United States. What is unfortunate is that someones life was taken, color doesn't matter, the facts matter.

Do I think both parties share some responsibility, yes. The media has made this into a political/racial thing. It is neither.

The neighborhood watch guy was well within the law and his rights to own and carry a gun, the skittles kid, if he were visiting a gated community, should have been signed in somewhere as a visitor, otherwise, he was trespassing on private property.

When confronted, he should have complied with the neighborhood watch guy, he apparently chose to run, whether the neighborhood watch guy chased after him, who knows, or maybe mr. skittles came back to start a fight. The result was skittles on top of the watch guy, hurting him to the point he felt his life was in danger, we know how it ended.

A couple of points......

Failure to comply with a dispatcher is not a crime in the U.S. as most are civilians, not sworn LEO's.

Said individual had done the neighborhood watch thing for some time, if crime were not an issue there, why the neighborhood watch?

I'm glad the man called the police a 100 times, he was doing what he was supposed to, skittles kid should have called 911 from his cell phone if he felt he was in danger, not his girlfriend.

Since most of those posting have never been in a neighborhood watch program, or a LEO, you don't really have a clue what happens in instances like these, I have seen ***** go from bad to worse in the drop of a hat.

Sort of along the same lines as this, had a local LEO shoot a guy yesterday because he wouldn't show him his hands, was acting in a suspicious and aggressive manner and wouldn't comply, bad guy lived, so far, should we prosecute the LEO? Oh, the suspect was white, so was the LEO, so Al and Jessie won't be visiting soon, B.O. won't be coming back claiming him to be like a son if he had one.

The bottom line, if you don't interact with the mopes of society on a daily basis, you don't have a dog in this hunt, quit armchair quarterbacking it, you have never nor will you be in that situation, if you are the victim to one of the many that think it is ok to rob/rape/kill/maim, you will hope that someone like Mr. Zimmerman is around to help, the police can't be everywhere, no one wants to get involved, how about when the crime is knocking at your door, turn the tv up, and hope?

[CBT]

Cops are thugs!!!

28298

Thug Fife, LMAO!!!

[Da Dark Jedi]

You're talking to someone who spent 20 years in the military. Violence IS the answer! Period, lol. Now, I'm not you and I don't have anything against how you handle your situations, but that doesn't mean it can't make me mad that someone bullies you because you wash your car. Something tells me he now thinks he can do and say whatever he wants to you. It will only get worse.


He already have a criminal record spent a few or so years in prison (Ohio). It was over a parking space. Just want to stay a "Law Abiding citizen", talk is cheap. Cassy this is the same guy used profane language agaisnt the building manager about the tenants in one of the five buildings the guy manages. Don't want to say he's a nut case.

[sailsmen]

Im sorry, where did you get your law degree??:bs:

Just answer my question as the expert you say you are.*

Are you saying the first paragraph does not exists?

*
You dont know your Laws son, this is 2nd degree Murder! ive been in law enforcement almost as long as you have been alive

The facts speak loud and clear you cant justify this mans actions, if he had simply listened to 911 we wouldnt be having this conversation Period!

[sailsmen]

If the death of the young man is deemed "unlawful", and assuming there was no resistance on the part of the young man, wouldn't it be considered second-degree murder as it was committed in the midst of aggravated stalking?


There is too much unknown to really make these judgements.

From MUSCA LAW CRIMNAL DEFENSE

"Aggravated Stalking Defense

Aggravated stalking is an offense which involves stalking another person and making a credible threat to their safety or to the safety of their family members or loved ones. Specifically defined, stalking involves willfully and maliciously harassing or following another person. Harassment in particular means engaging in a course of conduct directed at a particular person that causes the person emotional distress and serves no legitimate purpose. Most often, stalking involves a number of continuous acts committed over a period of time, even a short time period.

The act that separates aggravated stalking from simple stalking is the “credible threat�. Florida Statutes define a credible threat as a threat of bodily injury or death to another person that reasonably causes the person to fear for his or her life."

[MOTOWN]

Just answer my question as the expert you say you are.*

Are you saying the first paragraph does not exists?

*

If you need an answer to your question, you are far beyond any insight i can give you!

Murder is Murder! ive had my say, and im done with this thread which is exactly the reason i dont usually get involved in these political:bs:threads!

[PonyUP]

It is not unfortunate that people can legally carry a gun here in the United States. What is unfortunate is that someones life was taken, color doesn't matter, the facts matter.

Do I think both parties share some responsibility, yes. The media has made this into a political/racial thing. It is neither.

The neighborhood watch guy was well within the law and his rights to own and carry a gun, the skittles kid, if he were visiting a gated community, should have been signed in somewhere as a visitor, otherwise, he was trespassing on private property.

When confronted, he should have complied with the neighborhood watch guy, he apparently chose to run, whether the neighborhood watch guy chased after him, who knows, or maybe mr. skittles came back to start a fight. The result was skittles on top of the watch guy, hurting him to the point he felt his life was in danger, we know how it ended.

A couple of points......

Failure to comply with a dispatcher is not a crime in the U.S. as most are civilians, not sworn LEO's.

Said individual had done the neighborhood watch thing for some time, if crime were not an issue there, why the neighborhood watch?

I'm glad the man called the police a 100 times, he was doing what he was supposed to, skittles kid should have called 911 from his cell phone if he felt he was in danger, not his girlfriend.

Since most of those posting have never been in a neighborhood watch program, or a LEO, you don't really have a clue what happens in instances like these, I have seen ***** go from bad to worse in the drop of a hat.

Sort of along the same lines as this, had a local LEO shoot a guy yesterday because he wouldn't show him his hands, was acting in a suspicious and aggressive manner and wouldn't comply, bad guy lived, so far, should we prosecute the LEO? Oh, the suspect was white, so was the LEO, so Al and Jessie won't be visiting soon, B.O. won't be coming back claiming him to be like a son if he had one.

The bottom line, if you don't interact with the mopes of society on a daily basis, you don't have a dog in this hunt, quit armchair quarterbacking it, you have never nor will you be in that situation, if you are the victim to one of the many that think it is ok to rob/rape/kill/maim, you will hope that someone like Mr. Zimmerman is around to help, the police can't be everywhere, no one wants to get involved, how about when the crime is knocking at your door, turn the tv up, and hope?

So as a LEO, are you advocating that neighborhood watch people arm themselves? Because that sounds like one of the worse ideas I've ever heard of.
Neighborhood watches take place in more than just crime riddled areas. Naperville Illinois has a neighborhood watch and one of the lowest crime rates in the nation.
We are losing site of a simple fact, neighborhood watches are designed to get the community involved in watching for crime. Not stopping it, and not playing John McClane. Observe and report. If that was all the Captain did, none of this would be happening.
I don't care about the kids previous school problem for grass and graffiti, on this night he was a guy walking down the street with a package of skittles until Commando escalated it.
If Rambo would have observed and reported, we wouldn't be here. He went too far, plain and simple. Did Skittles play a part? You betcha, but the beginning of this started with Columbo.
And for the record I have been part of a neighborhood watch, every LEO involved in the programs I've been in says a gun is a terrible idea and only leads to mistakes like this, report what you see and nothing more. Never try to get involved and be a hero, only bad things happen. Report suspicious behavior, take notes for details and get the police involved.
Scarface failed on multiple counts and now has to live with having taken an innocent life. At the very least he should be charged with Manslaughter


Pony seal of Approval

[sailsmen]

If you need an answer to your question, you are far beyond any insight i can give you!

Murder is Murder! ive had my say, and im done with this thread which is exactly the reason i dont usually get involved in these political:bs:threads!

Obviously you cannot answer a very simple question, which one "a" through "q".

Instead you personally attack me.

[MOTOWN]

Obviously you cannot answer a very simple question, which one "a" through "q".

Instead you personally attack me.

Move on bud! nothing to see here! life is too short anyways!

[Spectragod]

So as a LEO, are you advocating that neighborhood watch people arm themselves? Because that sounds like one of the worse ideas I've ever heard of.
Neighborhood watches take place in more than just crime riddled areas. Naperville Illinois has a neighborhood watch and one of the lowest crime rates in the nation.
We are losing site of a simple fact, neighborhood watches are designed to get the community involved in watching for crime. Not stopping it, and not playing John McClane. Observe and report. If that was all the Captain did, none of this would be happening.
I don't care about the kids previous school problem for grass and graffiti, on this night he was a guy walking down the street with a package of skittles until Commando escalated it.
If Rambo would have observed and reported, we wouldn't be here. He went too far, plain and simple. Did Skittles play a part? You betcha, but the beginning of this started with Columbo.
And for the record I have been part of a neighborhood watch, every LEO involved in the programs I've been in says a gun is a terrible idea and only leads to mistakes like this, report what you see and nothing more. Never try to get involved and be a hero, only bad things happen. Report suspicious behavior, take notes for details and get the police involved.
Scarface failed on multiple counts and now has to live with having taken an innocent life. At the very least he should be charged with Manslaughter


Pony seal of Approval

I never said for him to carry anything, I said he was within the law in his state to carry a firearm.

Yes, neighborhood watches do take place in a variety of neighborhoods.

You keep referring to this guy in a variety of names other than his own, would you like that if we referred to you in the same manner? No, so let's keep it simple, and, nice.

If the guy did observe, and the kid came back and jumped on him, then what? We don't know all the facts, just like we don't know all the facts as to what's happening in the middle east.

You have this guy convicted of manslaughter and don't know all the facts of the case, yet you call him names like Columbo/Rambo/John McClane, when you yourself are acting just like those guys.

So you have been part of a neighborhood watch, how long ago, things have gotten worse, trust me on this. Have you ever made a felony arrest, ever been in a knife fight, gun fight, a fight for your life at any time? If you ever are, and you have to take someones life to save yours, you had best remember this moment and how you think manslaughter is an acceptable charge without any facts of the case.

What really matters here are the facts, most of which most of us are not privy to. Once again, armchair quarterbacking, get all the facts, then make a decision. But based on Florida law, I don't see an indictment any time soon, although the new black panthers has put a 10k bounty on this guy, that sounds perfectly legal.:rolleyes:

[sailsmen]

Move on bud! nothing to see here! life is too short anyways!

Good answer, thank you.

[MercNasty]

Zimmerman dumb ass shouldnt of been following the young guy anyway. I can see if he caught Trayvon Martin committing a crime and then followed him but not just following him because he looked suspicious. Lets say Trayvon had a gun and then he shot Zimmerman because he was chasing him, different outcome then i bet. Lets put ourselves in Trayvon's shoes before we make these comments. A guy you dont know appears to be following you and then he chases you, when he catches you are you going to stop and ask questions or are you going to try to beat his ass? I would beat that ass. Now if im Zimmerman acting as neighborhood watch am i following people that appear to be suspicious to me? hell no, i might watch them from my porch or window but im not following him.

[jerrym3]

"Neigborhood watch" is not the same as "law enforcement".

Even trained police officers can sometimes make mistakes.

Yet, Zimmerman's out in the street, on guard, carrying a loaded weapon.

The most critical piece of information is that the fight came after Zimmerman's call to 911, and the police told him not to follow.

Zimmerman then became the agressor. (Ironically, if at that point Martin killed Zimmerman with a knife, he could justifiably claim he felt threatened for his life, especially since Zimmerman had a gun.)

I'm sure that "attitude" played a role at some point, but who's?

"He tried to take my gun" is no defense.

Who wouldn't? You're fighting with someone who has a weapon, and you'd let him keep it?

If I'm not doing anything wrong, and somebody starts asking me what I'm doing in his neighborhood, I might get a little offended and not respond very politely, and I am much more "mature" than Martin.

[MercNasty]

man PonyUP is hitting everything right on the head, i couldnt agree with him more. All his comments are straight forward and justified in my eyes unlike some of these borderline racial comments.

[Fosters]

Oops... there goes the innocent kid defense:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager


On Feb. 26, when Zimmerman first spotted Trayvon, he called police and reported a suspicious person, describing Trayvon as black, acting strangely and perhaps on drugs.

Zimmerman got out of his SUV to follow Trayvon on foot. When a dispatch employee asked Zimmerman if he was following the 17-year-old, Zimmerman said yes. The dispatcher told Zimmerman he did not need to do that.

There is about a one-minute gap during which police say they're not sure what happened.

Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police.

Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.

Zimmerman began yelling for help.


One witness, who has since talked to local television news reporters, told police he saw Zimmerman on the ground with Trayvon on top, pounding him — and was unequivocal that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.

[MrBluGruv]

The CRITICAL part of this is what happened between the phone call from Zimmerman to the police and the beginning of the scuffle between the two.

If in fact Zimmerman decided to leave the scene, especially before even actually engaging Martin directly, and THEN Martin approached Zimmerman and physically attacked him, unceasingly to the point where Zimmerman felt he was in fear for his life, this would mean that Martin was the aggressor in the physical confrontation and Zimmerman was within his rights to do what he did. The act alone of Zimmerman following Martin on the street cannot be grounds enough for the battery Martin inflicted upon him.

[Spectragod]

"Neigborhood watch" is not the same as "law enforcement".
That is correct.

Even trained police officers can sometimes make mistakes.
That is correct.

Yet, Zimmerman's out in the street, on guard, carrying a loaded weapon.
That is correct. Legally too.

The most critical piece of information is that the fight came after Zimmerman's call to 911, and the police told him not to follow.
That is incorrect. They told him he didn't need to follow, big difference

Zimmerman then became the agressor. (Ironically, if at that point Martin killed Zimmerman with a knife, he could justifiably claim he felt threatened for his life, especially since Zimmerman had a gun.)

Did he, or did Martin?

I'm sure that "attitude" played a role at some point, but who's?

I would say that is 100% correct.

"He tried to take my gun" is no defense.

I haven't heard that yet, source?

Who wouldn't? You're fighting with someone who has a weapon, and you'd let him keep it?

Nope, but at that point he would be under arrest, so he wouldn't need it anymore.

If I'm not doing anything wrong, and somebody starts asking me what I'm doing in his neighborhood, I might get a little offended and not respond very politely, and I am much more "mature" than Martin

I am too, and wouldn't be offended.


man PonyUP is hitting everything right on the head, i couldnt agree with him more. All his comments are straight forward and justified in my eyes unlike some of these borderline racial comments.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, you cannot convict someone on your gut feelings, no one is being "racial".




Oops... there goes the innocent kid defense:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager

Oh gee, then what.... what is going to happen when the tox reports come back, and the rest of the witness reports are released, I can't believe that the media would have blown this way out of proportion.

[Spectragod]

The CRITICAL part of this is what happened between the phone call from Zimmerman to the police and the beginning of the scuffle between the two.

If in fact Zimmerman decided to leave the scene, especially before even actually engaging Martin directly, and THEN Martin approached Zimmerman and physically attacked him, unceasingly to the point where Zimmerman felt he was in fear for his life, this would mean that Martin was the aggressor in the physical confrontation and Zimmerman was within his rights to do what he did. The act alone of Zimmerman following Martin on the street cannot be grounds enough for the battery Martin inflicted upon him.

DING DING DING..... we have a winner.

[CBT]

I still can't believe they are calling him a white Hispanic. WTF?!

[Fosters]

Oh gee, then what.... what is going to happen when the tox reports come back, and the rest of the witness reports are released, I can't believe that the media would have blown this way out of proportion.

Blowing it out of proportion is one thing; and arguably, it's a human life that was taken; it IS a big deal regardless with what side of the fence your opinion might rest. What I have a problem with, is the fact omitting, truth stretching, bs flying articles. The "white hispanic" deal. The circulating of old childhood pictures part. The forgetting to mention the guy was full of blood when the police got there. etc. It really is sickening; and to think these are the media outlets (and I'm including both left and right in this one) that we get our information regarding all other issues from...

:shake:

[Spectragod]

Just came across this little article, I do not have a stand one way or the other, as I have no proof to the truth, but it is certainly interesting reading, and would explain some things I had heard from people in Florida.

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/1939/020/Was_Trayvon_Martin_a_Drug_Deal er.html

[CBT]

So he had tats and weed. Not seeing the problem here.

[PonyUP]

I never said for him to carry anything, I said he was within the law in his state to carry a firearm.

Yes, neighborhood watches do take place in a variety of neighborhoods.

You keep referring to this guy in a variety of names other than his own, would you like that if we referred to you in the same manner? No, so let's keep it simple, and, nice.

If the guy did observe, and the kid came back and jumped on him, then what? We don't know all the facts, just like we don't know all the facts as to what's happening in the middle east.

You have this guy convicted of manslaughter and don't know all the facts of the case, yet you call him names like Columbo/Rambo/John McClane, when you yourself are acting just like those guys.

So you have been part of a neighborhood watch, how long ago, things have gotten worse, trust me on this. Have you ever made a felony arrest, ever been in a knife fight, gun fight, a fight for your life at any time? If you ever are, and you have to take someones life to save yours, you had best remember this moment and how you think manslaughter is an acceptable charge without any facts of the case.

What really matters here are the facts, most of which most of us are not privy to. Once again, armchair quarterbacking, get all the facts, then make a decision. But based on Florida law, I don't see an indictment any time soon, although the new black panthers has put a 10k bounty on this guy, that sounds perfectly legal.:rolleyes:

I completely disagree with the bounty and find that deplorable. You don't like the nicknames, that's alright, in fine with calling him Zimmerman.
No we don't know all the facts, which is pretty much my point, this thread started by, at least it seemed to me, defending Zimmerman, and as I started I was trying to illustrate the point that he at the very least deserves a share of the blame.
Yes I have been in a knife fight in a bar when I was younger, I did not have a knife, nor did I need a gun to diffuse the situation. I got cut and it scarred, and it was someone that had too much to drink and had a jack Daniels tough guy syndrome.
All of which has nothing to do with this.
The fact remains he should have simply just reported it and left it alone. No one was in immediate danger. He didn't, he went against the advice of the dispatcher, which is reckless and someone got killed. If he had done exactly as told by the dispatcher, then was attacked and had to defend his life, I would be defending him, but he didn't, which was stupid anyway you slice it.
It was legal for him to carry a gun on the watch, yes, that doesn't mean it was a good idea.
The average citizen is an idiot, myself included, the average citizen being armed in a variety of situations is even stupider.
It's like these bars that got the law passed in Nashville I believe that now allow concealed weapons, that's a good idea, get you load while your armed in a bar.
I'll defend the right to bear arms, that doesn't mean everyone should do so


Pony seal of Approval

[PonyUP]

man PonyUP is hitting everything right on the head, i couldnt agree with him more. All his comments are straight forward and justified in my eyes unlike some of these borderline racial comments.

Thank you sir, I like that we have been able to debate this on a good level because I think it is an interesting situation. I like hearing other points of view and I think a clear headed debate, for the most part, is a good thing


Pony seal of Approval

[jerrym3]

Originally Posted by jerrym3
"Neigborhood watch" is not the same as "law enforcement".
That is correct.

Even trained police officers can sometimes make mistakes.
That is correct.

Yet, Zimmerman's out in the street, on guard, carrying a loaded weapon.
That is correct. Legally too.

Issue is "on guard". He's not going to get his gas tank filled.

The most critical piece of information is that the fight came after Zimmerman's call to 911, and the police told him not to follow.
That is incorrect. They told him he didn't need to follow, big difference

Why is there a big difference? If a cop tells me I don't need to do something, does that mean I should do it anyway?

Zimmerman then became the agressor. (Ironically, if at that point Martin killed Zimmerman with a knife, he could justifiably claim he felt threatened for his life, especially since Zimmerman had a gun.)

Did he, or did Martin?

Who followed who with a weapon?

I'm sure that "attitude" played a role at some point, but who's?

I would say that is 100% correct.

"He tried to take my gun" is no defense.

I haven't heard that yet, source?

Mentioned somewhere above in one of the posts.

Who wouldn't? You're fighting with someone who has a weapon, and you'd let him keep it?

Nope, but at that point he would be under arrest, so he wouldn't need it anymore.

Who would be under arrest? Two guys fighting, one has a gun, what would the guy wothout a gun do?

If I'm not doing anything wrong, and somebody starts asking me what I'm doing in his neighborhood, I might get a little offended and not respond very politely, and I am much more "mature" than Martin

I am too, and wouldn't be offended.

[guspech750]

What rights of mine are you defending??? I live in a city where you report shots fired to 911 and it takes 40 minutes and longer to respond. The people who want to abide by the Law is considered breaking the law if we arm ourselves. If we Chicagoans discharge a weapon within city limits we get the criminal record. Back in 95 I marched for the right to bare arms at Daley Plaza. Back in 89 my uncle was on duty when he called off a police chase via radio. The female officer did not comply and a 22yr old woman was shot dead, by the same officer (love triangle). Father Phlger a powerful gun control lobbiest is out every week protesting against guns here. Perhaps where you live and the badge you carry gives you that right. The law will put more effort in finding you're killer than they would mine. Besides the family of mines that are on Chicago police feel the same way (active & retired). Better yet tell the 85yr old lady who was bullied for week by the youths who would break here windows and kick in her door on their way home from school. She got her deceased husbands gun came out on the porch and was hit in the head by a brick. She shot at the leader hit the kid in the arm and was arrested. CPD didn't say she fires in self defense. Her friend had to bring the ladys meds to jail for fear she would die with out them.

Yep. Chicago sucks. If the city were to catch fire. I would not hesitate to turn off the water. Should rename it Nazicago.


Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

[Spectragod]

Thank you sir, I like that we have been able to debate this on a good level because I think it is an interesting situation. I like hearing other points of view and I think a clear headed debate, for the most part, is a good thing


Pony seal of Approval


Originally Posted by jerrym3
"Neigborhood watch" is not the same as "law enforcement".
That is correct.

Even trained police officers can sometimes make mistakes.
That is correct.

Yet, Zimmerman's out in the street, on guard, carrying a loaded weapon.
That is correct. Legally too.

Issue is "on guard". He's not going to get his gas tank filled.

The most critical piece of information is that the fight came after Zimmerman's call to 911, and the police told him not to follow.
That is incorrect. They told him he didn't need to follow, big difference

Why is there a big difference? If a cop tells me I don't need to do something, does that mean I should do it anyway?

Zimmerman then became the agressor. (Ironically, if at that point Martin killed Zimmerman with a knife, he could justifiably claim he felt threatened for his life, especially since Zimmerman had a gun.)

Did he, or did Martin?

Who followed who with a weapon?

I'm sure that "attitude" played a role at some point, but who's?

I would say that is 100% correct.

"He tried to take my gun" is no defense.

I haven't heard that yet, source?

Mentioned somewhere above in one of the posts.

Who wouldn't? You're fighting with someone who has a weapon, and you'd let him keep it?

Nope, but at that point he would be under arrest, so he wouldn't need it anymore.

Who would be under arrest? Two guys fighting, one has a gun, what would the guy wothout a gun do?

If I'm not doing anything wrong, and somebody starts asking me what I'm doing in his neighborhood, I might get a little offended and not respond very politely, and I am much more "mature" than Martin

I am too, and wouldn't be offended.

I can email you guys a PDF of the police report, many witness's, which would explain why Mr. Zimmerman is not under arrest.

[PonyUP]

I can email you guys a PDF of the police report, many witness's, which would explain why Mr. Zimmerman is not under arrest.

That would be great, and if I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it. I would be very interested to find out more about this. Can you shoot it in a pm?

By the way, I find it very refreshing that though we have been on opposite sides of the fence on this, we were still able to discuss it maturely absent of race and name calling, so cheers to you and the other people on this thread that have kept it above board.

No matter where you land on this, two lives effectively ended a month ago, and it is a sad story any way you slice it.


Pony seal of Approval

[PonyUP]

Read the police report (thanks Spectragod) and the observations of the responding officer do support that Zimmerman was definitely on the bad side of a physical altercation.

There are many intangibles that we do not know, and may never know.

Was this an over zealous community activist? Or was it a concerned citizen that was a victim of circumstance.

We'll never know all the facts, but I think the vital thing is that we continue to talk about it.

I wish this didn't happen to Zimmerman or Martin, two lives are ruined and it mostly seemed senseless and didn't need to happen.

But none of us were in that exact situation and have no idea what we would have done.


Pony seal of Approval

[tbone]

So, to Summarize:

Guilty until proven innocent.

"White Hispanic" is evil. Just plain "Hispanic" is not to be reported on. (In my entire life, I have never heard the description "white hispanic" until now. Have you?)

Gun control is lacking in the USA which leads to innocent people being murdered by "Community Organizers".

Canada has a superior society of law abiding, freedom loving citizens and there are never any problems there. (See London, Ontario)

Socialized medicine is superior. (That's why everyone in the entire world comes here, to the United States of America for their most urgent, high tech, lifesaving healthcare.)

Minority on white crime is NOT to be reported on since it doesn't fit with the liberal, democratic agenda. (Sounds racist, doesn't it? But it is the truth. Sad, but true.)


Longwinded diatribes by some members on this issue are not included in this summary, for obvious reasons. :)

[dohc324ci]

I still can't believe they are calling him a white Hispanic. WTF?!

The government classification persons of Hispanic origins is white Hispanic for Latinos.

Race:
White

Ethnic category:
Non-Hispanic
Hispanic

http://www.naphsis.org/NAPHSIS/files/ccLibraryFiles/Filename/000000001003/Race%20and%20Ethnicity.pdf

[tbone]

The government classification persons of Hispanic origins is white Hispanic for Latinos.

Race:
White

Ethnic category:
Non-Hispanic
Hispanic

http://www.naphsis.org/NAPHSIS/files/ccLibraryFiles/Filename/000000001003/Race%20and%20Ethnicity.pdf


Whatever is convenient at the time by the lamestream media/Democrats is sufficient.....

[CBT]

So, to Summarize:

Guilty until proven innocent.

"White Hispanic" is evil. Just plain "Hispanic" is not to be reported on. (In my entire life, I have never heard the description "white hispanic" until now. Have you?)

Gun control is lacking in the USA which leads to innocent people being murdered by "Community Organizers".

Canada has a superior society of law abiding, freedom loving citizens and there are never any problems there. (See London, Ontario)

Socialized medicine is superior. (That's why everyone in the entire world comes here, to the United States of America for their most urgent, high tech, lifesaving healthcare.)

Minority on white crime is NOT to be reported on since it doesn't fit with the liberal, democratic agenda. (Sounds racist, doesn't it? But it is the truth. Sad, but true.)


Longwindeddiatribes by some members on this issue are not included in this summary, for obvious reasons. :)

When the truth hurts, just change the truth and the pain goes away, DUH! :rolleyes:

[sailsmen]

DIVIDE and CONQUER. All Animals are equal and some Animals are more equal than others.

MEYERS: The anthem of the civil rights movement has always been which side are you on? You choose sides. You either choose for racial reconciliation. Or you choose racial polarization. You choose racial harmony or you choose racial lunacy, and deification of skin color. The friends and allies and the mentors of Barack Obama chose racial idiocy. They chose the deification of skin color. They chose Farrakhan to emulate, to advocate for -- to say that Farrakhan, the apostle of anti-Semitism and black racism is supposedly and somehow the spokesperson of African-Americans. He’s not. So any time you have the empowerment of black ideology, you have -- you have, I think, the endorsement of racism.

Now, one more -- one more -- one more point. And that is that Obama's sin is the sin of not just hugging, it's the sin of omission because he’s the intellectual and the intellectual must -- the scholarship of the intellectual must refute -- refute racial idiocy. You cannot be silent!


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannity/2012/03/13/words-derrick-bell-0#ixzz1q5zyBkHI

Michael Meyers is President and Executive Director of the New York Civil Rights Coalition (NYCRC), which he co-founded in 1986.
Meyers assumed the post of NYCRC Executive Director in 1991 from his senior staff position in the New Jersey Department of Higher Education, where he had served as Special Assistant to the Chancellor of Higher Education, T. Edward Hollander. Meyers took his B.A. from Antioch College in Yellow Springs, OH and his J.D. from Rutgers University School of Law. He has spent his entire professional career working in the fields of civil rights, civil liberties, law and education, and urban affairs, and, as such, is regarded as an expert on civil rights matters and race relations. Born in Harlem, Michael Meyers knows first-hand the ghetto experience which, as he puts it, “contributes to the defeat of the human spirit; the only way to end the ghetto is to get out of it".

http://nycivilrights.org/executive-director


July 28, 2010
.
Our Divisive President

Barack Obama promised a new era of post-partisanship. In office, he's played racial politics and further split the country along class and party lines.y PATRICK H. CADDELL AND DOUGLAS E. SCHOEN

During the election campaign, Barack Obama sought to appeal to the best instincts of the electorate, to a post-partisan sentiment that he said would reinvigorate our democracy. He ran on a platform of reconciliation—of getting beyond "old labels" of right and left, red and blue states, and forging compromises based on shared values.

President Obama's Inaugural was a hopeful day, with an estimated 1.8 million people on the National Mall celebrating the election of America's first African-American president. The level of enthusiasm, the anticipation and the promise of something better could not have been more palpable.

And yet, it has not been realized. Not at all.

Rather than being a unifier, Mr. Obama has divided America on the basis of race, class and partisanship. Moreover, his cynical approach to governance has encouraged his allies to pursue a similar strategy of racially divisive politics on his behalf.
Associated Press
The 'Beer Summit': President Barack Obama, right, and Vice President Joe Biden, left, have a beer with Harvard scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr., second from left, and Cambridge, Mass. police Sgt. James Crowley in the Rose Garden of the White House, July 30, 2009.
.
We have seen the divisive approach under Republican presidents as well—particularly the administrations of Richard Nixon and George W. Bush. It was wrong then, and it is wrong now. By dividing America, Mr. Obama has brought our government to the brink of a crisis of legitimacy, compromising our ability to address our most important policy issues.


We say this with a heavy heart. Both of us share the president's stated vision of what America can and should be. The struggle for equal rights has animated both of our lives. Both of us were forged politically during the crucible of the civil rights movement. Having worked in the South during the civil rights movement, and on behalf of the ground-breaking elections of African-American mayors such as David Dinkins, Harold Washington and Emanuel Cleaver, we were deeply moved by Mr. Obama's election.

The first hint that as president Mr. Obama would be willing to interject race into the political dialogue came last July, when he jumped to conclusions about the confrontation between Harvard Prof. Henry Louis "Skip" Gates and the Cambridge police.

During a press conference, the president said that the "Cambridge police acted stupidly," and he went on to link the arrest with the "long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately."

In truth, the Gates incident appears to have had nothing to do with race—a Cambridge review committee that investigated the incident ruled on June 30 that there was fault on both sides.

Sen. Jon Kyl (R., Ariz.) has said the president told him in a closed-door meeting that he would not move to secure the border with Mexico unless and until Congress reached a breakthrough on comprehensive immigration reform. That's another indication Mr. Obama is willing to continue to play politics with hot-button issues.

Add in the lawsuit against the Arizona immigration law and it's clear the Obama administration is willing to run the risk of dividing the American people along racial and ethnic lines to mobilize its supporters—particularly Hispanic voters, whose backing it needs in the fall midterm elections and beyond.

As the Washington Post reported last week, two top White House strategists, speaking on condition of anonymity, have indicated that "the White House plans to use the immigration debate to punish the GOP and aggressively seek the Latino vote in 2012."

On an issue that has gotten much less attention, but is potentially just as divisive, the Justice Department has pointedly refused to prosecute three members of the New Black Panther Party for voter intimidation at the polls on Election Day 2008.

It is the job of the Department of Justice to protect all American voters from voter discrimination and voter intimidation—whether committed by the far right, the far left, or the New Black Panthers. It is unacceptable for the Department of Justice to continue to stonewall on this issue.

During the 2008 presidential campaign, Mr. Obama's campaign emphasized repeatedly that his minister, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, was being unfairly stereotyped because of racially incendiary sound bites that allegedly did not reflect the totality of his views. In the Gates incident and others, Mr. Obama has resorted to similar forms of stereotyping.

Even the former head of the Civil Rights Commission, Mary Frances Berry, acknowledged that the Obama administration has taken to polarizing America around the issue of race as a means of diverting attention away from other issues, saying: "the charge of racism is proving to be an effective strategy for Democrats. . . . Having one's opponent rebut charges of racism is far better than discussing joblessness."

The president had a unique opportunity to focus on overarching issues of importance to whites and blacks. He has failed to address the critical challenges. He has not used his bully pulpit to emphasize the importance of racial unity and the common interest of poor whites and blacks who need training, job opportunities, and the possibility of realizing the American Dream. He hasn't done enough to address youth unemployment—which in the white community is 23.2% and in the black community is 39.9%.

Mr. Obama has also cynically divided the country on class lines. He has taken to playing the populist card time and time again. He bashes Wall Street and insurance companies whenever convenient to advance his programs, yet he has been eager to accept campaign contributions and negotiate with these very same banks and corporations behind closed doors in order to advance his political agenda.

Finally, President Obama also exacerbated partisan division, and he has made it clear that he intends to demonize the Republicans and former President George W. Bush in the fall campaign. In April, the Democratic National Committee released a video in which the president directly addressed his divide-and-conquer campaign strategy, with an appeal to: "young people, African-Americans, Latinos, and women who powered our victory in 2008 [to] stand together once again."


President Obama's divisive approach to governance has weakened us as a people and paralyzed our political culture. Meanwhile, the Republican leadership has failed to put forth an agenda that is more positive, unifying or inclusive. We are stronger when we debate issues and purpose, and we are all weaker when we divide by race and class. We will pay a price for this type of politics.
Mr. Caddell served as a pollster for President Jimmy Carter. Mr. Schoen, who served as a pollster for President Bill Clinton, is the author of "The Political Fix" (Henry Holt, 2010).

[CBT]

Even the former head of the Civil Rights Commission, Mary Frances Berry, acknowledged that the Obama administration has taken to polarizing America around the issue of race as a means of diverting attention away from other issues, saying: "the charge of racism is proving to be an effective strategy for Democrats. . . . Having one's opponent rebut charges of racism is far better than discussing joblessness."

She sounds like a racist.

[Fosters]

The government classification persons of Hispanic origins is white Hispanic for Latinos.

Race:
White

Ethnic category:
Non-Hispanic
Hispanic

http://www.naphsis.org/NAPHSIS/files/ccLibraryFiles/Filename/000000001003/Race%20and%20Ethnicity.pdf

So do you happen to know of anyone who's 50% white, 43.75% arab and 6.25% black, that we should be calling a white non-hispanic or a white African or whatever? :lol:

[Spectragod]

so do you happen to know of anyone who's 50% white, 43.75% arab and 6.25% black, that we should be calling a white non-hispanic or a white african or whatever? :lol:

b.o.







..............

[kernie]

So, to Summarize:

Guilty until proven innocent.

"White Hispanic" is evil. Just plain "Hispanic" is not to be reported on. (In my entire life, I have never heard the description "white hispanic" until now. Have you?)

Gun control is lacking in the USA which leads to innocent people being murdered by "Community Organizers".

Canada has a superior society of law abiding, freedom loving citizens and there are never any problems there. (See London, Ontario)

Socialized medicine is superior. (That's why everyone in the entire world comes here, to the United States of America for their most urgent, high tech, lifesaving healthcare.)

Minority on white crime is NOT to be reported on since it doesn't fit with the liberal, democratic agenda. (Sounds racist, doesn't it? But it is the truth. Sad, but true.)


Longwinded diatribes by some members on this issue are not included in this summary, for obvious reasons. :)


Sorry, still too stooopid.

[CBT]

So do you happen to know of anyone who's 50% white, 43.75% arab and 6.25% black, that we should be calling a white non-hispanic or a white African or whatever? :lol:
Maaaaaaaaaybe.

28304

[Haggis]

Maaaaaaaaaybe.

28304

Thanks Casey, part of a clementine just came out my nose. :lol:

[jerrym3]

If I were investigating this case, I'd like to know where the fight took place in relationship to Martin's destination.

Did Martin doubleback to look for trouble, or to get to his destination?

Could have an impact on who the real agressor was.

But, this all could have been stopped if Zimmerman would just have waited for the police.

[CBT]

If I were investigating this case, I'd like to know where the fight took place in relationship to Martin's destination.

Did Martin doubleback to look for trouble, or to get to his destination?

Could have an impact on who the real agressor was.

But, this all could have been stopped if Zimmerman would just have waited for the police.


The stalker became the stalked and shot someone when he started getting his ass kicked.

[Da Dark Jedi]

Martin was visiting his father who lives there (in the community). Maybe all the residence who lives there should report their visitors to the watch people. I don't think so!

[Fosters]

Nope. I see it as an opportunity to legally defend yourself from getting your head pounded in. Or your car broken into (happened to me 6 times so far). Or your house broken into (happened to my parents 2x so far). If by rival you mean some guy beating me up, or breaking into my car or my house, yes, I would like to legally be able to "snuff" them in the process of protecting myself, my family or my property.

Have you ever stopped to look at where crime is highest and lowest, and what the gun laws in each place?

I'll give you a hint, there are places in the US where more Americans are killed than in Baghdad...

However, I have to commend you on steering the conversation away from the media's ability to distort facts to push an agenda, to gun laws and their "purpose" and/or effectiveness...

Add 1 to my house being broken into... just got word my place in Arizona (i'm in the process of moving) got broken into... :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

[sailsmen]

The stalker became the stalked and shot someone when he started getting his ass kicked.

Is that called self defense? It appears the Fl Stalker Law does not afford a penalty to either party.

The last time I was attacked and had my attacker on the ground with me over him, while he claimed his arm was broken from his "posse" running over his arm while high tailing it away, I stopped when he screamed for help. Apparently his "posse" didn't think much of him either.

I agreed to let him up only after he said "UNCLE". Apparently he had no idea what "UNCLE" meant because I kept having to repeat it to him so he could get it right.

Had I pummeled him on the ground while he no longer posed a direct threat to me, as evident by him claiming injury and screaming for help, would I have been considered the attacker or still considered the attacked?:confused:

[Fosters]

Is that called self defense? It appears the Fl Stalker Law does not afford a penalty to either party.

The last time I was attacked and had my attacker on the ground with me over him, while he claimed his arm was broken from his "posse" running over his arm while high tailing it away, I stopped when he screamed for help. Apparently his "posse" didn't think much of him either.

I agreed to let him up only after he said "UNCLE". Apparently he had no idea what "UNCLE" meant because I kept having to repeat it to him so he could get it right.

Had I pummeled him on the ground while he no longer posed a direct threat to me, as evident by him claiming injury and screaming for help, would I have been considered the attacker or still considered the attacked?:confused:

My feelings right now... I think they're no longer a threat after they're eliminated from the gene pool. :mad2:

[tbone]

Sorry, still too stooopid.

It must suck to be you.

[tbone]

SANFORD, Florida – A slain U.S. teenager and the neighborhood watch captain who shot and killed him exchanged words before the teen punched him in the nose and began banging the man's head on the ground, according to the watch captain's account of the confrontation that led to the shooting.




I told you.

[kernie]

It must suck to be you.


Well after reading your last 20 or so posts trying to goad me into an arguement without responce from me well...

Stalkers suck, go away.

[tbone]

Well after reading your last 20 or so posts trying to goad me into an arguement without responce from me well...

Stalkers suck, go away.

Don't flatter yourself. Believe me, you're not worth it. And you suck at debating because you can't refute anything I say with facts or logic. You just run and hide.

When you say stupid crap, I'm going to call you out on it. By the way, when was the last time you posted anything about a Marauder?

[Bluerauder]

By the way, when was the last time you posted anything about a Marauder?

:rofl: Noticed that ^^^^ too, did you??? :rofl: