US Postal Service doesn't want Obamacare :)

[guspech750]

Saw this on TCG forum. Made me laugh and pretty funny how even a government agency doesn't want Obamacare.

Too short an article though.

http://nation.foxnews.com/us-postal-service/2012/03/30/us-postal-service-opt-out-government-provided-health-insurance


Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

[knine]

I wonder if he will give an opt-out like he has other companies. Interesting, but I think it is an endorsement of the whole Obama-care mess. I look for the Supreme court to neuter the law and make it un-deployable. How can it be constitutional for a Governemnt to REQUIRE you to purchase a product?...then, whats next? If they get away with this, they can FORCE you to get rid of your gas burning car and buy an electric.

[CBT]

Why isn't this crap in the shout box!:mad2:

[tbone]

I wonder if he will give an opt-out like he has other companies. Interesting, but I think it is an endorsement of the whole Obama-care mess. I look for the Supreme court to neuter the law and make it un-deployable. How can it be constitutional for a Governemnt to REQUIRE you to purchase a product?...then, whats next? If they get away with this, they can FORCE you to get rid of your gas burning car and buy an electric.


The government has been in the business of ruining the design of cars and trucks and making them incredibly, prohibitively expensive for a long, long time. The only requirement they passed that was good is seat belts. The rest is all crap. Including air bags.
If he could get away with it, Oblamer would outlaw gas burning cars faster than you can say "Dictatorship".

[knine]

The government has been in the business of ruining the design of cars and trucks and making them incredibly, prohibitively expensive for a long, long time. The only requirement they passed that was good is seat belts. The rest is all crap. Including air bags.
If he could get away with it, Oblamer would outlaw gas burning cars faster than you can say "Dictatorship".
...and if the Supreme Court agrees with a Government mandate called Obama-care, where the Government could FORCE you to buy a product, he could do it.:mad2:

[CBT]

I think it will be kicked to the curb. I'm all for people having affordable health care, and I don't agree with insurance companies dropping you just because they don't want to pay, but I cannot fathom the concept of getting away with forcing everyone to buy it.

[knine]

I can't wait until Nov 6th (election day)

[guspech750]

I can't wait until Nov 6th (election day)

Can only hope the rest of the country can see through Obamas smoke and mirrors.:(


Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

[tbone]

I think it will be kicked to the curb. I'm all for people having affordable health care, and I don't agree with insurance companies dropping you just because they don't want to pay, but I cannot fathom the concept of getting away with forcing everyone to buy it.


Yep, you don't need 2700 pages to make healthcare reform work.

1. No pre-existing condition exclusions and you can't be dropped. You take the good with the bad.
2. Tort reform. Plaintiff pays all legal fees if they lose case. Caps on awards. Lawyers can be heavily fined for frivolous cases.
3. Allow insurance companies to compete across state lines.
4. Create non taxable health care savings accounts.

Done.:burnout:

[prchrman]

Can only hope the rest of the country can see through Obamas smoke and mirrors.:(


Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

They don't, i believe he will get a second term.

[sailsmen]

The most violent projects in the history of New Orleans are being rebuilt/built at $230,000 to $330,000 per UNIT excluding land. Anyone who thinks Gov't can do Healthcare for less than the private sector is an IDIOT.

[knine]

Wait until the "Death panels" are formed if this aBOMAnation goes thru.

[sailsmen]

"Death Panels" stop the right wing lies. There are no "Death Panels".

There is a "Benefits Commission", one of over 149 new commissions, consisting of appointed "experts" who by Law will determine what healthcare insurance will cover, more importantly what is not covered.

Obamacare makes it illegal for a healthcare provider to render a service that is not approved by the "Benefits Commission.

If I buy a health insurance policy that does not cover a benefit my Dr. has recommended I can pay for it myself, borrow the money to pay for it, work out a payment plan, have it done at a Chairity facility, hold a fund raiser, etc. If I am "broke" I can apply for Medicaid. All hospitals that accept Medicare are required to stabilize me in the event I require immediate care.

Insurance is best utilized to mitigate the economic consequences of an unforseen fortuitios event.

Example I do not insure my pencils for I lose them and they wear out.

Obamacare requires "free" benefits that are not insurance. This is to drive up the costs of insurance to force Socialized Medecine, i.e. Single Payer.

About half of Healthcare is spent in the last 6 months of a persons life. The electronic records is to enable each person to be assigned an acctuarially determined "Death Date". 6 months prior to your death date the only "care" you will recieve is to prevent you from suffering.

[sailsmen]

In Obama's own words.

Obama - “I happen to be a proponent of a single payeruniversal health care plan.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE&feature=related

Obama said, “I don't think that we can make judgments based on people's spirit. …your mom know, that you know what, maybe this isn't going to help, maybe you're better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller."

The "rich" obama speaks of will go to the new medical industry that will pop up in the Bahamas. Elected officials will get special approval for procedures not covered by the Benefits Commission.

A friends dad is in his 80's and lives in the UK, single payer. Bad knee but due to his age he is placed at the back of the list, now due to the wait, over 6 months he has a bad back and is a cripple.

Both my mom and her husband injured their knees and were operated on with in 3 weeks. Both are in the same age bracket as my friends dad in the UK. They both walk around and you ouwld never know they have a bad knee.

[knine]

A panel that denies your operation because it costs too much and you die makes it a Death panel, just like the current insurance companies have......or like when an insurance company drops you when you contract an expensive problem. I don't like the private insurance companies when they do this, and the Government will just be an a much larger scale.

Also stated by the commander in chief "Under my plan, energy costs would necessarily skyrocket". With the latest EPA regulations (President's executive order) on current coal plants which will force many to close (8 in Illinois already announced), please explain how the costs will not skyrocket. It's about supply and demand, just like gas prices which are also thru the roof. Gas was only 1.78 a gallon (national average) when this failure was sworn into office, today the national average is 4.43 up 9 cents from 4.34 just last week, 4.21 last month. His statement about gas prices when he was running? "I wouldn't mind seeing 5, 6 or 10 dollar a gallon gas, I'd just like to see a more gradual rise in prices". Well, we're on our way.

Health care law is now in front of the Supreme Court. If they uphold the Government mandate that the Government can FORCE you to purchase a private sector product they can FORCE you to buy anything, like an electric car. Think about it.

[tbone]

A panel that denies your operation because it costs too much and you die makes it a Death panel, just like the current insurance companies have......or like when an insurance company drops you when you contract an expensive problem. I don't like the private insurance companies when they do this, and the Government will just be an a much larger scale.

Also stated by the commander in chief "Under my plan, energy costs would necessarily skyrocket". With the latest EPA regulations (President's executive order) on current coal plants which will force many to close (8 in Illinois already announced), please explain how the costs will not skyrocket. It's about supply and demand, just like gas prices which are also thru the roof. Gas was only 1.78 a gallon (national average) when this failure was sworn into office, today the national average is 4.43 up 9 cents from 4.34 just last week, 4.21 last month. His statement about gas prices when he was running? "I wouldn't mind seeing 5, 6 or 10 dollar a gallon gas, I'd just like to see a more gradual rise in prices". Well, we're on our way.

Health care law is now in front of the Supreme Court. If they uphold the Government mandate that the Government can FORCE you to purchase a private sector product they can FORCE you to buy anything, like an electric car. Think about it.

You forgot to mention that the inept liars at the CBO already say Oblamercare will cost twice as much as they thought. In the end it will cost 10 times ++++++++++ more!

[kernie]

[QUOTE=knine;1167077]A panel that denies your operation because it costs too much and you die makes it a Death panel, just like the current insurance companies have......or like when an insurance company drops you when you contract an expensive problem. I don't like the private insurance companies when they do this, and the Government will just be an a much larger scale.



Not the way it is here knine, why you think the government can be more cruel that those insurance companies?, i just don't understand. My uncle has been in and out of hospital the past 2+ years, in now due to another stroke before x-mas. No death panels or anything close to that and zero charge to his family for the 8+ months hospital time recently. And i might add he would get the same top-notch care wheather he was a VIP or a street bum. I have no desire to argue this stuff all day long here but it baffles me to see you guys defend the current model of healthcare you endure at nearly twice the cost per capita with lousy results like lifespans.

No one is abandoned here, freedom from insurance companies and peice of mind from medical bills, covered by insurance or not. Yes rich people worldwide go to the USA for great care, assumming of course you can pay those big bills, money talks. Yes there can be lineups for hip-replacement type stuff.

Anyhow i'm done, just banging my head against the wall.

[kernie]

[QUOTE=knine;Health care law is now in front of the Supreme Court. If they uphold the Government mandate that the Government can FORCE you to purchase a private sector product they can FORCE you to buy anything, like an electric car. Think about it.[/QUOTE]

And of course, forcing you to buy coverage from isurance companies?, outrageous!

Freedom is getting a black eye here!

[sailsmen]

Insurance companies sell a product, it is a contract between you and the insurance company.
Insurance Companies are not the Gov't/Law and cannot tell you what to do or what you cannot have. Insurance companies cannot put you in jail for rendering or recieving an excluded or denied benefit.
All insurance companies can do is not pay for something. If you dispute that they should because it is covered in your policy there are numerous avenues, appeal to regulatory bodies, sue or go to arbitration. None of these are available under Obamacare.
Under Obamacare you cannot choose which benefits you want covered by insurance. You are told what healhthcare you will receive period end of story no options.

The Left purposely lumps healthcare and insurance together as a means to SinglePayer, to blur the lines. Don't fall for the trap. I have participated in many a charity to raise money for someone that for whatever reason could not pay for healthcare.
Under Obamacare that would not happen.

Under Obamacare my mother would have died in 1997 and my fahter would be disabled and probably dead. Both are walking around.

PS Where do all those wealthy Canadians and those elected Canadian Mucky Mucks go for their healthcare that they can't get in Canada? USA???????? They even have people making a living in Canada to get the Gov't to pay for people who have to go to USA to get healthcare that is not available in Canada. Maybe we can hire those same people to get us covered under Obamacare. I dunno how good are they?

[Fosters]

Not the way it is here knine, why you think the government can be more cruel that those insurance companies?

Why do you think it is better? Insurance companies won't put me in jail, or fine me for not buying their product. Government is trying to do exactly that.

And you want to debate "cruel"? How about the part where it's none of government's business what I do? Have you spoonfed socialists lost track of a concept called freedom, in which YOU are responsible for your own self? Does the government really have to make all of your decisions for you? Are you that incapable of fending for yourself?

Your solution to lack of responsibility is not to teach the irresponsible, but to take responsibility away from everyone?

You may enjoy going through life without owning a gun, without choosing your own healthcare/doctor, without driving whatever the hell you want, without making as much money as you can/want, and without living wherever you want, on as big of a piece of land as you want, but not everyone wants that. Some people like freedom, and have a big problem when the likes of you and Obama try to force their way of life on everyone else.

It's nice that you socialists seem to think you know what's best for me and everyone else, but the fact of the matter is, you know what's best for yourself, and I know what's best for me.

PS: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/03/22/marketplace-dirty-hospitals.html

Sounds like the ideal healthcare system... one that cuts corners on clean hospitals. What could possibly go wrong? Someone call the CBO and tell them they could shave a few more billions if obamacare cuts cleaning in hospitals... :lol:

[sailsmen]

The answer to your question is IMMUNITY! You cannot sue the USA Gov't under OBAMACARE. You cannot go to your Insurance Commissioner and get their licensed yanked. When the Gov't denies you healthcare under Obamacare you either die or leave the country.
WE ARE NOT CANADA. WE FOUGHT A REVOLUTIONARY CIVIL WAR NOT TO BE. WE WENT TO WAR NOT ONCE BUT TWICE NOT TO BE A CANADA!
WE HAVE FREED MORE PEOPLE, yes Canada was by our side, FROM THE TYRANNY OF SOCIALISM WHILE GENERATING THE GREATEST AMOUNT OF WEALTH FOR THE GREATEST NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND. IT IS CALLED FREEDOM.
Liberals put your money where your mouth is and fund all the non-tax paying entities rendering all the services you want with all the rules you want. Just don't shove it down my throat by making it LAW!
Accept it when the USA goes down Canda will be sucked down with us.

The "Cruelty" of Gov't has murdered tens or perhpas hundreds of millions, something an insurance company cannot do.

[jerrym3]

No one should be forced to by health insurance.

On the other hand, no one should be forced to cover someone who's chosen not to be insured.

Simple, if you don't want to be insured, just sign a document that says if you need medical care and 1) do not have insurance or 2) cannot afford the cost of treatment, you accept being sent by ambulance (we'll cover that cost) to your home so you can bleed and/or die in peace.

Because I sure as hell don't want to cover you because you think you're invincible.

And, let's say you do need medical help, but have sufficient funds to carry you for a while.

When you run out of funds and apply for insurance, you now have a pre-existing condition.

Coverage denied.

Even in NJ, where you cannot be denied coverage due to a pre-existing condition, you CAN be turned down if you let your coverage lapse for over six months.

When I lost my job and insurance, and I went on Medicare, we had to scramble real quick to get my wife her own coverage. Even then, her claims kept being denied until my old company sent a letter confirming that she was covered under my plan while I was employed.

[CBT]

Dick Cheney just got a heart transplant at 72(?) years old. He's had a bad heart forever, who is his awesome insurance company?

[knine]

[QUOTE=knine;1167077], and the Government will just be an a much larger scale.



Not the way it is here knine, why you think the government can be more cruel that those insurance companies?, i just don't understand. .
Not more cruel, as to the level of cruel, larger scale = more decisions, i.e. Volume of denials.

[kernie]

Dick Cheney just got a heart transplant at 72(?) years old. He's had a bad heart forever, who is his awesome insurance company?



And here i thought insurance companie had no role in healthcare other than adding 25% or so to the overall costs. Silly me.;)



[QUOTE=kernie;1167095]
Not more cruel, as to the level of cruel, larger scale = more decisions, i.e. Volume of denials.


What denials? There are no judges, just medical people in a universal system.


As for Fosters and Sailsmen, take a pill, why the attack dog type replies? And the obvious misinformation, why? :shake:

[FordNut]

Yep, you don't need 2700 pages to make healthcare reform work.

1. No pre-existing condition exclusions and you can't be dropped. You take the good with the bad.
2. Tort reform. Plaintiff pays all legal fees if they lose case. Caps on awards. Lawyers can be heavily fined for frivolous cases.
3. Allow insurance companies to compete across state lines.
4. Create non taxable health care savings accounts.

Done.:burnout:

I agree with most of this, the exception is #1, pre-existing conditions. The best way I can think of to address this issue fairly is IF a prospective policy holder has a certificate of creditable coverage (I.E. they have been insured by another company) then there should be no waiting period for pre-existing conditions. IF a prospective policy holder has been uninsured, then a waiting period for coverage of pre-existing conditions should be allowed. That would prevent people from just skipping insurance until they get sick.

Most people, I believe, would voluntarily carry insurance but a lot of people who otherwise would do it on their own will refuse just because they are being told they HAVE to.

[sailsmen]

Obamacare maybe the largest non-military expansion of Gov't over a 4 year period in the history of man.:mad2:

[CBT]

Article from last year on how to save us money, money that could go towards health care. Anything on this list you couldn't live without? Me neither.



Date: Monday, July 4, 2011,
These are all the programs that the new Republican House has proposed cutting.
Corporation for Public Broadcasting Subsidy.$445 million annual savings.
Save America 's Treasures Program. $25 million annual savings.
International Fund for Ireland . $17 million annual savings.
Legal Services Corporation. $420 million annual savings.
National Endowment for the Arts. $167.5 million annual savings.
National Endowment for the Humanities. $167.5 million annual savings.
Hope VI Program.. $250 million annual savings.
Amtrak Subsidies. $1.565 billion annual savings.
Eliminate duplicative education programs. H.R. 2274 (in last Congress), authored by Rep. McKeon, eliminates 68 at a savings of $1.3 billion annually.
U.S. Trade Development Agency. $55 million annual savings.
Woodrow Wilson Center Subsidy. $20 million annual savings.
Cut in half funding for congressional printing and binding. $47 million annual savings.
John C. Stennis Center Subsidy. $430,000 annual savings.
Community Development Fund. $4.5 billion annual savings.
Heritage Area Grants and Statutory Aid. $24 million annual savings.
Cut Federal Travel Budget in Half. $7.5 billion annual savings.
Trim Federal Vehicle Budget by 20%. $600 million annual savings.
Essential Air Service. $150 million annual savings.
Technology Innovation Program. $70 million annual savings.
Manufacturing Extension Partnership (MEP) Program. $125 million annual savings.
Department of Energy Grants to States for Weatherization. $530 million annual savings.
Beach Replenishment. $95 million annual savings.
New Starts Transit. $2 billion annual savings.
Exchange Programs for Alaska Natives, Native Hawaiians, and Their Historical Trading Partners in Massachusetts . $9 million annual savings.
What the hell is this anyway…?
Intercity and High Speed Rail Grants. $2.5 billion annual savings.
Title X Family Planning. $318 million annual savings.
Appalachian Regional Commission. $76 million annual savings.
Economic Development Administration. $293 million annual savings.
Programs under the National and Community Services Act. $1.15 billion annual savings.
Applied Research at Department of Energy. $1.27 billion annual savings.
FreedomCAR and Fuel Partnership. $200 million annual savings.
Energy Star Program. $52 million annual savings.
Economic Assistance to Egypt . $250 million annually.
U.S. Agency for International Development. $1.39 billion annual savings.
General Assistance to District of Columbia . $210 million annual savings.
Subsidy for Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority. $150 million annual savings.
Presidential Campaign Fund. $775 million savings over ten years.
No funding for federal office space acquisition. $864 million annual savings.
End prohibitions on competitive sourcing of government services. Repeal the Davis-Bacon Act. More than $1 billion annually.
IRS Direct Deposit: Require the IRS to deposit fees for services it offers (such as processing payment plans for taxpayers) to the Treasury, instead of allowing payments to remain as part of its budget.
$1.8 billion savings over ten years.
Require collection of unpaid taxes by federal employees. $1 billion total savings.

WHAT THE HELL…!
Prohibit taxpayer funded union activities by federal employees. $1.2 billion savings over ten years.
Sell excess federal properties the government does not make use of. $15 billion total savings.
Eliminate Mohair Subsidies. <--what the hell is that? $1 million annual savings.
Eliminate taxpayer subsidies to the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.
$12.5 million annual savings.
Eliminate Market Access Program. $200 million annual savings.
USDA Sugar Program. $14 million annual savings.
Subsidy to Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).
$93 million annual savings.
Eliminate the National Organic Certification Cost-Share Program. $56.2 million annual savings.
Eliminate fund for Obamacare administrative costs. $900 million savings.
Ready to Learn TV Program. $27 million savings.
Eliminate death gratuity for Members of Congress.
HUD Ph.D. Program.

Deficit Reduction Check-Off Act

TOTAL SAVINGS
: $2.5 Trillion over Ten Years

[tbone]

I agree with most of this, the exception is #1, pre-existing conditions. The best way I can think of to address this issue fairly is IF a prospective policy holder has a certificate of creditable coverage (I.E. they have been insured by another company) then there should be no waiting period for pre-existing conditions. IF a prospective policy holder has been uninsured, then a waiting period for coverage of pre-existing conditions should be allowed. That would prevent people from just skipping insurance until they get sick.

Most people, I believe, would voluntarily carry insurance but a lot of people who otherwise would do it on their own will refuse just because they are being told they HAVE to.

Agreed.

Obviously there needs to be some fine print on my plan, but not 2700 pages.

[knine]

Agreed.

Obviously there needs to be some fine print on my plan, but not 2700 pages.
"You have to pass the bill to find out what's in it" --Nancy Pelosi (D) California

[tbone]

"You have to pass the bill to find out what's in it" --Nancy Pelosi (D) California


Who could forget that gem!

What a useful IDIOT she is. Along with "Dingy" Harry Reid, Joe "The Gaffe Machine" Biden, Timothy "Tax Cheat" Geitner, Barney "Not My Fault" Frank and of course Barack Hussein "Crybaby in Chief" Oblamer.

[sailsmen]

Whats more likely that a bunch of hard working elected officials and their dedicated staff put in the effort to write this 2,700 page bill or they took some things that various organizations, such as the Tides Foundation, had already on the shelf and cobbled them together.

This has been a long time coming for the Left for if you control a persons healthcare you control them.

The Left in particular Obama ignored all else to put all their energy in this.

I want the Old Liberal Leftist back from the 1960's whose core belief was
Leave me alone to Live my Life as I Like it and who rejected all forms of authority be it Gov't, Parents, those over 30, Schools, etc.

How did they do a 180 to Live your Life the way Gov't Likes it?:mad:

[jerrym3]

I agree with most of this, the exception is #1, pre-existing conditions. The best way I can think of to address this issue fairly is IF a prospective policy holder has a certificate of creditable coverage (I.E. they have been insured by another company) then there should be no waiting period for pre-existing conditions. IF a prospective policy holder has been uninsured, then a waiting period for coverage of pre-existing conditions should be allowed. That would prevent people from just skipping insurance until they get sick.

Most people, I believe, would voluntarily carry insurance but a lot of people who otherwise would do it on their own will refuse just because they are being told they HAVE to.

Problem with the pre existing condition waiting period suggestion is that it assumes that the illness is not too serious.

A person without insurance who experiences a sudden heart condition or is diagnosed with a brain tumor could be dead before the end of the waiting period.

[sailsmen]

2 steps reform healthcare INSURANCE. Ability to buy across State lines and bought personally with pre Tax dollars making it a taxable benefit when bought by an employer.

Why would the cost of a Medicare supplement be 4 times more on one state than another? Because some states have min coverages and "freebies" tacked on all policies sold in their state.

[kernie]

How about a two tier system where everyone has basic coverage complete with the warts like lineups. At the same time those who want more, can buy coverage from a insurance company that allows them private immediate care.

The hitch is that even a billionare has basic universal coverage that all taxpayers support.

As for Obama, how about some debate on Romney?

I kinda like him which likely means you all mostly don't like him.

[jerrym3]

The "going across state lines" issue brings up some questions.

Why does the same company have different rates for different states.

Possibilities?

Medical costs (hospitals, doctors, specialists, office support, etc) might be less expensive in, say, Iowa, than they are in, say, New York? Is health care better in some states?

Is there a difference in the types or frequency of certain illnesses in different states? (Higher incidence of cancer in state A as opposed to state B?)

So, if it's less expensive to do "insurance business" in Iowa, for whatever reason, than in New York, how can we sign up for Iowa rates while living in New York?

Wouldn't it just lead to the insurance companies leveling the field by raising Iowa's rate structure?

When I get car insurance, my rate is based upon many factors, one of which is where I live. I can't get a possibly cheaper rate by saying I live in New Mexico.

Not taking sides. Just asking questions.

[knine]

As for Obama, how about some debate on Romney?

I kinda like him which likely means you all mostly don't like him.
BINGO !! More establishment. :mad2:

[tbone]

Anyone is better than Oblamer.

Romney will govern to the right.

[sailsmen]

The "going across state lines" issue brings up some questions.

Why does the same company have different rates for different states.

Possibilities?

Medical costs (hospitals, doctors, specialists, office support, etc) might be less expensive in, say, Iowa, than they are in, say, New York? Is health care better in some states?

Is there a difference in the types or frequency of certain illnesses in different states? (Higher incidence of cancer in state A as opposed to state B?)

So, if it's less expensive to do "insurance business" in Iowa, for whatever reason, than in New York, how can we sign up for Iowa rates while living in New York?

Wouldn't it just lead to the insurance companies leveling the field by raising Iowa's rate structure?

When I get car insurance, my rate is based upon many factors, one of which is where I live. I can't get a possibly cheaper rate by saying I live in New Mexico.

Not taking sides. Just asking questions.

Just like housing or pay different areas have different costs of living. Zip code of each person in a group who buys group healthinsurance is one of the premium factors. Over Regulation is the biggest driver of costs.

Examples in some states all policiesw must cover as "freebies" the pill, prostrate exam, mental health, chiropratic, ect. In most cases these "freebies" are not insurance, just a cost increaser to cover insurance. Do you insure your pencils??? What if your homeowners insurance required "freebies"? New painting every 5 years, a/c check every year, cut the grass every other week???? How much would your homeoners insurance costs with all these great freebies?

I lived in a state devastated by a Hurricane. Many businesses closed or down sized. If the State has manadtory "freebie" for mental health and you have 100,000 of thousands of people seeking mental health because they just lived through hell how are you as an insurance company going to be able to pay for these "freebies"?

[kernie]

How about the first part of my post...



[QUOTE=kernie;1167453]How about a two tier system where everyone has basic coverage complete with the warts like lineups. At the same time those who want more, can buy coverage from a insurance company that allows them private immediate care.

The hitch is that even a billionare has basic universal coverage that all taxpayers support.



No one has commented on this, Fosters hasn't gone all Tokoyo Rose on me, thoughts?

[sailsmen]

Cancer survival rate in the UK 44% and in the USA 63%. You have a 45% greater chance of surviving cancer in the USA then the UK. Where you want to be living when you get cancer? Where the treatment is "FREE" as in the UK?

Hey when I lived in the UK they had Drs and Nurses standing on street corners with a pot and a bell begging for money for "linens for St. Marys". Hey but it's free! I thought they were with the Salvation Army but it was in March, before the holiday season.

[kernie]

Cancer survival rate in the UK 44% and in the USA 63%. You have a 45% greater chance of surviving cancer in the USA then the UK. Where you want to be living when you get cancer? Where the treatment is "FREE" as in the UK?

Hey when I lived in the UK they had Drs and Nurses standing on street corners with a pot and a bell begging for money for "linens for St. Marys". Hey but it's free! I thought they were with the Salvation Army but it was in March, before the holiday season.


OK, so you buy better coverage.

[MrBluGruv]

OK, so you buy better coverage.

If that is an acceptable outcome, it implies that the basic coverage is somehow inadequate.

Wouldn't it be more practical for insurance companies to offer the two-tiered system as you described, except the lower tier is still in the private sector instead of publically subsidized? This way, the people that want more, don't have to pay for the upper AND lower tier coverage, and the people that would be paying only lower tier coverage still get the same thing they would have anyways?

Seems like an awful lot of waste to those at the top to publically subsidize it if you're still modelling a two-tiered buy-in system anyways.

[kernie]

If that is an acceptable outcome, it implies that the basic coverage is somehow inadequate.

Wouldn't it be more practical for insurance companies to offer the two-tiered system as you described, except the lower tier is still in the private sector instead of publically subsidized? This way, the people that want more, don't have to pay for the upper AND lower tier coverage, and the people that would be paying only lower tier coverage still get the same thing they would have anyways?

Seems like an awful lot of waste to those at the top to publically subsidize it if you're still modelling a two-tiered buy-in system anyways.


I hear you, and thank-you for your reasonable responce.

As per above highlighted, i believe the model can work, it can be compared to education. I'm not sure how public\private exist where you are but here, everyone pays the public costs of education. If you think the public system is lacking and you have the means to pay large amounts for superior private education, good for you, reap the rewards of success. At the same time the public system doesn't have to support those students and therefor benefits.

Win-win

[Fosters]

As for Fosters and Sailsmen, take a pill, why the attack dog type replies? And the obvious misinformation, why? :shake:

So you condemn my reply as an attack dog reply, yet in the same breath you claim everything I said is misinformation?

No rebuttal, no facts, no logic. Awesome.

[Fosters]

Article from last year on how to save us money, money that could go towards health care. Anything on this list you couldn't live without? Me neither.



Date: Monday, July 4, 2011,
These are all the programs that the new Republican House has proposed cutting.
Corporation for Public Broadcasting Subsidy.$445 million annual savings.
Save America 's Treasures Program. $25 million annual savings.
International Fund for Ireland . $17 million annual savings.
Legal Services Corporation. $420 million annual savings.
National Endowment for the Arts. $167.5 million annual savings.
National Endowment for the Humanities. $167.5 million annual savings.
Hope VI Program.. $250 million annual savings.
Amtrak Subsidies. $1.565 billion annual savings.
Eliminate duplicative education programs. H.R. 2274 (in last Congress), authored by Rep. McKeon, eliminates 68 at a savings of $1.3 billion annually.
U.S. Trade Development Agency. $55 million annual savings.
Woodrow Wilson Center Subsidy. $20 million annual savings.
Cut in half funding for congressional printing and binding. $47 million annual savings.
John C. Stennis Center Subsidy. $430,000 annual savings.
Community Development Fund. $4.5 billion annual savings.
Heritage Area Grants and Statutory Aid. $24 million annual savings.
Cut Federal Travel Budget in Half. $7.5 billion annual savings.
Trim Federal Vehicle Budget by 20%. $600 million annual savings.
Essential Air Service. $150 million annual savings.
Technology Innovation Program. $70 million annual savings.
Manufacturing Extension Partnership (MEP) Program. $125 million annual savings.
Department of Energy Grants to States for Weatherization. $530 million annual savings.
Beach Replenishment. $95 million annual savings.
New Starts Transit. $2 billion annual savings.
Exchange Programs for Alaska Natives, Native Hawaiians, and Their Historical Trading Partners in Massachusetts . $9 million annual savings.
What the hell is this anyway…?
Intercity and High Speed Rail Grants. $2.5 billion annual savings.
Title X Family Planning. $318 million annual savings.
Appalachian Regional Commission. $76 million annual savings.
Economic Development Administration. $293 million annual savings.
Programs under the National and Community Services Act. $1.15 billion annual savings.
Applied Research at Department of Energy. $1.27 billion annual savings.
FreedomCAR and Fuel Partnership. $200 million annual savings.
Energy Star Program. $52 million annual savings.
Economic Assistance to Egypt . $250 million annually.
U.S. Agency for International Development. $1.39 billion annual savings.
General Assistance to District of Columbia . $210 million annual savings.
Subsidy for Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority. $150 million annual savings.
Presidential Campaign Fund. $775 million savings over ten years.
No funding for federal office space acquisition. $864 million annual savings.
End prohibitions on competitive sourcing of government services. Repeal the Davis-Bacon Act. More than $1 billion annually.
IRS Direct Deposit: Require the IRS to deposit fees for services it offers (such as processing payment plans for taxpayers) to the Treasury, instead of allowing payments to remain as part of its budget.
$1.8 billion savings over ten years.
Require collection of unpaid taxes by federal employees. $1 billion total savings.

WHAT THE HELL…!
Prohibit taxpayer funded union activities by federal employees. $1.2 billion savings over ten years.
Sell excess federal properties the government does not make use of. $15 billion total savings.
Eliminate Mohair Subsidies. <--what the hell is that? $1 million annual savings.
Eliminate taxpayer subsidies to the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.
$12.5 million annual savings.
Eliminate Market Access Program. $200 million annual savings.
USDA Sugar Program. $14 million annual savings.
Subsidy to Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).
$93 million annual savings.
Eliminate the National Organic Certification Cost-Share Program. $56.2 million annual savings.
Eliminate fund for Obamacare administrative costs. $900 million savings.
Ready to Learn TV Program. $27 million savings.
Eliminate death gratuity for Members of Congress.
HUD Ph.D. Program.

Deficit Reduction Check-Off Act

TOTAL SAVINGS
: $2.5 Trillion over Ten Years

Impressive list. How about we cut it and NOT spend it instead? might almost be enough to pay for the current junk we're spending our kids' and grand kids money on.

And people could *GASP* buy their own damned healthcare. Those who can't afford it, work harder (like a lot of us are) or die, I'm tired of paying for them.

Harsh? Sure is. Ever heard the phrase time is money? Last I checked, I don't have unlimited time on this earth.

[kernie]

[QUOTE=Fosters;You may enjoy going through life without owning a gun, without choosing your own healthcare/doctor, without driving whatever the hell you want, without making as much money as you can/want, and without living wherever you want, on as big of a piece of land as you want, but not everyone wants that. Some people like freedom, and have a big problem when the likes of you and Obama try to force their way of life on everyone else.

It's nice that you socialists seem to think you know what's best for me and everyone else, but the fact of the matter is, you know what's best for yourself, and I know what's best for me.

[/QUOTE]


How about the first part of my post...



[QUOTE=kernie;1167453]How about a two tier system where everyone has basic coverage complete with the warts like lineups. At the same time those who want more, can buy coverage from a insurance company that allows them private immediate care.

The hitch is that even a billionare has basic universal coverage that all taxpayers support.



No one has commented on this, Fosters hasn't gone all Tokoyo Rose on me, thoughts?




So you condemn my reply as an attack dog reply, yet in the same breath you claim everything I said is misinformation?

No rebuttal, no facts, no logic. Awesome.



Yup, all fact, up there in the highlight, :shake:, comical really.

No Romney talk? No talk on the two tier i speak of?

Waiting.

[jerrym3]

Just like housing or pay different areas have different costs of living. Zip code of each person in a group who buys group healthinsurance is one of the premium factors. Over Regulation is the biggest driver of costs.

Examples in some states all policiesw must cover as "freebies" the pill, prostrate exam, mental health, chiropratic, ect. In most cases these "freebies" are not insurance, just a cost increaser to cover insurance. Do you insure your pencils??? What if your homeowners insurance required "freebies"? New painting every 5 years, a/c check every year, cut the grass every other week???? How much would your homeoners insurance costs with all these great freebies?

I lived in a state devastated by a Hurricane. Many businesses closed or down sized. If the State has manadtory "freebie" for mental health and you have 100,000 of thousands of people seeking mental health because they just lived through hell how are you as an insurance company going to be able to pay for these "freebies"?

Sounds like you agree with me that different states have different conditions.

So, how can a "buy across state lines" suggestion ever work?

What's to stop the less costly states from experiencing rate increases to level the field?

[sailsmen]

FREE MARKET = COMPETITION! Why does anything and every thing Gov't do cost more? Answer Gov't does not compete.

How about if all your purchases were limited to only buying from within your state? Would the price be more or less?
How about if all your purchases were limited to only buying from within your county? Or town? Or neighbor? Or relatives?
My mother is extremly smart but if I could only buy a car from her that she made I would not be albe to buy a car.
Over Gov't regulation, including manadatory freebies, increases costs. Do not incorrectly assume all insurance is the same, the costs of delivering a product from one company is all the same and so forth.
With Obamacare it will all be the same except for those who are granted waivers and those that have more rights than others.

Please read again - "Examples in some states all policiesw must cover as "freebies" the pill, prostrate exam, mental health, chiropratic, ect. In most cases these "freebies" are not insurance, just a cost increaser to cover insurance. Do you insure your pencils??? What if your homeowners insurance required "freebies"? New painting every 5 years, a/c check every year, cut the grass every other week???? How much would your homeoners insurance costs with all these great freebies?"

The profits of the top 10 healthcare insurance companies traditionally averages 5.5%. Gov't through regulation is forcing the healthcare insurance industry to provdie "free" healthcare by requiring "freebies". This is not insurance and drives up the costs of insurance. This is solely to make healthcare insurance unaffodrable to force a Single Payer Nationalized Healthcare System, Obama has publically stated same. Do you not believe him?