Black Paint Issues

[yardborough]

Hello everyone! I am new to the forum even though I have an 03 Marauder that I bought new in 03.

I am in Toronto, Ontario Canada. I have read many posts in the past about our paint problems. My paint has always been way below par for an upscale vehicle but I lived with it.

The Marauder has been stored for all the winters since new. Last year I had no choice but to drive it.

One day it needed washing. I noticed what seemed to be bird droppings or sap on the roof. Closer inspection showed that the roof had blistered badly.

Knowing that some of the members here managed to get Ford to repaint their cars, I contacted Ford to see if they would help me with the problem.

They were very adamant that my warranty has expired and they would do nothing to help me.

I told them that this was extremely disappointing to an extreme Ford enthusiast that even bleeds blue! and has owned Ford products for over 40 years. Still no relief from them.

I have a 1999 black Mercury cougar and the paint is still good and has been winter driven since day one. Why would my 03 blister so badly! Ford still refused to admit any fault on their part.

I am in the process of filing a motion in small claims court against them. I need some information from this site about similar problems that our members had with paint issues.

I tried searching for this but can't find any old posts. Maybe I am searching with the wrong terms.

Can anybody lead me in the right direction?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

[tbone]

I have it as well as many others. It was caused by excess solvent left in the lines after cleaning.
I doubt your claim will succeed. Good luck though.

[DOOM]

There was solvent in the lines when they painted the 03's.

Steve Babcock said it was this very reason why they changed their paint process in 04!

All 04 and up panthers had better quality paint jobs.

That quote was from Steve Babcock at MV9!

[STEPS]

I have the same problem on the hood of my black 03

[Bluerauder]

I have the same problem on the hood of my black 03
It ain't only Black MMs. My Blue MM started to blister about 2 years ago on the roof. Now the hood is starting to show crow's feet cracks. The paint problems on the black MMs started to show up almost immediately. BDJ had his car repainted before I met him for the first time in April 2004. Pretty sure that his was covered under warranty since he caught it early as did several members here.

I haven't heard of the issue yet on Silvers or DTRs.

[marauder410]

my black 03 roof is soooo bad blistered its not even funny i need to get repainted like asap this sooo terrible

[Mebot]

Yeah my paint job is pretty horrible, but just cosmetic. I know i might offend some people, but i don't care about my paint. I would rather spend my $$ first on pulleys, control arms, exhaust, headers, supercharger etc!!!!

Paint will eventually come but not a priority for me. and BTW good luck with your litigation (to the OP). Not sure what you can expect, but at least you will get their attention

[SC Cheesehead]

^^^^^^ What they said. ^^^^^^



I have it as well as many others. It was caused by excess solvent left in the lines after cleaning.
I doubt your claim will succeed. Good luck though.


^^^^^What he said. ^^^^^

The car is going on 10 years old, will be very tough to get a successful claim, IMO.

[capt512]

Mine has the same :( there was a guy in my area doing the complete strip and repaint for around $4500. But everyone else wanted $10k+. My hood and trunk are blistered bad, and my roof has a mix of blistering and bird bomb etching. One bad paint job.

[tbone]

Mine has the same :( there was a guy in my area doing the complete strip and repaint for around $4500. But everyone else wanted $10k+. My hood and trunk are blistered bad, and my roof has a mix of blistering and bird bomb etching. One bad paint job.

You have some expensive shops in your area. A super reputable shop near me will paint the car including complete disassembly, even the glass for $3500.

[capt512]

I tried 4 different shops and they all came out at $10k+ in my area, because they had to completly strip down to metal and said that took considerable time and effort, vs just scuff and spray.

[Mac-MerC]

im glad im not the only one with these issues, roof and trunk are horrible.
shops around here say they want 8k, no jams or under trunk lid or hood.

[SC Cheesehead]

im glad im not the only one with these issues, roof and trunk are horrible.
shops around here say they want 8k, no jams or under trunk lid or hood.


That's about the same figures I've heard, Mac; would be great if we could find a source somewhere in the SE for $4K or less.

[justbob]

You have some expensive shops in your area. A super reputable shop near me will paint the car including complete disassembly, even the glass for $3500.

Where are you shopping around at Tom? I've been quoted from no estimate, but we will start at $6000 :rolleyes: to $12,000. I have found that most shops don't even want the job!

Total B.S. These cars could be stripped down, light body work done, painted, and assembled in WELL under 32 hours and the material comes in at under $1000. I worked for a body shop for a short time, total greed.

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[smacdiesel]

I want to learn how to paint myself, makes the hobby much more economical.

[tbone]

Where are you shopping around at Tom? I've been quoted from no estimate, but we will start at $6000 :rolleyes: to $12,000. I have found that most shops don't even want the job!

Total B.S. These cars could be stripped down, light body work done, painted, and assembled in WELL under 32 hours and the material comes in at under $1000. I worked for a body shop for a short time, total greed.

Sent from my Ally using Tapatalk 2

Adams Collision in Crystal Lake quoted me $3000 to $3500. I even showed him the defects. However, I primarily only have them on the front fenders now. The hood is of course the one you sold me and the roof was re-sprayed by previous owner, but they did a crap job at fine sanding. Still, I have some crows feet sprinkled around the rest of the car that haven't been fixed. This paint shop fixed my wife's Explorer and they did a great job.

[burtreynolds]

I wonder if a class action would do something. I have the issue and would be happy to split the cost amongst other mm owners for an atty as long as we could get a valid showing.

[dubchevy72]

The hood and trunk of my 03 is blistering in random places. It's just the clearcoat, i believe. It can probably be repaired fairly easily, though I'm not sure yet. Once I find out at the paint shop down the street, I'll update you!

[dubchevy72]

I'm having the same issues. Is there anything we can do that won't cost more then the car??

[burtreynolds]

Class action and share the cost of the atty. You
need about 50-100 people willing to file the suit for ford to even
notice. Each person would have to have a quote over 4k for paint
as a point of contention and then for would likely settle out of court
for a free respray at local dealer (1-2k out of fords pocket). Proof would
Have to be established with documented quotes from former project insiders
as well as multiple and documented cases of defect. How do you think Toyota
owners got their stuff fixed? How do you think BMW v12 owners got new alusil
Blocks to replace the nickel blocks?

[yardborough]

I have a good body shop I deal with working on the roof. He has had the car for a week now and can't get the roof done.

He says that I will have to pay for his physiotherapy on his shoulder. He has sanded the roof extensively, put on a rust inhibitor, many coats of expensive primer and doesn't know what to do next. It's like a cancer! It bleeds through overnight. He told me that the roof should be cut out and a new one welded to fix the problem

I am sorry but the 10 years old bit doesn't cut it. I have the 1999 black cougar that is still in good shape. I also have a black 01 Lincoln LS and it is perfect. These two cars were winter driven. My Marauder was always stored indoors for winters. I only have 45000 miles on it.

It is totally irresponsible on Ford's part. The paint was bad from day one. Did you guys notice how easily it scratches? Breathing on it would scratch it.

I think a class action would be the way to go!

[Go2GuyFL]

My roof was done last year. Body shop stripped it down to bare metal after going thru many sanding pads. Came to $800 between parts and labor.

P.S. Do a search on "blistering" and you'll find all the previous threads.

[justbob]

Luckily mine never blistered as she has spent most days in a garage. Scratchs though are a JOKE! I swear there is no clearcoat on this car.

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[capt512]

I agree that most shops don't want to touch it. I had two that flat out said it was more of a job than they wanted to take on...and they completly stripped cars as their specialty. All of them said they needed to chemically strip the paint off then sand and start all over and thats the cost.

[SAAAAAC]

I have the problem as well. Was thinking about getting it repainted, but would that devalue the car?

[Odinson]

Was it every 03 or just some of them?

My 03 just had the roof repainted but it was just starting to look bad after 10 years of hellish dd NY winters. Pretty sure my MM would look worse than the avatar as described. I am regular about washing and protecting but not religious.

Oh and I'm pretty sure at least my hood, a fender, and possibly a door and my trunk were already repainted from unreported accident in the first 32k (before me.) Maybe that surprise was actually a blessing? Really only 2 fenders and 3 doors have original paint.

[SC Cheesehead]

Class action and share the cost of the atty. You
need about 50-100 people willing to file the suit for ford to even
notice. Each person would have to have a quote over 4k for paint
as a point of contention and then for would likely settle out of court
for a free respray at local dealer (1-2k out of fords pocket). Proof would
Have to be established with documented quotes from former project insiders
as well as multiple and documented cases of defect. How do you think Toyota
owners got their stuff fixed? How do you think BMW v12 owners got new alusil
Blocks to replace the nickel blocks?

Um, how much would that cost each interested party, and how confident are you that Ford would settle out of court, and how do you figure Ford would come away with a $1-2K cost for repaint on a quote of $4,000?

If your car (or those owned by other plaintiffs) has had multiple owners, how solid do you think the claims of Ford fault would be? What absolute proof can be presented that Ford is at fault (i.e. are there any mitigating circumstances that could affect condition of paint, for example: how well were all vehicles maintained, or how many were subjected environmental conditions that could impct paint [e.g.road salt in northern states, or salt air affecting West or East Coast vehicles])?

Not trying to burst your bubble, but I'm not seeing a real strong case here.

[Spectragod]

Total B.S. These cars could be stripped down, light body work done, painted, and assembled in WELL under 32 hours and the material comes in at under $1000. I worked for a body shop for a short time, total greed.

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I hate to disagree, but 32 hours in an overall AND you want it stripped to bare metal, that would be an absolute sh&t job.

You might be at 32 hours for the removal of the parts, stripping the paint & epoxy priming the car along with some of the blocking, it will need blocked, more than once sometimes.

You will have 2k in paint and materials (at least) alone, pluse the man hours for the work, then lets figure in overhead, you have to pay the bills for the shop, and workman's comp, unemployment, insurance, salarys, day to day bill's etc.

10k seems like a bargain now.....

[tbone]

Hello? Adams Collision says they will take care of it for $3 1o 3.5k. See post #16.

[Spectragod]

Hello? Adams Collision says they will take care of it for $3 1o 3.5k.

That is a smoking deal.....

[tbone]

BradleyG's 04 had it bad, the worst I've seen, and he just had it re-done. I think he paid $4500.

Brad - post up!

[tbone]

My '94 Ford Probe had it too. You would think Ford would learn how to paint cars by 2003/4.

[Bruce Wayne]

The roof on my MM is blistering BADLY! silver dollar blisters now, Let's get a petition to get this fixed from Ford . Clearly a factory defect. I have another MM , with 8 serial numbers away from my first one. The paint is not blistering on this "03 ? Now get this. I am working with a guy who spent years in the paint shop at STAP, he say's the metal on some, had issues with little "needles" sticking up from the metal, he says the paint will only get worse from this condition and says he notified his supervisor at the time, and nothing was done! When I took a tour of the St Thomas plant last year before it closed, I saw first hand the sub par metal for the roof panels which clearly showed spots on the metal itself, on some of the roof panels . I think we all need a repaint, at Ford's expense!

[loud2004marquis]

Show me where to sign!

[Bigdogjim]

First off the only time solvant was an issue was the first 2 week in August of '02. My build was 8/13/02 so I have one. And it was black paint only most of cars beening built were marauder's although GM and Crown Vic's could have been send through in the same time frame.

Steve Babcock noticed my paint issues at MV-I in Ennis, Texas. Steve sent my vin # to his contact at the St.Thomas Plant, that person contacted my selling dealer and OK'ed a repaint.

End result was 4 weeks in the paint shop and over $8200. in a warranty claim. (I know because I had to sgin off on it).

The issue were stains comming through on the hood, and white stops imbedded in the paint, a lot on "C" pillars and lower body.

Private body shops really do not want a job this big because it take up a spot in the garage for week's taking apart the car and putting it back together. The reason is they came turn more profit on smaller jobs that take less time and do not take a space for weeks on end. Simple use of garage space.

[a_d_a_m]

If your car (or those owned by other plaintiffs) has had multiple owners, how solid do you think the claims of Ford fault would be? What absolute proof can be presented that Ford is at fault (i.e. are there any mitigating circumstances that could affect condition of paint, for example: how well were all vehicles maintained, or how many were subjected environmental conditions that could impct paint [e.g.road salt in northern states, or salt air affecting West or East Coast vehicles])?

Not trying to burst your bubble, but I'm not seeing a real strong case here. I agree 100%.
How many miles do our cars have? My paint sucks but it's at 107k and looks good for that amout of mileage. That's even with warranty service to the paint (source: OASIS):
repaired mark in paint on roof (paint flaw)
1/12/04 @ 27193 miles
I know plenty of other cars with 107k who have way worse paint.

This case wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

OASIS shows that my black car was repainted by the selling dealer @ 35 miles before it was ever sold. It's an August 2002 build car. The prep they did was not great but it still shines and is holding up better than many 2003 cars w/ original black paint at this point so it could be much worse.

[burtreynolds]

The litigants would have to be widespread across the model line and also be numerous and "loud." Ford does not want to take a case to court when their lawyers would cost more than the repaints. The atty fees for a long drawn out case would be the key here, not who has a
Stronger case. This is why you have to have many plaintiffs and make it as public as you can. With the attitudes and nature of most marauder owners, this would be close to impossible.

Remember Children, it's not about who's right or wrong, it's about what's less hurtful to the pocketbook.

[justbob]

I hate to disagree, but 32 hours in an overall AND you want it stripped to bare metal, that would be an absolute sh&t job.

You might be at 32 hours for the removal of the parts, stripping the paint & epoxy priming the car along with some of the blocking, it will need blocked, more than once sometimes.

You will have 2k in paint and materials (at least) alone, pluse the man hours for the work, then lets figure in overhead, you have to pay the bills for the shop, and workman's comp, unemployment, insurance, salarys, day to day bill's etc.

10k seems like a bargain now.....

That was the stripping I was reffering to Darren, IE parts. I've bought plenty of materials from Dupont to PPG (at walk in price, not bulk) and including sandpaper, and masking you wouldn't be over $1200.00 over the counter price. This is exactly why no shops atleast around here will let you furnish materials, even if its what they use. This could be done in under 40 hours EASILY. I've never met any body man in these parts that make more than $25.00/hr. So is $1,300 a safe number after comp? The math just doesn't add up. This times 10 cars in the shop a week. What % of profit is their goal?

Don't wanna argue over dumb stuff, maybe I am missing something here? But having worked at a shop for a short time, and buying my own materials, I know the game.

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[Spectragod]

That was the stripping I was reffering to Darren, IE parts. I've bought plenty of materials from Dupont to PPG (at walk in price, not bulk) and including sandpaper, and masking you wouldn't be over $1200.00 over the counter price. This is exactly why no shops atleast around here will let you furnish materials, even if its what they use. This could be done in under 40 hours EASILY. I've never met any body man in these parts that make more than $25.00/hr. So is $1,300 a safe number after comp? The math just doesn't add up. This times 10 cars in the shop a week. What % of profit is their goal?

Don't wanna argue over dumb stuff, maybe I am missing something here? But having worked at a shop for a short time, and buying my own materials, I know the game.

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Bob,

No argument from me. I know, using Glasurit products start to finish, you will be over 2k in materials. Time needed will be based on how far your planning on tearing the car down, i.e., glass, handles, moldings, trim, lights, bumpers, and then comes the countless hours of blocking.

Granted, you can blow through one quick if you don't so much care about the end result, if it just has to be "good enough", yep, 40 hours or less, providing there is no bodywork involved. I was never satisfied with "good enough", it was always what I would expect for myself. But anything can be done on the cheap side.

Also, the shop has to make money to cover it overhead,if you saw the money associated in running a small shop, 8-10 people, I think it would be clear. And, as someone else stated, the small jobs are the ones that pay the bill's, in and out, not lingering for weeks (unless it's for big money).

In my area, 10k won't even get you in the door of a decent shop.

[tbone]

How come Maaco can quote me only $2000 to paint the whole car? They buy the same materials everyone else does. Granted the quality isn't as good as some, but.......

[BODYMAN]

You have some expensive shops in your area. A super reputable shop near me will paint the car including complete disassembly, even the glass for $3500.

Not flaming but 3500??? complete strip resurface and teardown for that?? coat to coast expect 6500-7500ish for 100% complete quality job. Unless you find a good bodyman doing it on the side then 3000-4000ish.

[BODYMAN]

How come Maaco can quote me only $2000 to paint the whole car? They buy the same materials everyone else does. Granted the quality isn't as good as some, but.......

Many factors but just to big ones regional contract with paint manufacturers and 10.00 hr help!

[BODYMAN]

Many factors but just to big ones regional contract with paint manufacturers and 10.00 hr help! lets also not forget the 100,000 paint booth plus the natural gas bill for heating the booth for bake time. I could go on & on on this.

[Spectragod]

How come Maaco can quote me only $2000 to paint the whole car? They buy the same materials everyone else does. Granted the quality isn't as good as some, but.......

Awesome, you should have them paint your car, I'm sure that you would be happy with the job. I don't shop low bid, cheaper is not always better.

I could have bought an ebay reman mod motor, but I felt better having Lidio build it, just think of the money that could have been saved.

By shopping cheap, your stepping over dollars for dimes, do what you can afford and be happy with it, that's the best advice I can give you.

[tbone]

Awesome, you should have them paint your car, I'm sure that you would be happy with the job. I don't shop low bid, cheaper is not always better.

I could have bought an ebay reman mod motor, but I felt better having Lidio build it, just think of the money that could have been saved.

By shopping cheap, your stepping over dollars for dimes, do what you can afford and be happy with it, that's the best advice I can give you.

Excuse me? Did I say I was having them paint my car? I was simply sharing the quote they gave me. I really don't appreciate your sarcasm.

[tbone]

Not flaming but 3500??? complete strip resurface and teardown for that?? coat to coast expect 6500-7500ish for 100% complete quality job. Unless you find a good bodyman doing it on the side then 3000-4000ish.

The entire car does not need to be stripped.

[Bigdogjim]

Many factors but just to big ones regional contract with paint manufacturers and 10.00 hr help!

A few ago ny friend re-painted a used '95 F-150 I bought and he used the local Maaco because they have the latest paint booth's. Volume is what does it for them. The prep work is the make or brake on a paint job.

[Spectragod]

How come Maaco can quote me only $2000 to paint the whole car? They buy the same materials everyone else does. Granted the quality isn't as good as some, but.......


Excuse me? Did I say I was having them paint my car? I was simply sharing the quote they gave me. I really don't appreciate your sarcasm.

See quote above^^^^, why price a job someplace if your not considering having them do the work? Also, I wasn't being sarcastic.


The entire car does not need to be stripped.

Any shop that will stand behind their paint work will require the car to be stripped to the bare metal, you cannot guarantee something that you can't see, i.e., prior work done to the car. So, all the paint needs to come off, all body work will need done prior to paint, and the car will need epoxy primed and block sanded if you want it nice, if you just want a scuff and shoot, low dollar job, go to Macco, they will do that for you, they will also do a strip and refinish if you request it, just a lot more $$$.

It really just comes down to what the owner can afford.

[gmarsden9]

i posted this before.. but it has always seemed to me that most american manufacts cant get there paint solved.. there clear coats are also very poor, even on the 03 mustangs gt of mine and a few other cars, i told myself when i get the money i want to repaint the marauder and use a german company..

[tbone]

See quote above^^^^, why price a job someplace if your not considering having them do the work? Also, I wasn't being sarcastic.




Any shop that will stand behind their paint work will require the car to be stripped to the bare metal, you cannot guarantee something that you can't see, i.e., prior work done to the car. So, all the paint needs to come off, all body work will need done prior to paint, and the car will need epoxy primed and block sanded if you want it nice, if you just want a scuff and shoot, low dollar job, go to Macco, they will do that for you, they will also do a strip and refinish if you request it, just a lot more $$$.

It really just comes down to what the owner can afford.


For a competitive price, to use in negotiations maybe. Curiosity possibly.
People ask me for prices on remodeling all the time that have no intention of hiring me to do the job.
Yeah, you were sarcastic. Like I'm being scolded for having the audacity to even consider Maaco.

I don't see the necessity to strip the entire car down to bare metal and would not pay the price. The car isn't THAT great.

[Paul T. Casey]

Remember Children, it's not about who's right or wrong, it's about what's less hurtful to the pocketbook.

This makes me sad. :shake:

[Paul T. Casey]

The bottom line here, to me anyway, is you have 9 to 10 year old cars that may or may not have a coating issue. How many of these cars have active corossion issues due to this? Everybody wants perfection without the cost. Forget it, you aren't getting it. My paint may not have been perfect, and after nearly 10 years of never in a garage, it may be worse. This does not lead me to believe I deserve a new and flawless paint job at no personal cost. Perhaps, if the coating failed to the point where I had holes in the body, maybe. The car is still 10 years old.

[Spectragod]

For a competitive price, to use in negotiations maybe. Curiosity possibly.
People ask me for prices on remodeling all the time that have no intention of hiring me to do the job.
Yeah, you were sarcastic. Like I'm being scolded for having the audacity to even consider Maaco.

I don't see the necessity to strip the entire car down to bare metal and would not pay the price. The car isn't THAT great.

Yep, plenty of tire kickers/time wasters out there. I don't operate like that, when I seek out a price, I am looking to buy.

I wasn't being sarcastic, but I can start if need be.

As far as not stripping thee car down, that is the shop's decision. If it were mine, I would, but that's just me. I agree, the car's not that great, that's why I'm going to make mine into a taxi.:D

[LOWBUCKMM]

Mine and Bradly G's 2004 had/has the bad paint. Ford would not fix it even under warranty. Pisses me of it sits in the garage all the time. I'm down for the law suit but I'm sure it will go no where.

[Bigdogjim]

You know as far as Maaco re-painting your car well I know people that just have the car re-painted every two years. The reason is for the price Maaco charges they no longer sweat the small dents and door dings.

Of course they are just DD but hay paint is paint to some people:)

[DaDog]

I have the same problem with my 03, that I bought right off the showroom floor. Finaly got some cash and am trying to get it back in shape. It started to look so bad I just stopped using it. Boy it didn't like sitting for so long now I've got my work cut out for me.:depress:

[tbone]

I wasn't being sarcastic, but I can start if need be.



Ok, then you're just rude.

[tbone]

Awesome, you should have them paint your car, I'm sure that you would be happy with the job.

I could have bought an ebay reman mod motor, but I felt better having Lidio build it, just think of the money that could have been saved.



:bs:Bite me.

[mrjones]

This talk about the Maaco paint reminds me of only buying the Ford axles. I can't imagine the Maaco paint job would be any worse than the original paint on my June 02 build car. It sucks. Parts of the car were repainted under warranty, but it's started to blister up again in the same spots. This is a car I'd hoped to keep forever, but I can't imagine how crappy it's going to look in 30 years. I guess I could do like some talked about above, and just consider a repaint every few years "routine maintenance" for this car.

[Vortech347]

This is why I sold my 03 and got an 04. Even after being repainted the pannels they didn't do under warranty started deteriorating badly.