Sick of Smoky startup - can I change valve seals with heads ON THE CAR?

[Ozz]

Greetings,
My '03 300A MM just passed 105k miles and instead of smoking on start up a half dozen times a month, it smokes like it's on fire every time it sits for over an hour.
As the norm, it only smokes for a few seconds (and I think only on the left side) but it's kind of embarrassing and I'd like to see if there's anything I can do WITHOUT REMOVING THE HEADS.

My guess is that I can remove the cams, etc and, if it's anything like my 5.0, I can hold the valves closed with air pressure while I carefully remove the springs and faulty seals.

I'll do a compression and leak down test prior to attacking the seals but assuming they are both fine...

Anybody ever tried this or am I just dreaming about a cheap solution that doesn't exist?

[bolsen]

I put a Metco Valve Breather on and it went away all together. Let me just say; I was a HEAVY smoker for over two years before. Now it's gone. It's been about a month and still good. $50 on Ebay, just make sure it's for a Marauder and not a Crown Vic.

[Ozz]

I put a Metco Valve Breather on and it went away all together. Let me just say; I was a HEAVY smoker for over two years before. Now it's gone. It's been about a month and still good. $50 on Ebay, just make sure it's for a Marauder and not a Crown Vic.

I looked at it and I can see how it might help if you have excess blow by and smoke while driving but I don't see how this would help with oil that runs down the valve stem when the engine is shut off...?

Did your engine just smoke at start up or all the time?

[SNOOT]

If your PCV system is getting old and plugged up installing the breather above will help reduce pressures positive and negative to reduce oil being pushed were it should not be.

[Ozz]

I changed my PCV a few thousand miles ago (part of my 100k service) so unless I have a lot of blow by, I don't think that's my problem.
I will check to see if I have oil in the line but assuming I do not, I think this is one of the typical 300A's with a bad left side head (seals &/or guides).

Thanks!

[tbone]

I put a Metco Valve Breather on and it went away all together. Let me just say; I was a HEAVY smoker for over two years before. Now it's gone. It's been about a month and still good. $50 on Ebay, just make sure it's for a Marauder and not a Crown Vic.

I found the page, but none are compatible. I thought the one at the bottom was it, but it says it is not.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=metco+valve+breath er&_sacat=0&_odkw=mercury+marauder+metco+v alve+breather&_osacat=0

[Odinson]

I put a Metco Valve Breather on and it went away all together. Let me just say; I was a HEAVY smoker for over two years before. Now it's gone. It's been about a month and still good. $50 on Ebay, just make sure it's for a Marauder and not a Crown Vic.

Really! I have to try this. I have the intermittent smoke cloud on startup after sitting a while (1hr+) post trilogy install. You could have made my exhaust into dry ice and put it into your drink before the install.

Putting that together with a comment about the PVC instruction being wrong on the trilogy instructions on another thread that may be my problem. Where do I connect the breather? In liu of the PVC or somewhere else?

Ozz perhaps your problem is not engine internals cause mine were spic and span before the install and the problem started day 2 with no performance problems associated.

Thanks!

[Ozz]

I'm tempted to try an oil separator in the PCV line. It would make sense if there is some oil in the line that it drains into the intake while the car sits. A separator would help but I'd have to remember to empty it...

I'll check the line tonight and see if it's wet.

I'm not a fan of putting a breather in the valve cover because any air that passes in (or out) is unmetered and can throw off the A/F ratio as the actual amout of air in the intake is more (less) than the MAF has measured.

[Odinson]

Something like this? It may be worth a shot.

http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS-Performance-Products/JEGS-Air-Oil-Separator/763433/10002/-1

[Odinson]

Even better check out this part's review

http://www.steeda.com/store/steeda-oil-separators-for-ford-mustang.html (http://www.steeda.com/store/steeda-oil-separators-for-ford-mustang.html#product-page-reviews)

"Does the job and looks great.

I installed a Steeda Oil Separator on my 2003 Mustang Cobra after installing a Whipple supercharger. When I took the stock supercharger the heat exchanger was coated in oil. It took 8 cans of brake parts cleaner to get it looking right again.

Seeing the oil that the Separator is collecting is great assurance that it is working. And the kit fits exactly and looks like it was installed at the factory. Having the collector clear (vs. Stainless Steel) allows you to see it is working and also lets you know when it needs emptied.

You won't find a better oil separator at this or any price point."

This exact setup sounds very familiar.

[Ozz]

Yea, I'm just shaking down my Paxton 1220 SL install on my '91 GT and I picked up a cheapo oil separator from Harbor Freight. I have only done a few short pulls but so far no oil in the bowl.
The Paxton kit has you put a fuel filter in the line just above the nipple on the oil fill and then further down the line I put the oil separator for added insurance. The filter is positioned so that it will drain back into the oil filler but I'll have to manually drain the separator bowl.

If I have oil in my MM's pcv line I will certainly be spending a few $ on a separator to see if it helps get rid of the smoke.

Thanks.

[bolsen]

I looked at it and I can see how it might help if you have excess blow by and smoke while driving but I don't see how this would help with oil that runs down the valve stem when the engine is shut off...?

Did your engine just smoke at start up or all the time?

Start up, and it was A LOT! I assume that once the excess oil in my intake burned out, the pressure relief from the breather stopped the oil from re-entering the system as blow-by.

That was my hope when I installed it, and I think that is EXACTLY what happened.

It smoked every startup very bad until I installed the breather. That is the only change I made.

[bolsen]

This is the one you want. It has the "screw" bottom and NOT the "helix".

SCREW - Marauder
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metco-MBR0013-2003-2004-Mustang-Valve-Cover-Breather-/120886427231?pt=Motors_Car_Tru ck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c25647e5f&vxp=mtr

HELIX - Crown Vic
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metco-MBR0006-GM-TPI-Valve-Cover-Breather-/310391032101?pt=Motors_Car_Tru ck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4844bf4925&vxp=mtr

The "screw" works for the Mustang and Maruader, and the "helix" works for the CV.

[kernie]

The past 2 oil changes i have used valvoline max life synthetic blend with 3\4 a bottle of bardahl no smoke plus stop leak.

It has cut my startup smoking down by at least 75% to the point that it doesn't bother me at all, no more clouds, just a puff here and there. Oil consumption is also down to only a quart added between 5k mile changes. I don't add anymore no smoke between changes.

Flame suit on, i know people think the no smoke is 'snake oil that will eat my motor', not my experience, runs great.

:beer:

[Odinson]

Sorry to be a dunce, but where would stick this breather? In the PVC hole? Do you replace a stock breather with it?

I always understood PVC to be a vacuum balancing mechanism. Makes sense to me that the greater the difference in airflow (like positive displacement) the more gunk could be swept up in that airflow. I don't mind the balance being resolved within the sealed system, just the gunk that goes with it. PVC oil separator could fix that.

What do you think?

[tbone]

It goes in the oil filler hole in lieu of the cap.

[Odinson]

It goes in the oil filler hole in lieu of the cap.

Got it, thanks.

Last time I installed a non stock breather was on my 66 impala.

I may do both. 1 step at a time.

[RF Overlord]

My guess is that I can remove the cams, etc and, if it's anything like my 5.0, I can hold the valves closed with air pressure while I carefully remove the springs and faulty seals.

Anybody ever tried this or am I just dreaming about a cheap solution that doesn't exist?IIRC the problem was with the guides, not the seals.

[bolsen]

Sorry to be a dunce, but where would stick this breather? In the PVC hole? Do you replace a stock breather with it?

I always understood PVC to be a vacuum balancing mechanism. Makes sense to me that the greater the difference in airflow (like positive displacement) the more gunk could be swept up in that airflow. I don't mind the balance being resolved within the sealed system, just the gunk that goes with it. PVC oil separator could fix that.

What do you think?

Replace the stock oil cap with the breather.

[Ozz]

I checked my PCV tube and there did seem to be some oil in there. I may try putting an oil seperator in line before I put on a breather (don't want to allow unmetered air into the system).

Thanks for all the replies.

[bolsen]

No unmetered air enters through the oil cap. Just allows pressure out. There is a huge difference between installing a breather in the PCV and installing a breather in the oil cap. Look into it. My mirror is ruining great,.and no smoke, no hassles.

[ctrlraven]

Thanks for the ebay link for the breather, I think I might pick one up.

[Ozz]

bolson,
I'm sure it's not a lot but any time you allow air in to or out of the crank case, it's 'unmetered'.
I think you're saying that the breather that some have linked to only lets air out if the PCV system can't 'suck it up' fast enough but that air is blow by - which came from the intake - which was metered at some point.

Not trying to split hairs here but there is a reason why the crank case is a sealed system on EFI cars - and it's so that all air that goes through the MAF eventually goes through the exhaust - even if it loops the PCV system a time or two.

This may not be a big deal on NA cars but on my supercharged Mustang, I was told that under no circumstances should my blow off valve let air out of the system. Instead it is looped back to the intake right behind the MAF (so it's not metered twice).

On the MM I'm betting that the O2 sensors have enough leeway so that if a little air escapes or enters the system that's unmetered, they can have the computer adjust the A/F ratio - so it's all good.

Personally, I'm going to try the oil separater first - I can set it up for under $25 with a Harbor Freight separater: (http://www.harborfreight.com/air-tools/air-tool-accessories/12-standard-air-filter-68279.html). On my Mustang I removed the 'push button' drain and installed a regular threaded drain. No problems so far.

Thanks!

[babbage]

Greetings,
My '03 300A MM just passed 105k miles and instead of smoking on start up a half dozen times a month, it smokes like it's on fire every time it sits for over an hour.
As the norm, it only smokes for a few seconds (and I think only on the left side) but it's kind of embarrassing and I'd like to see if there's anything I can do WITHOUT REMOVING THE HEADS.

My guess is that I can remove the cams, etc and, if it's anything like my 5.0, I can hold the valves closed with air pressure while I carefully remove the springs and faulty seals.

I'll do a compression and leak down test prior to attacking the seals but assuming they are both fine...

Anybody ever tried this or am I just dreaming about a cheap solution that doesn't exist?


You aren't dreaming.

Smoke at start is caused by worn seals. Auto-Rx http://www.auto-rx.com/ will clean and recondition them, without taking off the heads. No more smoke on start. Yes get a good oil separator for the PCV afterwards.

There are a lot of other Marauders that could benefit from this.

[CBT]

Even better check out this part's review

http://www.steeda.com/store/steeda-oil-separators-for-ford-mustang.html (http://www.steeda.com/store/steeda-oil-separators-for-ford-mustang.html#product-page-reviews)





This is what I have. And it DO catch oil, I installed prior to Louisville this year, it was full when I got back home to Hampton, VA.

[CBT]

Check this out, combine the oil separator with a vent cap.

29516

[CBT]

Routing:

29517

[Ozz]

babbage,
I have used Auto-RX. It's been awhile since I did a full treatment though. I usually add 2 oz. when I change oil.
It did seem to work the first time though.

CBT,
Nice idea. What is that thing?
I'll look into that too.

[GetMeMyStogie]

bolson,
I'm sure it's not a lot but any time you allow air in to or out of the crank case, it's 'unmetered'.
I think you're saying that the breather that some have linked to only lets air out if the PCV system can't 'suck it up' fast enough but that air is blow by - which came from the intake - which was metered at some point.

Not trying to split hairs here but there is a reason why the crank case is a sealed system on EFI cars - and it's so that all air that goes through the MAF eventually goes through the exhaust - even if it loops the PCV system a time or two.

This may not be a big deal on NA cars but on my supercharged Mustang, I was told that under no circumstances should my blow off valve let air out of the system. Instead it is looped back to the intake right behind the MAF (so it's not metered twice).

On the MM I'm betting that the O2 sensors have enough leeway so that if a little air escapes or enters the system that's unmetered, they can have the computer adjust the A/F ratio - so it's all good.

Personally, I'm going to try the oil separater first - I can set it up for under $25 with a Harbor Freight separater: (http://www.harborfreight.com/air-tools/air-tool-accessories/12-standard-air-filter-68279.html). On my Mustang I removed the 'push button' drain and installed a regular threaded drain. No problems so far.

Thanks!

I think you're confusing a blow-off Valve with crankcase blow-by. A blow-off valve redirects fresh pressurized intake air, from after the supercharger, which has been measured by the MAS. In contrast, the PCV system allows crankcase pressure (aka. blow-by, aka burnt exhaust gasses which leaked past the piston rings into the crankcase where the motor oil is splashing about) to vent somewhere. The reason the PCV system is closed is to prevent raw exhaust gasses exiting the engine compartment at the front of the vehicle, where it might enter the cabin. Also, these gasses have bypassed the catalytic converters, and may be high in hydrocarbons. Sending these gasses back through the combustion cycle gives them a chance to burn more completely, sparing the air we breathe.
No air enters the crankcase during normal engine operation. Some air might be pulled in while running very high vacuum, such as a high-rpm closed throttle condition, but this would be minute amounts that aren't going to affect the air/fuel ratio in any significant way.
Actually, air entering the intake tract from the PCV system is technically 'unmetered', since it's not being measured by anything. However, since these gasses displace fresh air, the MAS will see correspondingly less air passing through. Redirecting the PCV to atmosphere should result in a slight increase in MAS flow, and a bit more fuel flow to match. I don't know if it would be significant enough to notice, though.
Air is measured ('metered') so the computer knows how much fuel to send via the injectors. Blow-back air is fresh air and the computer WILL send the fuel necessary to match what it measured. If your blow-back valve vented to atmosphere, you'd get severe dips in the air/fuel ratio each time it happens, possibly sending raw fuel out the exhaust if there wasn't enough air to burn what the computer thought was the right amount of fuel.

I hope that clears things up a bit.

[Ozz]

Perhaps we agree but for different reasons. I say that all the air - even the recycled PCV air, that replaces some of the fresh inlet air, has been accounted for by the MAF and should remain in the closed loop system for optimal performance.

That said, this air will be oxygen poor and hydrocarbon rich which will tend to skew the combustion event toward the rich side.
Exactly what we want at WOT I guess! ;)

[BODYMAN]

Considering you have a 03 300A, It is very likely it is valve seals, I had them go bad on my 1st 03 early build, Not a simple job either.

[Chevyguy]

Replace the stock oil cap with the breather.

You have to remove the PCV to run a breather like that as you will otherwise draw in unmetered air into the engine. If you remove the PCV you need some other type of crankcase ventilation, a road draft tube or a vacuum pump.

[Ozz]

You have to remove the PCV to run a breather like that as you will otherwise draw in unmetered air into the engine. If you remove the PCV you need some other type of crankcase ventilation, a road draft tube or a vacuum pump.

Chevyguy,
I'm with you on this but there was some discussion earlier about PCV air not being 'metered air'. I say it is, others say no. My logic tells me that if it's not metered air when it goes back to the engine a 2nd time, then it should go through the MAF. It does not and therefore has already been accounted for by the computer.

On a completely different subject - I thought 300A's were ONLY the early 2003 cars... With adjustable pedals, dash clock, pouch on front of seat, no traction control, no heated seats... you say your '04 is a 300A but it has heated seats. Can it be a 300A? I could be wrong but I don't think it's an A.

[Blackmobile]

IIRC 300A were made in 2003, then part way through manufacturing they started making 300B. Then in 2004, all MM were 300A

[Ozz]

Ahhhh.... I didn't know that. You learn something new every day I guess... :)

[Blackmobile]

I still miss the seat pockets that aren't in my 04 300A. I always drop my wallet on the floor.

[Ozz]

I'd trade my seats with pockets for ones with heat any day...
I bet you don't get much use out of bun warmers in south Fla so I can see why you'd want pockets back.

[CBT]

I'd trade my seats with pockets for ones with heat any day...
I bet you don't get much use out of bun warmers in south Fla so I can see why you'd want pockets back.


I'd don't have pockets or heat on mine. :alone:

[Ozz]

I'd don't have pockets or heat on mine. :alone:

Well , that's not right... I always thought it was a trade off - lose pockets, clock, etc and get heated seats and traction control.
Must have been an option later on.
I don't think there were any options on the 300A's in '03.

[Odinson]

http://mustangboards.com/modular-4-6l-tech/41020-pcv-system-questions.html

OK looks like PVC/crankcase air is definitely metered. So some variation of closed filtration is the way to go.

Seems oil airation may be causing the problem. Mine was so day and night because of the larger pressure changes/faster revs/higher power.

Still not ruling out the breather, I will bounce it off of JDM as they are in on this. Ordered the steeda. I'm not always under the hood so the clear bottom will remind me to dump the waste. Hasn't smoked on start in a couple of weeks, but I'm sure it will be back if this isn't the problem. I'll post to this thread post install if the smoking persists.

[Ozz]

Thanks for finding that link Odinson, it makes a lot more sense explained there.

[Odinson]

:beer::2thumbs:

[JimmyXR7]

This is the one you want. It has the "screw" bottom and NOT the "helix".

SCREW - Marauder
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metco-MBR0013-2003-2004-Mustang-Valve-Cover-Breather-/120886427231?pt=Motors_Car_Tru ck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c25647e5f&vxp=mtr

HELIX - Crown Vic

The "screw" works for the Mustang and Maruader, and the "helix" works for the CV.

I purchased my 'new' marauder 2 months ago. Even though the 2003A MM has only 25000 miles on it, it had the blue smoke at start-up, multiple times. My 2003B had 76700 miles and never smoked. I purchased the breather and the start-up smoke has not yet re-occurred in the last few weeks.
Jim

[robertmee]

Putting that together with a comment about the PVC instruction being wrong on the trilogy instructions on another thread that may be my problem. Where do I connect the breather? In liu of the PVC or somewhere else?



Can someone elaborate on the wrong instructions for Trilogy or point me to a thread? I have a trilogy install and get the puff of blue smoke on startup. Going to likely install the Steeda PCV filter, but want to make sure my install is correct to begin with.

[71cyclone]

I found the page, but none are compatible. I thought the one at the bottom was it, but it says it is not.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=metco+valve+breath er&_sacat=0&_odkw=mercury+marauder+metco+v alve+breather&_osacat=0
WWW. JLT. com The metco breather less than 50 bucks and delivered within 24-36 hours to your door :banana2: [ Yes they sell the Famous JLT cold air intake for the MM ]

[71cyclone]

http://mustangboards.com/modular-4-6l-tech/41020-pcv-system-questions.html

OK looks like PVC/crankcase air is definitely metered. So some variation of closed filtration is the way to go.

Seems oil airation may be causing the problem. Mine was so day and night because of the larger pressure changes/faster revs/higher power.

Still not ruling out the breather, I will bounce it off of JDM as they are in on this. Ordered the steeda. I'm not always under the hood so the clear bottom will remind me to dump the waste. Hasn't smoked on start in a couple of weeks, but I'm sure it will be back if this isn't the problem. I'll post to this thread post install if the smoking persists.
The Muscle Mercs catch can will work on your car :beer:

[robertmee]

The Muscle Mercs catch can will work on your car :beer:

It appears Sparta Performance is putting together a group buy on a PCV filter system....

[babbage]

The Muscle Mercs catch can will work on your car :beer:

and let oil into your upper - would not recommend. I had one -- no good. CTLRAVEN, birdman also had a musclemerc catch can that did not work. Its a poor design.