Rotors and pads???

[Colt]

At work I drive CVPI's and notice that they seem to stop better than my 04 Marauder (granted they are all newer for the most).

The CVPI's seem to start stopping when the peddal starts to be pressed and stops a little better.

My Marauder needs a bit of peddle travel before you feel it start to stop.

So I bought some TCE stainless lines, and am looking at rotors and pads.

I drive a little bit in bad stop and go traffic, and like some spirited driving from time to time.

The Power Slot Cryo rotors I think are what I will get (90% set on them).

The pads are looking like Hawk, but wonder if some type of fleet/heavy duty pads might be better.

Anyone know what set up might work best for rotor and pad combo with our heavy cars or what you my like or not like?

Thanks.

[MMBLUE]

Good choice on rotors. I got the power stops myself. I go with the NAPA ceramics with that combo. Less dust good stop. ;)

[crownvic05]

3 weeks ago i installed R1concepts smooth rotors and raybestos advanced police brake pads on all 4 corners. So far, i am loving them. Extreamly quite with no noise and brakeing seems extreamly well and way better over stock. Little brake dust(less then Hawk pads). I would recommand the pads.

Bought them amazon.com at a great price to.
http://www.amazon.com/Raybestos-ATD931P-Advanced-Technology-Semi-Metallic/dp/B0015SBILQ/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1342531556&sr=8-9&keywords=raybestos+brake+pads

http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq295/isatisfy2003/IMG-20120712-006351.jpg
http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq295/isatisfy2003/IMG-20120712-006341.jpg

[crownvic05]

by the way, this was installed in my 05 crown vic lx sport.

[fastblackmerc]

I'd check with KNS, a vendor on the site.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=123

[Mr. Man]

At work I drive CVPI's and notice that they seem to stop better than my 04 Marauder (granted they are all newer for the most).

The CVPI's seem to start stopping when the pedal starts to be pressed and stops a little better.

My Marauder needs a bit of peddle travel before you feel it start to stop.

So I bought some TCE stainless lines, and am looking at rotors and pads.

I drive a little bit in bad stop and go traffic, and like some spirited driving from time to time.

The Power Slot Cryo rotors I think are what I will get (90% set on them).

The pads are looking like Hawk, but wonder if some type of fleet/heavy duty pads might be better.

Anyone know what set up might work best for rotor and pad combo with our heavy cars or what you my like or not like?

Thanks.
Have the same issue but it's between an '03 and an '04 MM. The '03 with OEM brakes starts biting as soon as you barely touch the brake pedal. The '04 you need to push down a bit before it bites.

I recently changed the '04's brakes with Frozen Rotors Cryo (slotted) and Hawk pads in the blue box, did the TCE lines as well. I was anticipating results like the "03 but have sponge feel. I was wondering if there might be air in the line or something. Idea's from the peanut gallery appreciated and I think they might help the OP as well with his ????. :)

[fastblackmerc]

Have the same issue but it's between an '03 and an '04 MM. The '03 with OEM brakes starts biting as soon as you barely touch the brake pedal. The '04 you need to push down a bit before it bites.

I recently changed the '04's brakes with Frozen Rotors Cryo (slotted) and Hawk pads in the blue box, did the TCE lines as well. I was anticipating results like the "03 but have sponge feel. I was wondering if there might be air in the line or something. Idea's from the peanut gallery appreciated and I think they might help the OP as well with his ????. :)

You probably have air in the lines. The TCE SS lines should make the pedal feel like your trying to compress a brick.

[Colt]

3 weeks ago i installed R1concepts smooth rotors and raybestos advanced police brake pads on all 4 corners. So far, i am loving them. Extreamly quite with no noise and brakeing seems extreamly well and way better over stock. Little brake dust(less then Hawk pads). I would recommand the pads.

Bought them amazon.com at a great price to.
http://www.amazon.com/Raybestos-ATD931P-Advanced-Technology-Semi-Metallic/dp/B0015SBILQ/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1342531556&sr=8-9&keywords=raybestos+brake+pads

http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq295/isatisfy2003/IMG-20120712-006351.jpg


I like the idea of those pads. Not keen on ceramics, and fleet type pads tend to work well and last. I was trying to recall the different fleet/HD pad makers.

[Colt]

Have the same issue but it's between an '03 and an '04 MM. The '03 with OEM brakes starts biting as soon as you barely touch the brake pedal. The '04 you need to push down a bit before it bites.

I recently changed the '04's brakes with Frozen Rotors Cryo (slotted) and Hawk pads in the blue box, did the TCE lines as well. I was anticipating results like the "03 but have sponge feel. I was wondering if there might be air in the line or something. Idea's from the peanut gallery appreciated and I think they might help the OP as well with his ????. :)

Might be the 04's. I get a strange feel when I push the brake all the way down. Dealer said it was normal. I hope the stainless lines help a little, and might see what fluid I can use. Last change of brake fluid I think the dealer used Heavy Duty Ford, reported to be better than regular Ford... Dont know if i want the blue and gold fluids.

[Colt]

I found this intresting (edited for just main info);



Police Brake Pad Testing

Brakes for police vehicles are certainly a controversial topic. Everyone seems to have a different opinion on what is best. The officer wants the best stopping performance yet will complain about the noise when trying to stalk silently with the vehicle. The fleet manager wants pads that will last seemingly forever, saving the cost of installation labor. The purchasing agent wants the lowest cost brake components that can possibly fill the role. The auto manufacturers want you to use pads that they designed specifically for police use. The aftermarket manufacturers want you to use their pads, which may emphasize different priorities than the automakers.

All brake pads are a complex compromise of more than a dozen factors.

California Highway Patrol

3,500 vehicles in its fleet, the CHP has extensive experience in operating and maintaining emergency vehicles. When the 2003 Ford CVPI with the new braking system went into service, the CHP did extensive testing to find the best police pad.

On the Crown Victoria made before 2003, the CHP found the OE rear brakes became overheated on the pursuit driving course. To cure the problem, officials went to carbon metallic pads on the rear, with good results. When the 2003 models went into service, the CHP experienced different brake issues. Ford had redesigned the suspension on the 2003 CVPI for better handling. The redesign moved the axles outward, forcing Ford to redesign the road wheels, which ended up shrouding the brake assemblies, thus trapping excessive heat.

The CHP used its standard specification brake-testing procedure, which consists of eight stops from 90 mph, with a two-minute cool-down period in between tests. After this evaluation, the brakes were then allowed to cool for five minutes for brake pad evaluation. Then the vehicle was driven for two laps through the CHP’s 7-mile pursuit simulation course.

For this evaluation, the CHP only used two types of brake pads. One was the OE semi-metallic pads made by TMD Friction. The other was a carbon metallic pad that the CHP had run on earlier CVPIs (prior to 2003).

Peak rotor temperatures ranged from between 1,000 and 1,400 deg F, regardless of which type of pad was used. However, pad temperatures differed greatly. Temperatures of the carbon metallic pads were high. Front pads measured 750 deg F while the rear pad temperatures were 675 deg F. Temperatures of the OE pads (3WIZ-2001-BA, front; 3WIX-2200-AA, rear) ran a lot cooler. The front OE pads were 450 deg F and the rear OE pads ran 320 deg F.

Wear was about equal for both brands of pads, however, the vehicle running carbon metallic pads exhibited signs of excess heat, necessitating replacement of brake pads, rotors and even front calipers, while the vehicle running OE pads showed no visible defects.

The driver operating the vehicle equipped with carbon metallic pads observed noticeable brake fade setting in after the third stop from 90 mph, which required steering corrections in order to stay within its lane. Brake fade was also observed during the pursuit course, and by the end of the course, the brake fade was severe.

The driver testing the car equipped with OE pads observed that the braking efficiency remained constant during the high-speed stops. Only toward the end of the pursuit course did the brakes begin to lose efficiency. However, the loss of efficiency occurred in a gradual and predictable manner.

CHP settled on OE pads, both front and rear, as replacement pads on its enforcement class sedans. The agency is experiencing good results with this decision.

CHP also routinely flushes the brake systems, completely replacing the brake fluid at 30,000 miles.

Houston Police Department

Working in conjunction with Ford Fleet, the city of Houston conducted brake tests to determine the best pad for its police department to use. Using in-service police vehicles, it compared Wagner brand pads (Federal Mogul) against Motorcraft OE pads against aftermarket Motorcraft Super Duty pads.

As a surprise to some, the OE pads averaged 18,676 miles between changes. In contrast, both the Motorcraft Super Duty pad and the aftermarket Wagner Severeduty pad had an average life span of just under 15,000 miles. Actually, this isn’t surprising. Since 2004, the initial new vehicle warranty from Ford covers the OE brake pads up to 18,000 miles, even in police service.

Los Angeles County Sheriff

The LASD is a large agency that provides police services to an area about the size of Connecticut. Part of its vehicle testing program involves its 1.57-mile high-speed preliminary handling test, where the vehicle is wrung around this course for 32 laps. Only those vehicles with strong brakes and good handling survive.

Using its standard patrol vehicle—the Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor—the tests were conducted using the criteria it used during its annual police vehicle tests.

Among the pads tested were OE semi-metallic pads (TMD Friction), as well as Motorcraft SuperDuty, which is Ford’s heavy-duty aftermarket pad. Other aftermarket pads include Raybestos Superstop, Wagner Severeduty (Federal Mogul) and a carbon metallic pad. This was a “blind” test, meaning that the test drivers and mechanics did not know what brands of brake components were being tested as brand names were removed and the components given a code number. To keep the tests unbiased, only LASD Fleet Management personnel knew what brand and/or variations were being tested.

To measure stopping distance, the test vehicle is accelerated to 90 mph and the brakes are applied to maintain a deceleration rate of 22 fps, which is close to ABS activation. This test is repeated twice. The vehicle is allowed to sit stationary for five minutes, allowing the brakes to cool down. After the cool-down, the vehicle is accelerated to a speed of 60 mph and is decelerated at a maximum rate, again, just short of ABS activation.

This procedure is repeated twice. After a two-minute cool-down period, the vehicle again is accelerated to 60 mph and the vehicle is stopped to simulate a “panic-stop” with ABS activation. All of the brake testing was conducted in the same area of a smooth portion of the asphalt track surface, thus maintaining the same coefficient of friction during the testing.

The final test is the pursuit course, a 2.45-mile pursuit simulation in an urban environment.

The LASD’s overall braking evaluation was a combination of measured stopping distances, mechanical inspection and measurement of all the braking components, and the driver’s subjective comments on brake performance.

The results of the testing showed the OE pad and the Motorcraft Super Duty pad had the same stopping performance, but the Motorcraft pad lasted a little longer. In the Los Angeles area, the retail cost of Motorcraft Super Duty front pads and OE front pads are within $2.25 of each other, essentially a tie. Overall, the Wagner Severeduty pad had the best performance.

The LASD came up with three brake pads approved for marked black and white patrol vehicles. With over 4,300 vehicles in their fleet, cost is a major issue. The vendor that maintains their vehicles is given the latitude to fit the appropriate pad matching the service the vehicle receives. The majority are fitted with either Wagner Severeduty, Motorcraft or OE semi-metallic pads, depending on the exact costs at the time of replacement.

Michigan State Police

The MSP is another innovative agency that extensively conducts vehicle testing. Longstanding Michigan State Police policy has been to stick with OE components.

San Francisco Police

The city of San Francisco—with all of its hills—has one of the toughest environments that a police vehicle will ever experience. The brakes take a beating on SFPD cruisers. In fact, San Francisco is second to only New York City in harshness on the police suspension and brake components. The SFPD brake pad replacement policy is simple…use the OE parts.

Other departments that use OE pads or OE aftermarket pads include the New York State Police, who put 73 million miles on their vehicles each year.

At the very least, use the aftermarket pads with the same “kind” of compounds as the OE pads, i.e., semi-metallic pads and not carbon metallic, not retail ceramic and not retail non-asbestos organic.

[REAL4WD]

Thank you for posting that! Very interesting read!

[babbage]

DBA4000 series rotors and hawk HPS pads is the best with out going bigger, wilwoods, baer kits etc..

DBA4000 and Hawk setup stops better than everything else I've had, including OEM, Motorcraft severe duty, Command Automotive cyro rotors etc.

You pay for what you get... Got them from Ken @ KNS an MM vendor..

[Dobs]

Thanks Colt, im surprised they didnt mention anything about rotors btw.

[Colt]

Thanks Colt, im surprised they didnt mention anything about rotors btw.

A little was mentioned.

Rotors do not warp from heat, they have issues due to quality control (pulse felt that many think is warped), worn pads (ignoring the sound of the worn pads on the rotors), and other issues with dirt/sand/debries getting into the pad/rotor area.

Rotors tend to last 100,000+ miles in Police use (around the max miles of many police cars).

Police cars turned taxi cabs have gone 200,000 miles on orginal rotors.

Rotors should be able to go several pad changes before being turned/trued, and should be able to be turned/trued a few times in their life.

All types of rotors tend to have the exact same stopping power when doing 60-0 MPH stops on cold rotors. But when doing multipul stops or ABS type stops performance rotors hold up better.

Some departments use cryo or coated rotors to replace worn OEM (some say higher end police rotors can give 300% more life!).

I do a bit of stop and go driving around the Fort Hood TX area and Austin TX. I know my car is heavy, and I know I have done a few panic stops due to wrecks. I have never hit ABS, but would like to have more security in stopping. If I want to ride sprited, I want to know that I am n ot going to damage anything. Cryo rotos seem to hold up well. The pads seem to be the real workers though. I think semi-metallic pads are the way to go if you need good stopping. Many fleet pads tend to be quite, and one thing I read mentioned about you want a pad thats quite when you slow or stop, but makes noise and feels like hell when you make a hard stop. It mentioned about how you want to feel and hear the pads as they clap on the rotor and make what sounds like grinding and failure as it brings you to a quick halt. The way it read made sence, and is what i am looking at.

Semi-metallic pads seem like the key. The Hawk and fleet pads have my attention now (Reybestos, Wagner, and some others I will be looking hard at).

Rotors seem more trivial. Cryo seems to work well, as does the DBA set up style. I was thinking the Power Slot Cryo's were the way, now I need to look at other options (slots are in, but cryo vs treatments vs coatings I guess will be looked at).

http://www.dba.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/KP_PAGE.jpg

http://www.raybestos.com/wps/wcm/connect/04f5d3004ec8c3deaa01bf22e64e9c 76/Half+Rotor_300X-crop.jpg?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=04f5d3004ec8c3deaa01bf 22e64e9c76

[ReefBlueCoupe]

OEM PI pads and OEM rotors on my car. No complaints here about the stopping performance. I do not have braided steel hoses on my brakes on this car, but I have had them on other cars and they definitely have a more positive feel to them. If I planned on keeping my car very long, I would install them.

[Colt]

DBA4000 series rotors and hawk HPS pads is the best with out going bigger, wilwoods, baer kits etc..

DBA4000 and Hawk setup stops better than everything else I've had, including OEM, Motorcraft severe duty, Command Automotive cyro rotors etc.

You pay for what you get... Got them from Ken @ KNS an MM vendor..

Is there a set size/model number? I only found rear rotors for the 2003-05 CV/MM thru DBA.

[babbage]

Is there a set size/model number? I only found rear rotors for the 2003-05 CV/MM thru DBA.


Got them from Ken @ KNS an MM vendor.. Give Ken a call, 919-420-0021 I think he has these in stock.

[BCMARAUDING]

Autoanything.com has a set of Powerstop vented/sloted rotors and pads front and rear for $433........good deal?

Or does Ken have a better setup with the DBA4000 and Hawk pads?

[babbage]

Autoanything.com has a set of Powerstop vented/sloted rotors and pads front and rear for $433........good deal?

Or does Ken have a better setup with the DBA4000 and Hawk pads?

Spend the extra on the DBA + Hawk kit from Ken at KNS, then get stainless lines from Todd at TCE. I've had all kinds of other rotors on the MM and CV including cryo with severe duty pads etc.. . The DBA 4000 and Hawk HPS are the best you can get before going bigger IMHO. Stop distance is super short with little pedal effort. I'd say it feels twice as good as factory OEM brakes.

Better would be the big Baer and Wilwood kits for much more $$. I still need to run 17" wheels so no big brakes for me yet.

[BCMARAUDING]

Spend the extra on the DBA + Hawk kit from Ken at KNS, then get stainless lines from Todd at TCE. I've had all kinds of other rotors on the MM and CV including cryo with severe duty pads etc.. . The DBA 4000 and Hawk HPS are the best you can get before going bigger IMHO. Stop distance is super short with little pedal effort. I'd say it feels twice as good as factory OEM brakes.

Better would be the big Baer and Wilwood kits for much more $$. I still need to run 17" wheels so no big brakes for me yet.

Ok, I was leaning that way and givin some love to mm.net vendors is always good! Thanks for the help!!

[babbage]

You are welcome, post back here what you think! I'm sure you will like them. Dont forget the SS line kit.