On a more serious note...

[MI2QWK4U]

I dont know what to say, do you guys? Read the link. I for one have seen too many stories like this. In 14 years I have seen several Detroit officers, Troopers, local officers killed in the line of duty. I can speak to this on a personal level, since one of my coworkers was shot and killed 3 years ago this week. These folks work hard, and do the best they can. I get a little steamed when wanna be's and morons cheapen the job that these two young officers died upholding. Thanks for enduring my rambling!

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/2850517/detail.html

[bigslim]

I saw this story today. They did the most wrong thing they could do. They turned their backs on the suspects. Never take anything for granted. My heart goes out to their families and friends.

[03SILVERSTREAK]

Its unfortunate and saddened to hear about this shooting. my heart go's out to the families that lost a loved one at the hands of a low life scumbag(forgive me but I get angry about these kinds of shootings). I know first hand of the dangers of car stops. down in the city in the Bronx there was a shooting involving a stolen Lexus in which the perp after being chased , crashed ,then ran with a uniformed Officer in foot pursuit ,caught up to him and a struggle insued , perp wrestled the gun from the Officer and shot him 2-times. when back up arrived , the perp was stupid enough to point the Officer's gun at them to wit they provided the perp a shower of copper and lead. Of course after that ,he expired at the scene. Tuff Luck but he lead a punk's Life. :uzi:

[BillyGman]

I was never a Police officer, however I have a lot of respect for many police officers, and I also have family on the force as well. You guys on here who are on the force please point something out to me here if I'm missing something, but that report seems a little vague. For instance, how is it that the male officer had time to radio for help, but didn't have time to simply draw his gun and shoot that low-life? I mean, he had every justifiable reason to do so, since the perpetrator was armed, and had alreay shot the female officer who happened to be sitting in the very same car as the male one was. Right? Even if there were two squad cars there, if you're an officer carrying a firearm, then why would you waste time to even reach for your radio immediately after hearing the gunfire only a matter of feet away from you that left your fellow officer down (dead or not)????? If the male officer had time to radio for help, and then exit the car only to get shot to death himself, then he had more than enough time to draw his best friend (his weapon) and pull the trigger to stop the criminal, even if he had to shoot the guy through the windshield of his vehicle. Right or wrong?

[03SILVERSTREAK]

I was never a Police officer, however I have a lot of respect for many police officers, and I also have family on the force as well. You guys on here who are on the force please point something out to me here if I'm missing something, but that report seems a little vague. For instance, how is it that the male officer had time to radio for help, but didn't have time to simply draw his gun and shoot that low-life? I mean, he had every justifiable reason to do so, since the perpetrator was armed, and had alreay shot the female officer who happened to be sitting in the very same car as the male one was. Right? Even if there were two squad cars there, if you're an officer carrying a firearm, then why would you waste time to even reach for your radio immediately after hearing the gunfire only a matter of feet away from you that left your fellow officer down (dead or not)????? If the male officer had time to radio for help, and then exit the car only to get shot to death himself, then he had more than enough time to draw his best friend (his weapon) and pull the trigger to stop the criminal. Right or wrong?
The news always never reports the entire story cause on-scene investigators never tell them down to the moment details due to the on going investigation. I also have some questions in my mind, but I know enough that 2-officers are gone and I hope that person or persons involved , convicted are excucuted for the 1st o Capital offense...

[DetGeno]

:fire: Unfortunately I'll be attending the services. For all LEO's out there, remember there is no such thing as a "ROUTING" traffic stop!

RULE #1 - I remember in the academy when one of the instructor asked the recruits this question: Who will most likely take your life away during a routing traffic stop and don't use the statistics in mind? A) A Young Black Male or B) A Middle-Age White Female? And I remember that most everyone in the class have voted "A" by pre-judging. But the instructor proof us wrong! As a peace officer you should have your guards up no matter what. You will most likely be blown away by the Middle-Age White Female because you think she's harmless and used more caution on the black male. Let that be a lesson to be learned to "NEVER LEAVE YOUR GUARD DOWN!"

RULE #2 - Most patrol cars now days have laptops or MDCs. USE THEM! Not only they provide information on the tags but also the owner's info, such as driving record....CCW....Warrants....a rrest records....officer safety warnings. The more you know about the vehicle that you're about to pull over the safer you'll be. For this case IF the young officers would of ran the plate prior to approach the vehicle, they've would of known that the owner of the truck have outstanding Warrants. They've might of used more caution on the "ROUTING TRAFFIC STOP"! I've seen too many officers making the 50 yard dash to the driver's window after stopping a vehicle without knowing who they're pulling over! That is just too scary. The technology is here "USE IT!"

[Patrick]

Ramble on My friend!!!

And all in this group should. And I just might.

Most of us only deal with police officers when we or sumtins gone bad. So we think they are out to get us. Far from the truth. I was an MP for eight years. And DAM proud of it!!!!!!My heart goes out to them and thier famalies!

Until all the details are known on what EXACTLY happen I will not commet. But never your guard down. Their is never a routine traffic stop, RULE #1!!!!!!

To all in law enforcement and fire departmant, I THANK YOU EVERY DAY FOR YOUR EFFORTS!!!!!!!!!!!! :up: Keep up the good work.

And last ""THANK YOU"" :bows: :bows: :bows:

[Paul T. Casey]

I have a brother who is an LEO. I pray for his safety on a daily basis. It takes a special type of person to do this job, one with qualities that I do not have. My heart goes out to the families of these officers.

[merc406]

Dave, sorry to hear of the loss of a friend and co-worker. The job you have entails all of life's events with the public, good and bad. It takes a special person to take it on. Cheers to the Men and Women that can do it.
What happened in Detroit can happen anywhere anytime, be safe, their's more good people out there than bad and luckily this doesn't happen very often.

[TAF]

I hope Michigan practices mandatory capitol punishment for anyone involved and convicted in the death of an LEO.


My heart goes out to the family of these 2 young officers...I can't tell you how much I respect those of you in the field of protecting the rest of us.

[merc406]

I hope Michigan practices mandatory capitol punishment for anyone involved and convicted in the death of an LEO.


My heart goes out to the family of these 2 young officers...I can't tell you how much I respect those of you in the field of protecting the rest of us.


We don't have that option ( yet) but that, C/Punishment, should be for anyone that takes anothers life away, that is with clear evidence a person committed the act.
My own feeling is the person should get the same thing done to them that they did to the victim.

[DetGeno]

More on this:

http://www.detnews.com/2004/metro/0402/17/a01-67129.htm

:fire: :fire: :fire:

[gja]

Two words,
Death penalty.

[MapleLeafMerc]

Another tragic story of those on the front line dying doing their duty. Every time I hear a story like this, I struggle to come up with a solution, as pointless as that might be.

Capital punishment is one option. I am not completely for or against this, because part of me wants revenge on the killer(s), and part of me hears those who take the religious approach and say that we have to leave that up to God. Then there are those who point to mistaken convictions.

After CP, I think of the 'hell on earth' approach. Throw killers into a pit and toss in food once in a while, like an old dungeon. People will criticize that as inhumane.

I also think about the suggestion of a prison in the high arctic, too far from anywhere else for escape. No walls or fences needed, just air drop some food once in a while.

There has to be some way to deal with people like this. The way it (the penal system) is being run does not seem to work. Many liberal-minded people say "oh, prison is terrible, you wouldn't want to go there". Well, that's certainly true—I would be scared to death if I had to spend 10 minutes behind bars. Why then, is there no shortage of people willing to risk doing time in prison? No matter how much I think about it and listen to others I keep coming back to the thought that TV's and game rooms are not punishment. And for me, that's the nub of it. We have gone from punishment to "rehabilitation" in the name of compassion, while the crimes and body bags pile up. We are losing the fight, not winning it. I've had a bellyfull of 'rehabilitation'!

In university I took some psychology courses. I learned that on the most basic level, after the sex drive, one of the strongest natural instincts of all animals is that of pain avoidance. Murders, violent crimes, child molestation? Shackles and lashes every day for the duration of the sentence. Second offence? Twice as many lashes each day. This idea probably gives some people conniptions, but what we are doing now is NOT working. We spend billions on our justice and prison system now, and I refuse to believe that pouring billions more into it will make it work.

It is at this point that I am tempted to say, OK, social worker, you think my solutions are too harsh? Here's your option- either do it my way or become that killer's lifelong "keeper". In other words, put up or shut up.

Sorry if this 'rant' has rambled or scared anyone! I feel strongly that society should not have to watch quality of life decline, year by year, either directly from being a victim of crime or indirectly by well-founded fears of same.

I thank God that in spite of the risks and lack of support, men and women continue to volunteer to protect us from those who would do us harm.

[MarauderMike]

Outrage can't express my sentiment on this shooting. All over a traffic violation and a misdemeanor warrant, smart kid this guy was. According to all the weenies out there the death penalty is cruel punishment, did he offer that same courtesy to these brave officers. In the old west he would have been tried and hung by now, but in todays' courtrooms we're going to hear how he was the victim.
Prayers to the families involved.

[03SILVERSTREAK]

Two words,
Death penalty.
If that wasn't his guilty conscence pouring out , then I don't know what is.:censor:

[Dr Caleb]

I also think about the suggestion of a prison in the high arctic, too far from anywhere else for escape. No walls or fences needed, just air drop some food once in a while.


Dude! We must be on the same 'meds! That's been a though of mine for years! Why waste all that open tundra? Let's create our own 'Arctic Austraillia'!

And my thanks to all the LEO's who put their lives on the line every day!

[SergntMac]

I'm really disturbed by this news. I've made the trip to Detroit maybe 20 times in the last two years, and I feel very connnected. I'm just beginning to get around without maps, and everyone I've met has become a friend. Yet, news of this tragic event was not publicized here in Chicago, and my heart goes out to all of you LEOs affected by this event. You have lost two friends, and you all, along with them, are in my prayers today.

I'm also bothered by opinions of the chain of events here. "Routine traffic stop" and "calling for help" are media catch phrases, not accurate descriptions of frame of mind and physical movements. Disecting what may have taken place is for the experts to discover, and it's a guarantee they will not learn everything they could know about this event because the two best witnesses are dead.

None of us have any business commenting about what the officers should or should not have done. I've been a street cop in Chicago for 28 years now, a field trainer for 8 years, a state licensed heavy weapons instructor. I also co-wrote the CPDs use of force policy, and one of my many research projects is now a standard training topic at the F.L.E.T.C., Glynco GA. I've spent most of my adult life working with firearms, teaching safety, use of force, and officer survival. I've survived three face to face gunfights, and I've been the first responder to maybe a hundred more. Even with my history in this topic, I do not have any business suggesting anyone was right or wrong in their actions here. There is no one correct answer on how to react to a hostile attack, or, what to do when confronted by a fight for life.

This much we do know, the suspect got out of his car and approached the officers with a predetermined course of action decided upon. He was ready to do battle, and the officers are already too late in defending themselves. Everything is split second reaction to recognition of the first shot, and I'll tell you this too. By the time you hear that unique sound and it registers in your brain that you're under fire, you're already shot and dying. All you can do is react the hostile first shot. The offender already knows what path he will take, and what he will do next. Only overwhelming reaction to the first shot can change the possibility of a second shot, and this requires more split second thinking by the officers than y'all have imagined. Need an example?

Next time you see an opportunity to surprize someone, sneak up and shout "boo" and count to yourself 1, 2, 3...until the surprized person actually speaks words like "you scared me!" and their fright is visible in their behavior. You may get a slap or a punch, you can stop counting then too.

Usually, I see 3 seconds pass to full reaction from total surprize with anti-surprize movement (avoid) or fight (punch), both of whiich stimulate the anger/fight network. How much mayhem could you cause in 3 seconds? A lot. On the range, when I am in predetermined mode, I can fire my .357 service revolver until it's empty, and keep my group under a half dollar. I can do this with one full second of target face time. One. Anyone want to ask JFK what can happen in 6 seconds?

Perhaps if the officers had taken different steps before the first shot, it may not have been taken. Anything could have persuaded the offender to run, give up, or act in a casual friendly manner and hope the cops decide not to serach him or his car. Anything could have stopped the first shot. My mentor in this business taught me that "it's not the guns you find that are dangerous, it's the guns you miss."

One could reason this backwards away from the first shot and conclude what could have been different, but it didn't go that way. Everything after the first direction to pull over is dynamic, it's all action and reaction. The officers and the offender played the cards dealt, only good training and effective policy can stack the officer's deck. Anything could have caused the offender to change his mind, we don't know. We will never know, because there is no answer here. When you train a citizen to be a police officer, all you can do is give teach them the possibilities, and build their tool kit, and hope for the best. How they will react to surprize is always the unknow, until they do. Moreover, any "I would have done this" is unrealistic projection that history has shown has cost more officers their lives when they tried to carry out aspecific "sure thing" plan. There are no sure thing plans, and there are no magic bullets.

Use of force begins when you motion the car to the curb, and that force should continue to escalate as it is necessary to maintain superior control over the contact, until the car is free to go. Here in Chicago, I have seen incidents like this cause major overhauls in training and policy in knee-jerk reaction to grief and surprise, some so head up your azz, you would laugh yourself silly, like our unofficial rule that bars two officers from working together unless one of them has five years or more in seniority. My point is, second guessing is just that...Guessing.

This coming Sunday, the CPD Pipe Band will be traveling to Milwaukee, WI. to play a benefit concert for the Milwaukee S.O. DREAM fund, an organization formed to pay the bills of survivors when one of their cops gets killed. They have lost 3 in the line of duty. The Milwaukee cops we honor Sunday died chasing the offender in a brutal murder of one of our CPD cops, back in 2000. The chase was live and hot for several hours across state lines, and the Milwaukee chopper involved went down.

Both pilots were Vietnam vets, and highly trained and skilled in search, rescue and crimnal apprehension. The lead pilot was a 21 year vet of the Department, planning retirement. He learned to fly choppers in 'Nam. The co-pilot was a 5 year vet, he also learned choppers in 'Nam. He learned to duck them as a child caught in the war. So, there's your experience curve at work. The best training possible, years of seasoning and experience, some under the pressure of a fight for life. Yet, they ran out of gas and crashed. Their dedication to their job, the capture a cop killer, overwhelmed their attention to "routine" responsibilities. How human can you get.

We are human beings, animals with a brain, and a heart. We make life and death decisions everyday, and we make mistakes. The ONLY way we could be sure these two Detroit cops could have survived this confrontation, is to not stop the car in the first place. Let these officers rest in peace, and with the honor that they died trying to do their cop job. In America, it's the toughest and roughest cop job in the world. Blaming them gets us what...

[sailsmen]

Thanks for the insight.

When someone is killed it is human to think that could not have happened to me. This response is a natural physcological defense mechanism to avoid the realization of our own fragile existance.

In a split second people can be murdered or killed in an accident.

Jurors have this same response and it can create a huge obstacle when they are deliberating the fate of the accused as an example, "how could he have killed those 3 people in less than 3 minutes and be back home in 20 minutes, it just isn't possible".

Our prayers are with them.

[TripleTransAm]

Excellently said, Sarge. Unbelievably well said...

[BillyGman]

Thankyou for all your insight MAC. That's what I was looking for. I sincerely thought that there was a good possibility that there was something that I was missing, and that's why I welcomed anyone who was or is an officer of the Law to point anything out about this incident that I might have been missing. I just offered some of my thoughts as a starting point so that someone might care to shed some light on the issue for me. Remember, I've never been a Police officer, so even though I'm very familiar w/firearms, I'll be the first to admit that there are things about what LEO's go through that I'll probably never even be able to relate to.
I'm thankful that we have Law enforcement, and I hope that I didn't come across as being disrespectful in any way. if I did, then please realize that if anything, it was my inability to express myself accurately. Thankyou for your reply my friend.

[MI2QWK4U]

Here is some additional information, including the most accurate breakdown of what happened.

http://www.odmp.org/officer.php?oid=17239

http://www.odmp.org/officer.php?oid=17238

He fired 22 rounds, in a 40 cal that means reloading AT LEAST once, maybe twice. That is what you might rub shoulders with during the course of a day. If he would do this to two uniformed police officers, imagine what he would do to your mom, dad, brother, sister, or any other loved one.

In two days, we will be remembering another friend, hard to believe it's been three years.... http://www.odmp.org/officer.php?oid=15512

When you visit these sites, be sure to click on the yellow reflections button at the bottom of each page....

[MI2QWK4U]

This is for you Mac....http://www.odmp.org/agencydisp.php?agencyid=657

[BillyGman]

well now, that updated report was a whole lot more informative than the first one was. That first one just left a whole lot out. How tragic this is. I think that guys like that shouldn't get the death penalty. That's too easy. I like what Bill O'Reily says about how the prison systems should always include hard labor like pounding rock, and building roads in the heat. I think that lifers should have to do that like this low-life, and that also convists who aren't serving life should have to do hard labor also. That would be the only hope of real "rehabilitstion" rather than the farce that we now have that is refered to as rehabilitation.

It scares me to hear of things like this since my own twin brother is a police officer himself.

[DetGeno]

Thx Dave & Sarge & everyone's input. I am just very confused right now!!!

http://www.detnews.com/2004/metro/0402/17/metro-67282.htm

[MI2QWK4U]

[QUOTE=DetGeno]Thx Dave & Sarge & everyone's input. I am just very confused right now!!!

What are you confused about Gene? Give me a call if I can help with something....

[DetGeno]

I guess frustrated in a better word for it. What does he mean by "It was a mistake!" when ask why by the camera, and it really sucks that as tax payer in Michigan all that he will get is life in prison, to be provided food, clothing, shelter for the rest of his sorry azz life!

[BillyGman]

Incase anyone's interested, the reason for my statement concerning the possibility of people like that serving life w/hard labor in prison is because if that was really the case w/all of the criminals like this guy is, then word would get around real quick, and that would serve as a deterent to many of these guys like him.
You don't believe that? Well I used to do some voluntary work in a jail, and I actually had an inmate say to me once, "I want to do what's right, but I know that when I get out of here (meaning jail) nobody will hire me. I can't get any decent job no matter what I do because of my prison record...I'm 34 yrs old, and I've been in and out of correctional facilities and jails MOST of my life. So I don't know how to do anything else than to deal drugs and live in jail". Now before you accuse me of siding w/this low-life who shot these two police officers, let me point out to you that in no way am I one of those bleeding heart liberals who side w/the criminals. God forbid!!!!!

But what I'm saying is that this guy who was talking to me who was ready to come out of jail wasn't an exception to the rule. Have you ever gone in the jails to do some volunteer work? If you do, you'll find it rather eye opening, and it isn't a pretty picture. They all know eachother in there. It's like one big happy family!! Almost all of them are in and out of there year after year. You know why? Because it's an easy three meals a day for them! That's why. They have food, shelter,and clothing,and they don't have to lift a finger to do anything until they get bored, and then want to play sports, or pump iron to get bigger and stronger on our tax dollars so when they get out, they can be better equipped to get the better of someone in an assault, go make some more babies, and then when they had their fill of conning people, they just commit a crime and get caught so they can go back to their mother jail who will take good care of them, and enable them to avoid any child support payments.

It's a pathetic picture, but there's absolutely no deterent for them to continue this cycle!!! My point is.......if they knew that they had to do some HARD labor(and I'm simply talking about real hard work, NOT torture) then they would choose to be more motivated to stay out of jail, and/or prison, and make an honest effort to live a normal productive life. But the way the system is now, makes it easier for them to remain in jail, than it is to get out, and earn a living. So much for "rehabilitation"......

Sorry for my rant....I just didn't want to be misunderstood because of my prior statements. I'm not neccessarily against the dealth penalty. But I am against convicts doing easy time instead of hard labor.

So you ask "well what does allof this have to do w/two police officers getting shot?" I'l tell you what. All of the dirtballs like the one who shot those two police officers weren't born that way. They got that way from being in jail w/nothing to do but hang out w/the lowest of low, and didn't have to do anything but sit around and brag about how they were gonna get over on people when they get out. Not exactly an ideal enviroment for rehabilitation is it? they needed to be doing some hard work like paving streets that never get paved because the state in question has an alleged budget deficit. I'm sure there are other things for the state that they can be doing to serve us the tax payers who pay for their way in there in the first place. But instead you have inmates who serve easy jail time again and again year after year for little stuff, who care nothing about getting caught for a crime that will put them right back behind bars. They don't care because they know that in jail and even prison, they will not only be well taken care of(food, water, and shelter) but they will not have to work hard.
So after spending half of their lives in places that are filled w/nothing but the criminal type, they get to a point where their minds are filled w/nothing but the sport of crime from listening to their fellow inmates talk about it. And so that's what crime becomes to them. A sport. They know nothing else, because there was never anything to deter them from going back behind bars since they know that their time in there is a piece of cake, and that's where all their buddies are anyway. The one thing that they can't have in there is women, and after being out awhile having them, they have to escape the child support anyway, so when that comes to a head, they're glad to go back in the slammer to avoid having to pay that. back to mother jail to take care of them.

So no hard labor= lifetime inmates/lifetime criminals, and these are the guys that our police officers have to face once they get out of jail. these individuals care nothing about the law or anyone around them, because that's a thing of respect. And what do they learn about respect in jail? they don't even have to work to earn their food and shelter in there like you and I do out here.

[DetGeno]

Now, that is very well said!!!! God bless you BillyG!!! We all work our azzez off to acomplish the basic needs in our lifes, the jackazzez don't to nothing right and gets them all from us!

[BillyGman]

Thanks DG, I'm glad that somebody can relate to where I'm coming from on this subject........

[SergntMac]

Thanks DG, I'm glad that somebody can relate to where I'm coming from on this subject.
I hear ya Billy, well said. I happen to agree with you too.

Death sentences do not sit well with me. Mankind as a society, is not wise enough pare out the worthless and remove them from the fold. Moreover, it's not cost effective, and not the best solution. Only deterents work, and putting the death sentence on someone, is not a deterent. Until their time comes, which never seems to happen in a timely fashion, it's life in a University, sports included. Rehab? Naw...3 strikes, your out. Repeat offender and Class X get treated the same as conviction for murder.

Spending the rest of your worthless existence forever locked away in a cell by yourself, no contact with the outside world, at all. No TV, no newspaper, no conversation with anyone but yourself. Door welded shut, food through the slot once a day. A hose down once a week to clean the s*it off your cell floor. One change of clothing once a month. Works for me...

You won't be able to hurt anyone anymore, ever. When you come to beg for it, you'll be provided with the necessary tools to put an end to your worthless life. Try this for one year, see if it doesn't take a bite out of crime.

[Dr Caleb]

Try this for one year, see if it doesn't take a bite out of crime.

Well put Sarge.

You might be in favour of the idea MMM and I were discussing above. Some may not underconstumble, so I'll elaborate.

Look at a map of Canada. If you look way north, you'll see the Yukon Territory, Northwest Territories and Nunavut. More than 1/2 Canada's land mass and about 80% the land area of the United States. The total population here is about 150,000 people.

It's a pretty desolate place. Many islands, covered in thin scrub for the short 3 month summer/fall. The water around these islands is frozen for most of the year, and in the furthest north, it's permanant ice.

The idea MMM and I were alluding to is to take one of these desolate islands and turn it into a penal colony, a Russian style Gulag. Put all the lifers there, do a food and supplies drop once or twice a year.

No one will miss the island, because no one uses them much anyway, except the Rangers (Rangers are like National Guard, they're are guys with a snowmobile, a parka and a rifle and a box of ammo who patrol the northern borders - tough SOB's!). Cost isn't a problem, and since it's mostly ice and 6000km from anywhere, they're not going anywhere.

The bad element in society is gone, at little cost to the taxpayer, and it is a major deterrent factor. Problem solved.

[RCSignals]

Spending the rest of your worthless existence forever locked away in a cell by yourself, no contact with the outside world, at all. No TV, no newspaper, no conversation with anyone but yourself. Door welded shut, food through the slot once a day. A hose down once a week to clean the s*it off your cell floor. One change of clothing once a month. Works for me...

You won't be able to hurt anyone anymore, ever. When you come to beg for it, you'll be provided with the necessary tools to put an end to your worthless life. Try this for one year, see if it doesn't take a bite out of crime.

It's a good idea, as is Dr Caleb and MMM's. Problem as I see it, the same people who interfere with the carrying out of the death sentences would never allow such treatment.

Otherwise the death penalty would be a deterrent, and would work.
Sometimes, we just need to do things, and not worry about what a few people think. Let them protest, but get on with it.

[RCSignals]

No one will miss the island, because no one uses them much anyway, except the Rangers (Rangers are like National Guard, they're are guys with a snowmobile, a parka and a rifle and a box of ammo who patrol the northern borders - tough SOB's!). Cost isn't a problem, and since it's mostly ice and 6000km from anywhere, they're not going anywhere.



Not even the Rangers would mind.

Not to argue here, but if you are referring to the US National Guard, the Rangers are nothing like them. Rangers are spotters and observers, also act as guides for CF operating in the North.
They are given ammunition annually, that they do not have to account for.
Mostly, they go hunting.
(they used to be given some prime, "unissued" 303s, which they also did not have to account for)

Have you been to NRHQ in Yellowknife?

[Dr Caleb]

Have you been to NRHQ in Yellowknife?

No. Been to Yellowknife, never went by NRHQ. Neat city. Especially now with all the diamond mines and activity there.

Perhaps the Guard/Rangers anaolgy was off. Best I could think of. They do perform duties required of us by international law though. Something we can't afford to do with regular forces.

But you gotta be one ornery SOB to do what they do :)

[Dr Caleb]

Problem as I see it, the same people who interfere with the carrying out of the death sentences would never allow such treatment.


Until it's a member of their family one of <a href='http://www.canada.com/edmonton/story.asp?id=C3DDB7C3-E210-4436-A472-E895C59E92B9'> these</a> animals attacks. They they'd be all for it.

[RCSignals]

But you gotta be one ornery SOB to do what they do :)

Their big advantage is they are native to the land. They can navigate the North, that's for sure.

[RCSignals]

Until it's a member of their family one of <a href='http://www.canada.com/edmonton/story.asp?id=C3DDB7C3-E210-4436-A472-E895C59E92B9'> these</a> animals attacks. They they'd be all for it.


yes. People are already making excuses for this guy though.


Relatives said the man had a troubled childhood and hadn't lived with his mother since he was five. His aunt, who asked not to be named, said he had a rough life and battled methamphetamine addiction as a teen.

It's not a valid excuse for what he's done, but there it is.

[jgc61sr2002]

My prayers go out to the families, friends and co workers of these brave officers who died in the line of duty. I was a NYC Police Lieutenant with 35 years of service and this scene is all to familiar. I patrolled the streets of NYC all 35 years and was very lucky . My three sons are on active duty with the NYC Police Dept. and I pray for the safety daily.

[Bigdogjim]

My heart goes out to the family of these 2 young officers...I can't tell you how much I respect those of you in the field of protecting the rest of us.

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[tmac1337]

I have been training new officers for over 3 years in the ghettos of west ft. lauderdale. Although I have learned to never armchair quarterback I was dismayed to read in the news report that both officers were sitting in the vehicle. I can only say that my organization consistently trains on immediately getting out of the car and doing checks via radio outside for safety. You can see/move while shoot. It is very hard to draw a weapon seated in a car.


I dont know what to say, do you guys? Read the link. I for one have seen too many stories like this. In 14 years I have seen several Detroit officers, Troopers, local officers killed in the line of duty. I can speak to this on a personal level, since one of my coworkers was shot and killed 3 years ago this week. These folks work hard, and do the best they can. I get a little steamed when wanna be's and morons cheapen the job that these two young officers died upholding. Thanks for enduring my rambling!

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/2850517/detail.html

[MapleLeafMerc]

Here is some additional information, including the most accurate breakdown of what happened.


Thanks for those links! I was glad to see a place where these men and women are all remembered. It's hard to explain, but seeing the faces of the fallen officers somehow magnified my feelings. Almost as though I now knew them just by seeing them.

I believe they're all in a better place now.

[MapleLeafMerc]

Thanks DG, I'm glad that somebody can relate to where I'm coming from on this subject........

I relate, Billy :up:

Years ago my Dad said that the best punishment for the worst offenders was to "have them make little rocks out of big rocks for the rest of their lives." I still like it because if the state is proven wrong later there is still a chance to make amends.

In my opinion you're dead right about crime and punishment. No fear about consequences, because we are wallowing in what historians may yet come to call the PC age. When political correctness dictated than we must bleed society dry in order to save every recalcitrant offender.

[SergntMac]

Dave...Thank you, my friend, for all your help in trying to get me there. You opened your home to me, and I deeply respect your "welcome" gesture.

I apologize for not being allowed to leave my jurisdiction for this memorial, but I have my priority directions now.

I owe you one, bud, thanks.

[sailsmen]

I like what hte Sherriff in Arizona did, but them in tent camps and feeds them baloney sandwhiches. :up:

The recidivism rate dropped dramatically when he implemented the austere prison program.

[BillyGman]

MAC, and MapleLeaf, thanks for your acknowledgements. Atleast many of us seem to be pretty much on the same page about this issue. I like what MapleLeaf stated about consequences(or lack thereof). Yes, that's what I was getting at too. There has to be consequences for criminals. And the problem is that there isn't. Not really.