Current Gas Prices

[1 Bad Merc]

Just got done filling up my truck again and I swear I am so frickin tired of the $4.18 a gallon for just regular gas-this is BS :censor: stuff. I cant afford to keep putting in a $100 bucks a fillup a week to keep this thing going let alone the higher food prices, etc.

Oil prices are down but due to drought, refinery fires, oil pipeline leaks, crap in the gas and a host of 20 other things the prices always seem to keep rising!

If the government/EPA wont allow real capitalism to work then they have a duty to regulate the market with price controls! Yes I said it.......:flamer:

These Oil corporations are turning record profits every quarter (so I am not going to cry for them) but they continue to hold us hostage by not building new refineries (here or overseas) and the speculators continue to mess around with the market and create havoc! So you either control the speculators (make them have to prove they can take 80% supply they purchased) or the oil companies.

Something has to give before we all go broke! Sorry for the rant but I am getting tired of this BS!

[DOOM]

$4.18 for regular! :eek:

[1 Bad Merc]

$4.18 for regular! :eek:

Yes -I was scared to look at what Premium would cost!!!!!

[Bluerauder]

$4.18 for regular! :eek:

$4.09 for Sunoco 93 posted today. Wonder how high it will go before we head out to Marauderville X (MV10)...... not that it will matter.

[SC Cheesehead]

$3.29 for Regular and $3.49 for Premium here in Greenville.

Just sayin'....

[DOOM]

$4.09 for Sunoco 93 posted today. Wonder how high it will go before we head out to Marauderville X (MV10)...... not that it will matter.

Still $3.90 in my neck of the woods.

[LANDY]

$4.07 here in central FL.

[TUXrauder]

$3.49 in mid-missouri.... just saying...

[Shaijack]

Reg 3.43 Prem 3.8in New Orleans and this is where we produce gas...Ok Gasoline.

[guspech750]

I'm proud to pay $4.00+ a gallon for regular. I feel I'm doing my part to help the demand for more gas so prices can go higher.


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[babbage]

In contrast in Europe gas right now is about $8 per gallon!

It still beats walking even at $10 per gallon.

This is the high point, prices will drop after labor day. About 3 weeks from now.

[DOOM]

I'm proud to pay $4.00+ a gallon for regular. I feel I'm doing my part to help the demand for more gas so prices can go higher.


Sent from my iPhone
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LMAO!!! :rofl:

You moron! :laugh:

[yjmud]

F!@# Chicagoland gas prices

[Chayton]

I live very close to the refinery fire that just happened a few weeks ago, the chevron refinery in Richmond California. Its funny, While the fire was STILL going gas prices were shooting sky high. One chevron station here wants $4.30!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wonder if the fire is affecting everyone else in different states?

[PonyUP]

Well to be fair, we can talk about record profits for oil companies, but it's all propaganda. Oil companies are only making about 6% profit, yes it's billions, but that's because of the volume. Most economist will tell you a 20% GOP is what makes a successful company.

That having been said, it's not so much the quantity of oil, what really drives oil prices through the roof is the lack of refineries and their ability to process it.

But like Joe said, I'll keep paying it, I have two V8's and I'm proud of it. Throw in the premium and eat me some Hemi's for lunch


The Ice Bucket Approves of this message

[jerrym3]

Jersey has relatively low gas prices.

But, I'll trade my low gas prices for the property taxes that most of you folks pay.

In my county, Bergen, just about anybody with a decent middle class house pays 10K per year.

And, we're not talking big chunks of property. 100'X100' plot here is average.

[Merrill]

In Washington state we are 3.90 for regular. My 460 box van
takes 100.00 "every other day", and it is killing me. All of my
expenses are up and my pay is down. Just looking for that
Hope and Change.

[Rockettman]

In Washington state we are 3.90 for regular. My 460 box van
takes 100.00 "every other day", and it is killing me. All of my
expenses are up and my pay is down. Just looking for that
Hope and Change.

You're not alone ! :alone:

[1 Bad Merc]

Just read this morning that Gas is averaging $7.50 a gallon in Europe and that this $4 plus a gallon we are paying in the US is highly unusual for the month of September. I wonder were these financial news services pick up these Einsteins...as I could of told them that.

Other data points I found interesting is that just four years ago at this time in 2008 we were paying record highs for gasoline and it was averaging $2.50 per gallon in the US with demand being 8% higher back then. We have cut back demand for gas by 8% from 4 years ago and the supply (gasoline stocks) has been shrinking right along with it. In other words the Oil companies have reduced their gasoline production/output (8%) to fit demand and to keep the stocks of gasoline artificially low while maintaining extraodinary higher prices. This is why we see such a jump/spike in gas prices when something goes wrong (fire, pipeline burst, crap in the gas, etc) as the companies have all but eliminated their stockpiles of gasoline!

What I would like to know is why does the government allow the oil companies to artificially keep the price of gasoline high by manipulating/reducing the supply? This to me is a fundamental question we all should be asking our elected officials. Why does the government continue to limit competition but at the same time give subsidies to this industry when it routinely puts direct pressure on the American people?

At over $4 a gallon these days the economists are indicating these companies are severely hurting any kind of economic recovery we might be having. They are also indicating the residual effects (higher food prices, etc.) will increase 10 fold the time it takes to bankrupt the America people.

[sailsmen]

Gov't owns ~85% of the World's Oil supply. The profit margin on Gasoline is 4%-5%, about half of the tax that Gov't charges at the pump. That's right Gov't tax at the pump is double the profit.
Oil is traded exclusively in dollars. Much of the fluctuation in Oil is changes in the value of the dollar.
The Gov't does not give "subsidies" to the oil industry. The oil industry is one of the highest sources of tax to the Treasury. If you falsely believe that the Oil Indsutry is given a "subsidy" then anything less than 100% taxation is also a "subsidy", http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statements/2012/may/04/bill-johnson/bill-johnson-says-subsidies-oil-companies-barack-o/

The question that needs to be asked is why does our Gov't refuse to sell us our OIL?
From Bureau of Land Management

Oil Shale and Tar Sands
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Salazar Reforms Oil Shale Program--Department of Interior News Release, October 20, 2009

Federal Register Notice
New Oil Shale RD&D Lease Form
Fact Sheet on Oil Shale Program
Secretary Salazar's Letter to the Interior Inspector General
The United States holds the world’s largest known concentration of oil shale. Nearly five times the proven oil reserves of Saudi Arabia underlies a surface area of 16,000 square miles. The enormous potential of this domestic resource is a key to the Nation’s energy security and economic strength, and to the quality of life Americans enjoy today and hope to ensure for future generations.

More than 70 percent of American oil shale — including the thickest and richest deposits — lies on federal land, primarily in Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming. These federal lands contain an estimated 1.23 trillion barrels of oil — more than 50 times the nation's proven conventional oil reserves.

More than 50 tar sands deposits are found in eastern Utah, containing an estimated 12 to 19 billion barrels of oil. As oil prices rise, there is new interest in developing both of these domestic resources.

The BLM is working to ensure that development of federal oil shale and tar sands resources will be economically sustainable and environmentally responsible.
http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/energy/oilshale_2.html

Using Secretary Salazar's figure of 1.23 Trillion Barrels of just Shale Oil at $70 per barrell and a low 14% Federal Royalty rate equals $12+ Trillion in Royalty payments to the Federal Gov't. In addition you have the lease sales plus the tax at the pump.In addition there is also Natural Gas and Oil.

[Kodimar]

Also it is important to know that it's very difficult to build a new refinery since the environmentalists will instantly sue to have it stopped. Very few refineries have been built since the 70's and those that have been built have been pretty small.

http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=29&t=6

[sailsmen]

1 Bad Merc - "What I would like to know is why does the government allow the oil companies to artificially keep the price of gasoline high by manipulating/reducing the supply? "

Per the WSJ - "Mr. Chu, Energy Secretary, has called for gradually ramping up gasoline taxes over 15 years to coax consumers into buying more-efficient cars and living in neighborhoods closer to work.

"Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe," Mr. Chu, who directs the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory in California, said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal in September."

Perhaps Gov't should NATIONALIZE the Agriculture, Energy, Utility and Housing Industries to control prices. It has worked real well in Cuba, China, the former USSR and North Korea.;)

Oil prices have risen 8% since August 1st.

[guspech750]

[QUOTE=1 Bad Merc;1210786]What I would like to know is why does the government allow the oil companies to artificially keep the price of gasoline high by manipulating/reducing the supply? This to me is a fundamental question we all should be asking our elected officials. Why does the government continue to limit competition but at the same time give subsidies to this industry when it routinely puts direct pressure on the American people?
QUOTE]

Simple, the ass holes who are in DC work for, worked for, or companies that do lots of business with the oil companies or they are on the boards of these companies.

The bluberment will never step up to put the cabash on their exploitation of us. Death to them all!!

[slickster]

Hi 93 prices mean less miles on the mm. Good thing my corolla gets 36mpg:P

[1 Bad Merc]

The issue I have been told is not about the supply of OIL (we supposedly have almost a 4 month supply sitting in ships anchored off our coasts-no storage available to offload as most storage tanks are filled) but the limited refinery capacity here in the US.

One of the main issues I have heard regurgitated consistently is the lack of refinery capacity to produce gasoline. If our demand is down 8% then why is the gasoline stocks shrinking and not growing? Why do we not have excess gasoline stocks? That is the question that I dont understand as everyone keeps saying these refineries are working at capacity. 8% is a heck of alot of gasoline to not be producing on a yearly basis. We should have seen our prices fall dramatically according to basic supply/demand principals.

The only thing I can come up with is their is some type of manual manipulation going on with the prices/gas stocks which looks to me like a text book case of price fixing.

Why the government is not looking into this I have no idea. Gas is a basic commodity that really has no replacement in the US -just like electricity. Everyone needs it and competition is limited with the companies already in place. So why we dont regulate the industry the same way is beyond me.

Everyone keeps saying the Oil companies only make a low 4% profit per gallon but to me this is a little disingenious. They have a captive (monopoly) market and remember that 4% of hundreds of millions of gallons is sure a heck lot more then 4% of a couple of million in sales! So they make their money on the enormous volume that is sold and not in the percentages per gallon. Add to this the lack of market competition and you now have companies with no incentives to improve on the way things are done. This leads to some very happy Oil companies that keep churning out record quarterly profits at our expense.

And I do believe these Oil companies do get subsidized by the US Government. Maybe not monetarily but by the EPA laws that restrict/severly limit the contruction of new refineries in the US. Alot of the older refineries do not meet current EPA pollution standards and are allowed to continue to operate through grandfather clauses. This eliminates new companies from coming into the marketplace as they cannot hope to be competitive when they have to abide by the costly current pollution restrictions that our current companies dont have to comply with.

[88LTDCV351]

Wasn't the price of gasoline and oil so much more stable and acceptable before they put it on the commodities and futures market on Wall Street before the 1980s? Or am I just remembering wrong?

[1 Bad Merc]

"Perhaps Gov't should NATIONALIZE the Agriculture, Energy, Utility and Housing Industries to control prices. It has worked real well in Cuba, China, the former USSR and North Korea".;)

I agree with your premise but I did not say Nationalize this industry but regulate it- like we currently do with Electricity :).

I mean electricity is basically the same as gas if you look at it. Both are fixed commodities that we cannot live with out, both have large infrastructure costs that prohibit direct competition and alot of the older plants are gross polluters that get grandfathered in. Both industries have captive markets (US -:) ) and there are really no incentives for either industry to really change because basic market competition is almost non-existent.

[stevengerard]

And, we're not talking big chunks of property. 100'X100' plot here is average.

that's considered a "decent" size lot in the Chicago area and that's what most of our taxes are at. And gas is $4.19, ours is always one of the most expensive gallons of gas in the US and we have refineries everywhere, oh yeah and E85 made out of corn is never lower than 3.69 - what a joke 30% less mpg and we either pay as much or within 10% of the price of gasoline for that stuff and its made right here.

[stevengerard]

As somone mentioned its not the shortage of oil its the shortage of gasoline. There were many reports early this year that said it isn't the lack of refineries it is that this is the first time since Hoover that the US has exported more gasoline than we used. That was the last quarter of 2011. Not sure what's going on now but other countries (China) are willing to pay us for our gasoline - we are shipping it instead of keeping it.

[Ozark Marauder]

Let's see, those greedy oil companies make .08 cents per gallon. State to state, additional gasoline taxes and refining requirements as well as distance from the closest refinery are the largest factors. Many average Americans hold stock in the oil companies, either directly or indirectly through their 410k or mutual funds.

Smelling blood in the political waters in an election year makes every issue a campaign issue perfect for exploitation and current consumer complaints over prices at the pumps is no exception. C'mon, lets launch yet another “independent” (partisan) investigation into high gasoline prices during an election year when winning congressional, senate, and presidential seats in Washington is so important. But will attacking the group making the least on a gallon of gas, the group responsible for ongoing exploration and production of gasoline, solve the problem? Should some new “windfall-profit” tax aimed at penalizing American companies for turning a profit be imposed? No. This attitude is the cause of the problem to the degree you can prove any real problem exists at all.

Over the last 20 years, gasoline per gallon has increased roughly 60%, which equals an annual average increase of only 3%, which is less than the average rate of inflation. During the same 20 year period however, the salary of every member of Congress has increased 250% or 12.5% per year. More than four times the average rate of inflation.

Who's zooming whom? Who looks greedy now?

Should we penalize oil companies for making .08 cents per gallon gross profit, then how much should we penalize our federal government for making 18.4 cents per gallon?

Get ready. The next political controversy to spark a brawl in an ever more deeply divided Capitol Hill.

Just add the 18.4 cent federal tax and look here for your state tax.

http://www.api.org/statistics/fueltaxes/upload/gasoline-diesel-summary.pdf

JMO......

OZ

[1 Bad Merc]

Let's see, those greedy oil companies make .08 cents per gallon. State to state, additional gasoline taxes and refining requirements as well as distance from the closest refinery are the largest factors. Many average Americans hold stock in the oil companies, either directly or indirectly through their 410k or mutual funds.

Smelling blood in the political waters in an election year makes every issue a campaign issue perfect for exploitation and current consumer complaints over prices at the pumps is no exception. C'mon, lets launch yet another “independent” (partisan) investigation into high gasoline prices during an election year when winning congressional, senate, and presidential seats in Washington is so important. But will attacking the group making the least on a gallon of gas, the group responsible for ongoing exploration and production of gasoline, solve the problem? Should some new “windfall-profit” tax aimed at penalizing American companies for turning a profit be imposed? No. This attitude is the cause of the problem to the degree you can prove any real problem exists at all.

Over the last 20 years, gasoline per gallon has increased roughly 60%, which equals an annual average increase of only 3%, which is less than the average rate of inflation. During the same 20 year period however, the salary of every member of Congress has increased 250% or 12.5% per year. More than four times the average rate of inflation.

Who's zooming whom? Who looks greedy now?

Should we penalize oil companies for making .08 cents per gallon gross profit, then how much should we penalize our federal government for making 18.4 cents per gallon?

Get ready. The next political controversy to spark a brawl in an ever more deeply divided Capitol Hill.

Just add the 18.4 cent federal tax and look here for your state tax.

http://www.api.org/statistics/fueltaxes/upload/gasoline-diesel-summary.pdf

JMO......

OZ

I agree with your remarks that the government has their hands all over the price increases. These higher gas prices for them is a large hidden TAX INCREASE on everyone in America!

For some reason alot of Americans dont understand that the goverment has a fixed percentage tax on a gallon of gasoline. The higher the price per gallon the more money the government gets!

With the current deficits we are running and the huge debts that we owe does anyone really think the government wants to lower the price of gas?

Same thing with the States-no one in government is really complaining about the prices because they are using this money (which is only supposed to be used to build roads and upgrade our infrastructure :rolleyes: ) to try and balance all the increases in their budgets!

[BODYMAN]

Perhaps Gov't should NATIONALIZE the Agriculture, Energy, Utility and Housing Industries. That is part of a bigger sceme.GOVT controls everything rather you think it or not & always play a role in which direction things go to achieve whateever goal there trying to.

[babbage]

that's considered a "decent" size lot in the Chicago area and that's what most of our taxes are at. And gas is $4.19, ours is always one of the most expensive gallons of gas in the US and we have refineries everywhere, oh yeah and E85 made out of corn is never lower than 3.69 - what a joke 30% less mpg and we either pay as much or within 10% of the price of gasoline for that stuff and its made right here.

Chicago puts a huge tax on the gas to pay for entitlement freeloaders.

Remove the dems/liberals and you might be able to lower the tax on the gas.

[1 Bad Merc]

Chicago puts a huge tax on the gas to pay for entitlement freeloaders.

Remove the dems/liberals and you might be able to lower the tax on the gas.

Honestly-I believe it's both parties that are doing this crap. These career politicians are bought and paid for already (Dems/Repubs) by corporations. Dont think for a moment all the bs rhetoric you hear from them is even real.....anyone who bucks the system (Ross Perot) and threatens these politician's paydays get's destroyed by the political machines.

These guys are playing every day Americans for suckers and smiling all the way to the bank!

[jerrym3]

that's considered a "decent" size lot in the Chicago area and that's what most of our taxes are at. And gas is $4.19, ours is always one of the most expensive gallons of gas in the US and we have refineries everywhere, oh yeah and E85 made out of corn is never lower than 3.69 - what a joke 30% less mpg and we either pay as much or within 10% of the price of gasoline for that stuff and its made right here.

I'm not trying to compare a city like Chicago with a suburb of NJ. Two different animals.

In many other towns in Bergen County, lot sizes are 65"X100", and taxes can still hit 10K per year. (My town is fairly "reasonable" because of the number of large shopping malls.)

But, there's also upper end Bergen County towns where lots are much bigger and taxes are MUCH higher.

On the flip side, if you're selling, housing prices are also higher.

Many Jersey seniors have to relocate when they retire because they can't hack the cost of living.

But, gas is cheaper, and we don't have to get out of the car in the rain or snow. (No self service allowed.)

[sailsmen]

"Perhaps Gov't should NATIONALIZE the Agriculture, Energy, Utility and Housing Industries to control prices. It has worked real well in Cuba, China, the former USSR and North Korea".;)

I agree with your premise but I did not say Nationalize this industry but regulate it- like we currently do with Electricity :).

I mean electricity is basically the same as gas if you look at it. Both are fixed commodities that we cannot live with out, both have large infrastructure costs that prohibit direct competition and alot of the older plants are gross polluters that get grandfathered in. Both industries have captive markets (US -:) ) and there are really no incentives for either industry to really change because basic market competition is almost non-existent.

You are spewing exactly what is in the "Red Book".

In every case "regulation" i.e. pirce fixing leads to a higher price.

Obama has stated his policy is to drive up fossil fuel costs to make GREEN ENERGY viable. Obama's plan is to regulate every thing to control who gets what.

[1 Bad Merc]

You are spewing exactly what is in the "Red Book".

In every case "regulation" i.e. pirce fixing leads to a higher price.

Obama has stated his policy is to drive up fossil fuel costs to make GREEN ENERGY viable. Obama's plan is to regulate every thing to control who gets what.

I understand your post but with the way we are going what do we due to fix this crap?

Our government is in collusion with the Oil companies (both repubs/dems), the speculators are out of control on wall street and simple supply/demand models are not allowed to work nor is capitalist principles allowed to work here either. So in your estimation how the heck do we fix it?

I guess I want someone to show me a reasonable solution that can be applied to fix the problem and leave the political bs out of it.

I am asking to live on the moon too.....

[wannaMM]

i'M GOING TO PRACTICE AN AGE OLD SOLUTION...WALK INTO MY VOTING BOOTH WITH A LIST OF ALL INCUMBENTS...TO BE SURE I DON'T VOTE FOR THEM...AFTER ALL, I'M AT THAT CRS STAGE 1, DUE TO THE FACT THAT I WORK FOR A LIVING....

[sailsmen]

I understand your post but with the way we are going what do we due to fix this crap?

Our government is in collusion with the Oil companies (both repubs/dems), the speculators are out of control on wall street and simple supply/demand models are not allowed to work nor is capitalist principles allowed to work here either. So in your estimation how the heck do we fix it?

I guess I want someone to show me a reasonable solution that can be applied to fix the problem and leave the political bs out of it.

I am asking to live on the moon too.....

We will not bust up OPEC for fear Oil will no longer be traded exclusively in dollars and become worth substantailly less.

As respects your suggestion to regulate like electricity the Electric Utility Industry has a 6.9% profit margin vs gasoline of 4%-5%.

Cut out all the profit and you reduce the price by 4%-5%.

To answer your question, in the long run open up our vast Domestic oil to production. In the short run the EPA can let up on some of the multi blends they require the refineries switch over to at various times of the year.

This will never happen under Obama.

[1 Bad Merc]

i'M GOING TO PRACTICE AN AGE OLD SOLUTION...WALK INTO MY VOTING BOOTH WITH A LIST OF ALL INCUMBENTS...TO BE SURE I DON'T VOTE FOR THEM...AFTER ALL, I'M AT THAT CRS STAGE 1, DUE TO THE FACT THAT I WORK FOR A LIVING....

Ha Ha Ha!!!!! I like your solution :banana2:

I am going to do the same thing-vote against every Incumbent- with the expectation that their victory margins will be lower and actually make them scratch their heads in wonderment.

I dont expect most incumbents to lose because they have created their own patronage army of supporters by using our tax money to make jobs for people. Their is a reason why the government has been growing at a much faster pace then the private sector :censor:

Wow- I just started another topic! Dang you guys are good :beer:

[jerrym3]

[Obama's plan is to regulate every thing to control who gets what.[/QUOTE]

Unless you know something that I don't, even if he does get re-elected, he only has four years before he's in the history books.

So, as President of the United States, not King or Supreme Ruler of the United States, what purpose does this supposed "regulate and control everything" goal serve?

Wouldn't the next President come in, Republican or Democrat, and just undo everything?

[guspech750]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

One with common sense would say yes. But when have you ever seen a government official common sense?

They are all socialist worthless sacks of dog ****.


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[Bigdogjim]

Here in Lawrence Twp, NJ 93 is @ 3.75 to 3.84 per gallon, and they pump it for you :)

In South Haven Mi. 93 is @ 4.01 to 4.19 per gallon.

I use www.gasbuddy.com (http://www.gasbuddy.com)

On the bottome left of the home page you can check a map of gas prices all over the US plus you can see what the taxes are per gallon Fed & local.

[jerrym3]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

One with common sense would say yes. But when have you ever seen a government official common sense?

They are all socialist worthless sacks of dog ****.


Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

For the most part, I can't disagree with you. The number one goal of any politician is to either get re-elected, or, in the case of term limits, ensure that your party stays in power.

But, there comes a time when even politicians have to start thinking about their legacy, and how they will be judged and written about in the history books.

I certainly wouldn't want to be a member, or leader, of a government that caused the United States of America to implode, and, considering the egos these men and women have, I have to think that neither would they.

[hotford]

Im in Grove city and its 3.69 for regular and 3.89 for 93, alot better than 1.28 a litre in the great north and where 94 is 1.47 a litre for the converstion just multiple it by 3.8 and thats what it is a gallon.
regular would be 4.86 a gallon and super would be,5.58 a gallon...........

[sailsmen]

[Obama's plan is to regulate every thing to control who gets what.

Unless you know something that I don't, even if he does get re-elected, he only has four years before he's in the history books.

So, as President of the United States, not King or Supreme Ruler of the United States, what purpose does this supposed "regulate and control everything" goal serve?

Wouldn't the next President come in, Republican or Democrat, and just undo everything?[/QUOTE]

SAILSMEN - Social Justice via income redistribution until complete financial collapse resulting in everyone starting at zero. Study Obama's mentor's Wright, Bell, Ayers, Davis, etc.
Senator Obama radio Interview "If you look at the victories and failures of the civil rights movement and its litigation strategy in the court, I think where it succeeded was to invest formal rights in previously dispossessed people, so that now I would have the right to vote. I would now be able to sit at the lunch counter and order and as long as I could pay for it I’d be OK .

But, the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and of more basic issues such as political and economic justice in society. To that extent, as radical as I think people try to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn't that radical. It didn't break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the Founding Fathers in the Constitution, at least as it's been interpreted, and the Warren Court interpreted in the same way, that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. Says what the states can't do to you. Says what the federal government can't do to you, but doesn't say what the federal government or state government must do on your behalf.

And that hasn't shifted and one of the, I think, tragedies of the civil rights movement was because the civil rights movement became so court-focused I think there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalition of powers through which you bring about redistributive change. In some ways we still suffer from that."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkpdNtTgQNM

It is very easy for a President to expand the power of Gov't. Only the Congress has the power to stop a President via impeachment.
It is very difficult to reduce the power and size of Gov't.
The easiest way to reduce the power and size of Gov't is to reduce the spending of Gov't, currently in total ~42% of GDP.
The 1948-2008 Fed spending averaged 19.9% of GDP. Under Obama 25%, 23%, etc.
Whenever Fed spending has exceeded 19.9% for 2 or more years unemployment has gone up by a min of 50% and stayed there regardless of wether GDP grew or shrank until Fed spending dropped back to 19.9% or less. Obama has Budgeted 22.5%+, as in he has Budgeted high unemployment. Konwing this he keeps pushing hiring more Gov't workers to bring the UNEMPLOYMENT he created back down. This is why he said The private sector, (unemployement 8.2%), is doing just fine. It 's the public sector, (uneployment 4.2%), that hurting!

[jerrym3]

Unless you know something that I don't, even if he does get re-elected, he only has four years before he's in the history books.

So, as President of the United States, not King or Supreme Ruler of the United States, what purpose does this supposed "regulate and control everything" goal serve?

Wouldn't the next President come in, Republican or Democrat, and just undo everything?

SAILSMEN - Social Justice via income redistribution until complete financial collapse resulting in everyone starting at zero.

Wow! Now there's a political goal to strive for. Just imagine the bumper stickers.

If everybody starts off at zero, that means OB, who is not a poor man, and his family join the ranks of the poor.

You seem to overlook the fact that even poiticians are people. They have families, and friends, and co-workers, and a whole bunch of folks that they interact with on a constant basis.

To undertake the goal of putting his family and everyone he knows into a class that must live off the government so that everyone can start off at zero makes absolutely no sense.

He wants his daughters to be poor and live off the government? Who in their right mind wants their kids to do worse than they did?

[PonyUP]

SAILSMEN - Social Justice via income redistribution until complete financial collapse resulting in everyone starting at zero.

Wow! Now there's a political goal to strive for. Just imagine the bumper stickers.

If everybody starts off at zero, that means OB, who is not a poor man, and his family join the ranks of the poor.

You seem to overlook the fact that even poitician's are people. They have families, and friends, and co-workers, and a whole bunch of folks that they interact with on a constant basis.

To undertake the goal of putting his family and everyone he knows into a class that must live off the government so that everyone can start off at zero makes absolutely no sense.

He wants his daughters to be poor and live off the government? Who in their right mind wants their kids to do worse than they did?

I absolutely want to have a beer with you Jerry, bravo, although be prepared, you're about to get googled to death with pages of stats


The Ice Bucket Approves of this message

[CWright]

:popcorn::popcorn: I knew this thread would head down this road! ;)

[boatmangc]

:popcorn::popcorn: I knew this thread would head down this road! ;)

Uhh Huh,
I pay 4.19 for premium right now.

Let's face it, most (not all) politicians are power hungry, greedy crooks.
No matter what party is driving it has very little to do with "We The People" anymore.

This election year the big vote is between 2 men that I don't want in the office they want.

The lesser of 2 evils is still evil.

[DarthVader215]

dam i wish i lived in the south... up here in philly 91 is 3.98 (sunoco) smh

[cruzer]

Pass a law that EVERY CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES ( from the President on down) shall be governed by THE SAME LAWS. They make them, they live by them. There is a bill in Committee that does just that. It doesn't stand a chance to get out of Committee. This would stop career politicians and multi billion political campaigns. Think of all the lives and starving people that could be saved ---scientific reasearch could be funded by the government so senior citizens would not be paying $ 720+ per quater for medication they literally cannot live without (I'm one of these people) No Communism, no Socialism, just a country of people all living under the same law.
that be great ?????????? A tired, but lucky old man who has had the pleasure of living through the worst and the best. GOD BLESS AMERICA Maury