2016

[MyBlackBeasts]

Went to see 2016 last night. Excellent documentory, the info that the media refused to report because of their bias (this was malpractice) exposed by D'Sousa's investigation & research so people can make an informed decision now. Whether you are for him or against him, don't make your decision until you learn who he is. Definately worth the trip to the cinema.

http://2016themovie.com/

[Hadamustang1]

So was like that 911 film for 2004? By Micheal Moore?.. he made alot of money off that BS too!

[MyBlackBeasts]

So was like that 911 film for 2004? By Micheal Moore?.. he made alot of money off that BS too!

No, it was not a hit job.

It was a factual timeline history of O from birth to now with documentation from his teachers, family, friends, aquaintences.

Simply documented factual info.

Watch so you have all info to decide, not the fake picture created by the media.

[jerrym3]

My decision will be based on the question Romney presented the other night.

Are you better off today than you were four years ago?

[Haggis]

My decision will be based on the question Romney presented the other night.

Are you better off today than you were four years ago?

...or is our country better off today then it was 4yrs ago?

[tbone]

No, it was not a hit job.

It was a factual timeline history of O from birth to now with documentation from his teachers, family, friends, aquaintences.

Simply documented factual info.

Watch so you have all info to decide, not the fake picture created by the media.

I saw it. You are exactly right.

[sailsmen]

My decision will be based on the question Romney presented the other night.

Are you better off today than you were four years ago?

Do you favor the Fed printing massive amounts of money, ( a/k/a Q.E.s are printed money which devalues peoples incomes and disproportionately negatively impacts the bottom 50%. http://www.marquetteassociates.com/Research/ChartoftheWeek/ThisWeeksChart/tabid/121/ArticleID/126/Quantitative-Easing-and-the-U-S-Stock-Market.aspx),, to push up equities at the costs of the working man?

Per the Federal Reserve the only Group whose income is increasing is the Group that does not work. Under Obama's economic policies it pays not to work!
Per the Federal Reserve between 2007-10 "...while the median real income fell 7.7% and retirees and non-workers incomes rose"!

"The Fed survey found that the median value of family income, when adjusted for inflation and before taxes, fell by 7.7 percent — from $49,600 in 2007 to $45,800 in 2010. The median is the midpoint of all family income."

"The decline in median income was widespread across demographic groups, with only a few groups experiencing stable or rising incomes," the Fed survey said. "Most noticeably, median incomes moved higher for retirees and other nonworking families."

"Between 2007 and 2009, after-tax earnings by Americans in the top one percent for income fell 37 percent."

[Bigdogjim]

So Obama's dream is his father's dream? And his father's dream was to "downsize" America? HELL NO!!!

[vkirkend]

If you truly believe that things are worse now than 4 years ago you have a very short memory. Just a few things he has done....

(1) stopped the use of torture to interogate prisoners, (2) Employers asked to review , develop, and update employee compensation to ensure its applied consistently and uniformly, (3) pay discrimination based on age, gender, race. national origin, age and disability prohibited, (4) 2010 real GDP increased by 3.4% due to stimulus spending, (5) tax credit of $400 per worked ($800 per couple) for middle income workers for 2009 & 2010 totaling $116 BILLION!

Those are just a few of his accomplishments......

[Krytin]

If you truly believe that things are worse now than 4 years ago you have a very short memory. Just a few things he has done....

(1) stopped the use of torture to interogate prisoners, (2) Employers asked to review , develop, and update employee compensation to ensure its applied consistently and uniformly, (3) pay discrimination based on age, gender, race. national origin, age and disability prohibited, (4) 2010 real GDP increased by 3.4% due to stimulus spending, (5) tax credit of $400 per worked ($800 per couple) for middle income workers for 2009 & 2010 totaling $116 BILLION!

Those are just a few of his accomplishments......

I was just going to point this out.

I and the country are no better off now than right after George W. got done with it - before the election in '08!

[Hadamustang1]

Ya know the thing about movies like that,, they just perpetuate the culture of divisional politics that has stagnated this country for too long now. Fortunately things like this and listening to all the punduits on both sides only engages the 3 to 5 percent of the folks.You know the birthers and the t party folks. The rest of the folks who are of any consequence are to busy getting busy and taking care of each other by working hard and moving this economy forward.But just like Krytin said..


"I and the country are no better off now than right after George W. got done with it - before the election in '08!

[sailsmen]

If you truly believe that things are worse now than 4 years ago you have a very short memory. Just a few things he has done....

(1) stopped the use of torture to interogate prisoners, (2) Employers asked to review , develop, and update employee compensation to ensure its applied consistently and uniformly, (3) pay discrimination based on age, gender, race. national origin, age and disability prohibited, (4) 2010 real GDP increased by 3.4% due to stimulus spending, (5) tax credit of $400 per worked ($800 per couple) for middle income workers for 2009 & 2010 totaling $116 BILLION!

Those are just a few of his accomplishments......

How many "prisoners" has Obama taken? None, they kill them instead. US Special Forces are required to under go this same "torture". This so called tax credit RAIDED Social Security, accelerating it's demise. It applies to all who get a pay check over ~$1,500 per year regardless of how much they make.
"..pay discrimination based on age, gender, race. national origin, age and disability prohibited.." - Obama passed the 1964 Civil Rights Act???? Obama passed the 1990 ADA??? Obama is a time traveler? Obama increased GDP by 3.4% at a cost of ~6.4% of GDP??? It would have had a greater increase in GDP if he would have just sent everyone a check!
USA credit rating down graded, gasoline price doubled, 16mm more on Food Stamps, Unemployment 8.3%, $5 Trillion in NEW DEBT or $17,000 per person. Medicare to become insolvent in 12 years.

8 Year Annual Average Clinton vs Bush
Measurement 60 Year Post WW II Annual Average President Clinton President Bush
8 Years Annual Average Unemployment 5.60% 5.21% 5.26%
8 Years Annual Average Annual Deficit as a Percent of our Economy -1.70% -0.08% -2.00%
8 Years Annual Average Public Debt as a Percent of our Economy 40.80% 44.90% 36.10%
8 Years Annual Average Annual Tax Collections N/A $1.55 Trillion $2.14 Trillion
8 Years Annual Average Spending as a Percent of our economy 19.90% 19.80% 19.60%

3 Year Annual Average Clinton vs Bush vs Obama
Measurement 60 Year Post WW II Annual Average President Clinton President Bush President Obama
3 Years Annual Average Unemployment 5.60% 6.20% 5.50% 9.30%
3 Years Annual Average Annual Deficit as a Percent of our Economy -1.70% -3.00% -1.20% -9.90%
3 Years Annual Average Public Debt as a Percent of our Economy 40.80% 49.20% 33.90% 62.60%
3 Years Annual Average Annual Tax Collections N/A $1.25 Trillion $1.88 Trillion $2.15 Trillion
3 Years Annual Average Spending as a Percent of our economy 19.90% 21.00% 19.00% 24.70%

Note: All Data is from the Government BLS and OMB

[sailsmen]

Ya know the thing about movies like that,, they just perpetuate the culture of divisional politics that has stagnated this country for too long now. Fortunately things like this and listening to all the punduits on both sides only engages the 3 to 5 percent of the folks.You know the birthers and the t party folks. The rest of the folks who are of any consequence are to busy getting busy and taking care of each other by working hard and moving this economy forward.But just like Krytin said..


"I and the country are no better off now than right after George W. got done with it - before the election in '08!

And Obama has made it WORSE, He him self said unemployment would not go above 8% and if he could not get it done in 3 years he would be OUT!

By PATRICK H. CADDELL AND DOUGLAS E. SCHOEN

During the election campaign, Barack Obama sought to appeal to the best instincts of the electorate, to a post-partisan sentiment that he said would reinvigorate our democracy. He ran on a platform of reconciliation—of getting beyond "old labels" of right and left, red and blue states, and forging compromises based on shared values.

President Obama's Inaugural was a hopeful day, with an estimated 1.8 million people on the National Mall celebrating the election of America's first African-American president. The level of enthusiasm, the anticipation and the promise of something better could not have been more palpable.

And yet, it has not been realized. Not at all.

Rather than being a unifier, Mr. Obama has divided America on the basis of race, class and partisanship. Moreover, his cynical approach to governance has encouraged his allies to pursue a similar strategy of racially divisive politics on his behalf. The 'Beer Summit': President Barack Obama, right, and Vice President Joe Biden, left, have a beer with Harvard scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr., second from left, and Cambridge, Mass. police Sgt. James Crowley in the Rose Garden of the White House, July 30, 2009.

We have seen the divisive approach under Republican presidents as well—particularly the administrations of Richard Nixon and George W. Bush. It was wrong then, and it is wrong now. By dividing America, Mr. Obama has brought our government to the brink of a crisis of legitimacy, compromising our ability to address our most important policy issues.

We say this with a heavy heart. Both of us share the president's stated vision of what America can and should be. The struggle for equal rights has animated both of our lives. Both of us were forged politically during the crucible of the civil rights movement. Having worked in the South during the civil rights movement, and on behalf of the ground-breaking elections of African-American mayors such as David Dinkins, Harold Washington and Emanuel Cleaver, we were deeply moved by Mr. Obama's election.

The first hint that as president Mr. Obama would be willing to interject race into the political dialogue came last July, when he jumped to conclusions about the confrontation between Harvard Prof. Henry Louis "Skip" Gates and the Cambridge police.

During a press conference, the president said that the "Cambridge police acted stupidly," and he went on to link the arrest with the "long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately."

In truth, the Gates incident appears to have had nothing to do with race—a Cambridge review committee that investigated the incident ruled on June 30 that there was fault on both sides.

Sen. Jon Kyl (R., Ariz.) has said the president told him in a closed-door meeting that he would not move to secure the border with Mexico unless and until Congress reached a breakthrough on comprehensive immigration reform. That's another indication Mr. Obama is willing to continue to play politics with hot-button issues.

Add in the lawsuit against the Arizona immigration law and it's clear the Obama administration is willing to run the risk of dividing the American people along racial and ethnic lines to mobilize its supporters—particularly Hispanic voters, whose backing it needs in the fall midterm elections and beyond.

As the Washington Post reported last week, two top White House strategists, speaking on condition of anonymity, have indicated that "the White House plans to use the immigration debate to punish the GOP and aggressively seek the Latino vote in 2012."

On an issue that has gotten much less attention, but is potentially just as divisive, the Justice Department has pointedly refused to prosecute three members of the New Black Panther Party for voter intimidation at the polls on Election Day 2008.

It is the job of the Department of Justice to protect all American voters from voter discrimination and voter intimidation—whether committed by the far right, the far left, or the New Black Panthers. It is unacceptable for the Department of Justice to continue to stonewall on this issue.

During the 2008 presidential campaign, Mr. Obama's campaign emphasized repeatedly that his minister, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, was being unfairly stereotyped because of racially incendiary sound bites that allegedly did not reflect the totality of his views. In the Gates incident and others, Mr. Obama has resorted to similar forms of stereotyping.

Even the former head of the Civil Rights Commission, Mary Frances Berry, acknowledged that the Obama administration has taken to polarizing America around the issue of race as a means of diverting attention away from other issues, saying: "the charge of racism is proving to be an effective strategy for Democrats. . . . Having one's opponent rebut charges of racism is far better than discussing joblessness."
The president had a unique opportunity to focus on overarching issues of importance to whites and blacks. He has failed to address the critical challenges. He has not used his bully pulpit to emphasize the importance of racial unity and the common interest of poor whites and blacks who need training, job opportunities, and the possibility of realizing the American Dream. He hasn't done enough to address youth unemployment—which in the white community is 23.2% and in the black community is 39.9%.

Mr. Obama has also cynically divided the country on class lines. He has taken to playing the populist card time and time again. He bashes Wall Street and insurance companies whenever convenient to advance his programs, yet he has been eager to accept campaign contributions and negotiate with these very same banks and corporations behind closed doors in order to advance his political agenda.

Finally, President Obama also exacerbated partisan division, and he has made it clear that he intends to demonize the Republicans and former President George W. Bush in the fall campaign. In April, the Democratic National Committee released a video in which the president directly addressed his divide-and-conquer campaign strategy, with an appeal to: "young people, African-Americans, Latinos, and women who powered our victory in 2008 [to] stand together once again."


President Obama's divisive approach to governance has weakened us as a people and paralyzed our political culture. Meanwhile, the Republican leadership has failed to put forth an agenda that is more positive, unifying or inclusive. We are stronger when we debate issues and purpose, and we are all weaker when we divide by race and class. We will pay a price for this type of politics.

Mr. Caddell served as a pollster for President Jimmy Carter. Mr. Schoen, who served as a pollster for President Bill Clinton, is the author of "The Political Fix" (Henry Holt, 2010).

[PonyUP]

Per the Pony Fed

I am much better off than I was four years ago

I am making much more money, have a good job, got supercharged and no longer waste my time trying to convince one side that they are just as guilty of pulling the same skewed political crap that the other side is

I won't vote for Romney because he isn't running with what he actually believes

He believes in Obamacare, and I don't want to hear the bull that it was only good for a state and not a country

He doesn't agree with the tea party as he is much more progressive, instead he bows to the base by selecting Ryan as a running mate. Why not select who you really wanted?

Republicans would never vote for the President, so why not be the progressive candidate you are and get the independents so you can win this thing?

He could have been a country unifier, instead he's going to continue placating to the tea party telling them what they want to hear

In answer to the question is the country better off, this is totally subjective. The Obama bashers will say no, the supporters yes. Sailsmen will google a ton of crap from one of the 4 million reports made public, list a boatload of stats, that will go no where cause no one in this day and age will read a four page post

Vote for who you want to vote for, it's a personal decision based on personal beliefs.

Bash all you want, it won't change a damn thing on this board or forum. Many people on this forum have proved they can't discuss it like adults, and yet these political threads keep getting created and shut down

When talking politics, we are talking about people's beliefs and about what effects their lives. Respect the other point of view. Because it effects everyone's lives of course the topic is personal and volatile. I suggest we don't discuss it here, if you are interested there are many political forums to join


The Ice Bucket Approves of this message

[justbob]

Voting pro union for keeping my job.. Any other agenda means squat to me. And yes, I am better off now than four years ago. WAY better off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bigdogjim]

What most of the people in the USA do not see is the mounting debt! You might think you personally are doing better but per the Fed's owne report middle class American has lost 40% of it's wealth in the last 4 years.
Link..http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/fed-americans-wealth-dropped-40-percent/2012/06/11/gJQAlIsCVV_story.html
We simply can not keep going in this direction. The Federal Gov. MUST rein in spending. Check the link to the debt clock in my sig.

[vkirkend]

I was just going to point this out.

I and the country are no better off now than right after George W. got done with it - before the election in '08!

Then I'm sorry your situation is not better. But for alot of Americans their jobs and financial stability is better since Obama took office. I don't believe you can speak for the entire country....

[Bigdogjim]

Then I'm sorry your situation is not better. But for alot of Americans their jobs and financial stability is better since Obama took office. I don't believe you can speak for the entire country....

Well 40% of America well not agree. See link in above post

[vkirkend]

What most of the people in the USA do not see is the mounting debt! You might think you personally are doing better but per the Fed's owne report middle class American has lost a sizeable amount of wealth in the last 4 years.

We simply can not keep going in this direction. The Federal Gov. MUST rein in spending. Check the link to the debt clock in my sig.

I agree spendig must be reduced, but until the economy improves Federal and subsuquently with federal funds state spending is keeping many families afloat.

[sailsmen]

Federal Debt and Spending are at new levels. A Nation does not see it's financial collapse until after it has happened.

[sailsmen]

Then I'm sorry your situation is not better. But for alot of Americans their jobs and financial stability is better since Obama took office. I don't believe you can speak for the entire country....

WRONG! Read above facts from the Federal Reserve, OMB, CBO and BLS.

"The Fed survey found that the median value of family income, when adjusted for inflation and before taxes, fell by 7.7 percent — from $49,600 in 2007 to $45,800 in 2010. The median is the midpoint of all family income."

"The decline in median income was widespread across demographic groups, with only a few groups experiencing stable or rising incomes," the Fed survey said. "Most noticeably, median incomes moved higher for retirees and other nonworking families."

[Krytin]

Then I'm sorry your situation is not better. But for alot of Americans their jobs and financial stability is better since Obama took office. I don't believe you can speak for the entire country....

Sorry - my point was that it turned to ***** before the evil socialist/terorist got elected.

[justbob]

Sorry to tell some of you this but the fact is construction jobs went from booming to laid off starting early to mid year '07... It has done nothing but improve for us since with half the numbers of members presently on the out of work list since its worst point being mid '08.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MyBlackBeasts]

Ya know the thing about movies like that,, they just perpetuate the culture of divisional politics that has stagnated this country for too long now. Fortunately things like this and listening to all the punduits on both sides only engages the 3 to 5 percent of the folks.You know the birthers and the t party folks. The rest of the folks who are of any consequence are to busy getting busy and taking care of each other by working hard and moving this economy forward.But just like Krytin said..


"I and the country are no better off now than right after George W. got done with it - before the election in '08!

You are pre-judging. This is not a Michael Moore hatchet job. Simply a documentary of O and his life. All info the media should had given us but didn't. See it before you judge it.

I didn't start the thread to be a pro or con Obama forum. Just offered info, to both sides, to see the real man & not what the media is spoon feeding the public via propaganda so one can make an informed decision. Normal people want to have all the facts (about anything) to make a decision so here is a pile of unknown info, digest it and decide.

[MyBlackBeasts]

Sorry - my point was that it turned to ***** before the evil socialist/terorist got elected.

That's correct. The result of the toxic housing crash. Who was responsible for the colapse? Here are their names (the ones I can remember quickly):

Jimmy Carter - created the CRA

Bill Clinton - Gave the CRA teeth

Franklin Raines - put in charge of Fanny & Freddy and funneled tens of millions of taxpayers $$ in his back pocket and to congressmen & senators campaign funds, to look the other way from the warnings & danger signals of the iminent explosion from banks forced to lend money (by federal law) to people who could not pay it back. They were:

Barney Frank
Nancy Pelosi
Chris Dodd
Senator Obama
Harry Reid
some others I'm missing

In 2000, I think it was, the Bush administration after reviewing the books passed tho them went to congress warning of collapse & wanting something done before economic disaster. They were ignored.

Later McCain made an attempt to address the situation again, He was blown off. Remember the shots of Barney Frank screaming on the floor of Congress that Fanny & Freddy were perfectly ok, all was well... Then a while later - BOOM! Thar she blows!

Then When King O inherited the recession created by this, instead of doing what would pull us out of it he made decision after decision that made things worse & worse. Instead of the average 17 month recession duration we are going on 5 years...

[PonyUP]

That's correct. The result of the toxic housing crash. Who was responsible for the colapse? Here are their names (the ones I can remember quickly):

Jimmy Carter - created the CRA

Bill Clinton - Gave the CRA teeth

Franklin Raines - put in charge of Fanny & Freddy and funneled tens of millions of taxpayers $$ in his back pocket and to congressmen & senators campaign funds, to look the other way from the warnings & danger signals of the iminent explosion from banks forced to lend money (by federal law) to people who could not pay it back. They were:

Barney Frank
Nancy Pelosi
Chris Dodd
Senator Obama
Harry Reid
some others I'm missing

In 2000, I think it was, the Bush administration after reviewing the books passed tho them went to congress warning of collapse & wanting something done before economic disaster. They were ignored.

Later McCain made an attempt to address the situation again, He was blown off. Remember the shots of Barney Frank screaming on the floor of Congress that Fanny & Freddy were perfectly ok, all was well... Then a while later - BOOM! Thar she blows!

Then When King O inherited the recession created by this, instead of doing what would pull us out of it he made decision after decision that made things worse & worse. Instead of the average 17 month recession duration we are going on 5 years...

What if we don't think he made it worse?
That's my point if you hate Obama you can create bull to show he is an anti gun hunting socialist hellbent on bringing down America, if you support him you can create bull to show all his ideas worked.

At the end of the day, we have proven more than one time that we can not discuss politics on this board with reference and respect for all opinions, your post proves that

Love him or hate him, the man is the President, yet we resort to name calling

IBTL


The Ice Bucket Approves of this message

[Bigdogjim]

The bottom line is this

A Goverment big enough to give you everything is big enough to take it away.

What made America great was the fact that if you worked hard it paid off you got your reward. Now all you need to do is sign up for free stuff and let someone else pay the bill.

[SC Cheesehead]

The bottom line is this

A Goverment big enough to give you everything is big enough to take it away.

What made America great was the fact that if you worked hard it paid off you got your reward. Now all you need to do is sign up for free stuff and let someone else pay the bill.


^^^^^ Yup. ^^^^^

Forrest Gump (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000158/): That's all I have to say about that.

[whitey]

Sorry to tell some of you this but the fact is construction jobs went from booming to laid off starting early to mid year '07... It has done nothing but improve for us since with half the numbers of members presently on the out of work list since its worst point being mid '08.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i disagree, as a union sprinkler fitter, jobs have definatly went down since 2008, not up, atleast in our local. ive been laid off 5 times in the past 2 years, currently laid off, because of lack of work. sure, in 2008 i was living in a shithole apartment, now i have a house, i make more money now....but that has nothing to do with obama....it has to do with ME paying off MY bills, MY union contract that gave me a 5% raise every 6 months as an apprentice...not because obama gave me anything.

im not into politics, nor do i care to be....hell, i dont even vote....because it doesn't matter to me.....republicans and democrats, one is going to punch you in the eye, the other will punch you in the nose. which one will you want? niether, and im to ignorent of politics to make an informed decision on who i want in office. i firmly believe its people like me, ignorent of politics, that voted obama into office, just because it was something they could say they were part of the first black president to be elected, not because of the poltical stand point at all. now that all the political craze of having a first black president is gone, i believe this election will be about what really matters, what is best for America.

[guspech750]

Well even though I am in a union. I will not be voting for Obama. I would rather have a country that has to work for what they want. Not what the government wants to give and take. I and many others were union before Obama took office and we will be union after he leaves.

But I'd vote for Mickey Mouse right now if he was the Republican nominee. Anything to keep the Marxist out of office.

Gotta vote for the lesser of two evils.


Sent from my iPhone

4.10's + Eaton swap = Wreeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom

[jerrym3]

Can someone please post where I can get all that free stuff I keep reading about?

(I assume that the handouts don't require any pre-existing conditions, so, if I'm doing just fine, I still get all the free stuff, correct?)

Thanks.

Oh, and here's a list of all the freedoms that I have personally lost since 2008.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

But, I did get gain one very important freedom in 2007 under the leadership of the last Conservative President.

I was freed from getting up in the morning and going to my job.

[fastblackmerc]

Can someone please post where I can get all that free stuff I keep reading about?

(I assume that the handouts don't require any pre-existing conditions, so, if I'm doing just fine, I still get all the free stuff, correct?)

Thanks.

Oh, and here's a list of all the freedoms that I have personally lost since 2008.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

But, I did get gain one very important freedom in 2007 under the leadership of the last Conservative President.

I was freed from getting up in the morning and going to my job.

Well said!

[Bigdogjim]

Can someone please post where I can get all that free stuff I keep reading about?

(I assume that the handouts don't require any pre-existing conditions, so, if I'm doing just fine, I still get all the free stuff, correct?)

Thanks.

Oh, and here's a list of all the freedoms that I have personally lost since 2008.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

But, I did get gain one very important freedom in 2007 under the leadership of the last Conservative President.

I was freed from getting up in the morning and going to my job.
It does not take to get on the gravy train. I watch people lie their on all the time:mad2:People in charge of these programs do not really ask a lot of questions and for a fact I know people that several FREE cell phones that the rest of us are paying for.

Unempolyment? OK In New Jersey years ago if you signed up then each week you had to return a form stating that you applyed for work and the Company were you went had to sign off and you need to return it before your check was issued. Oh and at least 3 Companys per week. Now? Nothing sit home party relax, sleep all day watch cableTV, they just send a check.

[PonyUP]

Everyone can say all the propaganda they want, they can call the President names, and call him a communist.

But how stocks go, so does the country, see the great depression. You can't completely rebound from a collapse like what we had in 07 in 4 years, especially as it pertains to unemployment.

The only thing that fixed unemployment was WW II and that's not going to happen again, it a slow painful process

Stocks completely rebound the first year Obama was in office and they have stayed there, unemployment has been dropping but at a slow rate.

Business are returning to their 2007 level. This has been the most inactive congress we have ever seen passing the lowest amount of legislation ever.

So while all of you are willing to cast blame on all democrats, I'm curious if you are also willing to accept some of the responsibility?

It take two parties to not work with each other

If the Republicans weren't do hell bent on repealing healthcare and if the democrats would reach across the aisle and work towards a middle ground, things would get better.

But can we really expect that from our politicians when we can't even respect opposing views on this board


The Ice Bucket Approves of this message

[Ozark Marauder]

I've read this entire thread, and see the good points on both sides. I think one of the the best I've read is Pony Up's, "Vote for who you want to vote for, it's a personal decision based on personal beliefs."

I personally think the government runs best on "Balance".....read compromise. Some of the best legislation passed is when one party controls the legislature and the other the Presidency, and vice versa. Both parties moving opposite directions toward compromise for the betterment of the country.

I personally vote Libertarian. I know what your thinking, he's wasting his vote, but I vote . I grew up with both parents being Libertarian, it's what I know. It's what I believe.

Hey Whitey, "im not into politics, nor do i care to be....hell, i dont even vote....because it doesn't matter to me". Really? Then you say "i believe this election will be about what really matters, what is best for America." So... I assume you will exercise your right this time around....please do your vote counts!

I just hope that both sides get beyond the back and forth bickering, accusations. Both sides have ample quotes and documentations supporting their positions. Fantasy thought? well maybe..but there's no where else to go from here but up in our beloved nation..

Pretty much sums it up:

JxFb5Z5eSEI

JMO....OZ

[Horsepower]

Sad part is , we're not the only country going through these same issues. As if all the world leaders have taken a trip to la-la land with no return to reality.

[jerrym3]

It does not take to get on the gravy train. I watch people lie their on all the time:mad2:People in charge of these programs do not really ask a lot of questions and for a fact I know people that several FREE cell phones that the rest of us are paying for.

Unempolyment? OK In New Jersey years ago if you signed up then each week you had to return a form stating that you applyed for work and the Company were you went had to sign off and you need to return it before your check was issued. Oh and at least 3 Companys per week. Now? Nothing sit home party relax, sleep all day watch cableTV, they just send a check.

You are correct. I had to fill out a form stating which companies I sent resumes to. I sent them out every week.

I got zero return. Why?

Companies aren't stupid. They saw my job history and quickly calculated my age and salary requirements. File closed.

Now, as for sitting back and collecting checks, I don't disagree, but there is a point when those checks will stop coming. Then what?

And, those checks do not equal the money that the unemployed person made while working. This affects your ability to party...and pay your bills.

Then there's the subject of Healthcare.

I received Healthcare for a while from my old company, and then I went on Medicare. But, I had to go out in the market for my wife's Healthcare. (She's five years younger than I.)

(PS, thanks, NJ, for making pre-existing conditions a non-issue.)

Believe me, given the choice, I would never have voluntarily decided to stay home sitting on my butt collecting checks knowing that it all ends, and one major illness could be catastophic.

That would just be dumb.

[Ms. Denmark]

I take no side here but can tell you (anecdotal )that the local economy that affects my life and the lives of people I know (friends, co-workers, local business owners) is in decline and showing no improvement My company (privately owned) froze everyone's pay for 24 months and gave no increases or cost of living adjustment. At the same time, our benefit package shrank; life insurance was cancelled, health benefit premiums (once paid for 100% by my employer for the employee) now are paid for in part by the employee BUT the coverage has been reduced and the co-pay has been doubled resulting in significant increase out of pocket costs. Annual raises were given this year in the 2-3% range while at the same time the cost of getting to work (gas, tires, car maintenance has risen far beyond that). Of course my retirement investments have taken several downturns and the value of my home has dropped. In all my life I have never personally known so many people who have been laid off, had hours cut and have not been able to find full time employment with any degree of stability. My neighbor who works in the auto business has been laid off 3 times. Our friends in the construction /contractor business aren't working. I have never worried about finding another job if I left mine, but now I do. And I do not know when or IF I can afford to retire.

The personal result of this "new normal" economic reality is that I have downsized my household budget and this in turn has impacted the economy in my little corner of the world. We used to employ a housekeeper once a week, and a guy to cut the lawn. We used to eat out at one of our local sports bars, order Chinese or pizza 2-3 times a week. We used to give 2-3 big catered parties every year, we used to fly out to see my family on the west coast twice a year (and take a local limo service to the airport), I used to think nothing of driving the 45+ miles round trip to shop at the mall, I used to pick up breakfast at Starbucks every morning on my way to work, I used to order lunch several times a week rather than bring it from home, I used to get a manicure every 3 weeks. Used to....but not any more. Fortunately, none of those thing are vital and many are mere luxuries. The point is that it supported somebody else's livelihood right here where I live. We live in a small town. Things are not looking good from where I sit.

[vkirkend]

How many "prisoners" has Obama taken? None, they kill them instead. US Special Forces are required to under go this same "torture". This so called tax credit RAIDED Social Security, accelerating it's demise. It applies to all who get a pay check over ~$1,500 per year regardless of how much they make.
"..pay discrimination based on age, gender, race. national origin, age and disability prohibited.." - Obama passed the 1964 Civil Rights Act???? Obama passed the 1990 ADA??? Obama is a time traveler? Obama increased GDP by 3.4% at a cost of ~6.4% of GDP??? It would have had a greater increase in GDP if he would have just sent everyone a check!
USA credit rating down graded, gasoline price doubled, 16mm more on Food Stamps, Unemployment 8.3%, $5 Trillion in NEW DEBT or $17,000 per person. Medicare to become insolvent in 12 years.

8 Year Annual Average Clinton vs Bush
Measurement 60 Year Post WW II Annual Average President Clinton President Bush
8 Years Annual Average Unemployment 5.60% 5.21% 5.26%
8 Years Annual Average Annual Deficit as a Percent of our Economy -1.70% -0.08% -2.00%
8 Years Annual Average Public Debt as a Percent of our Economy 40.80% 44.90% 36.10%
8 Years Annual Average Annual Tax Collections N/A $1.55 Trillion $2.14 Trillion
8 Years Annual Average Spending as a Percent of our economy 19.90% 19.80% 19.60%

3 Year Annual Average Clinton vs Bush vs Obama
Measurement 60 Year Post WW II Annual Average President Clinton President Bush President Obama
3 Years Annual Average Unemployment 5.60% 6.20% 5.50% 9.30%
3 Years Annual Average Annual Deficit as a Percent of our Economy -1.70% -3.00% -1.20% -9.90%
3 Years Annual Average Public Debt as a Percent of our Economy 40.80% 49.20% 33.90% 62.60%
3 Years Annual Average Annual Tax Collections N/A $1.25 Trillion $1.88 Trillion $2.15 Trillion
3 Years Annual Average Spending as a Percent of our economy 19.90% 21.00% 19.00% 24.70%

Note: All Data is from the Government BLS and OMB

How many prisoners did Bush or Clinton take? I think none, but who condoned torturing prisoners? I think just one of the above. The so called tax raid was a continuation I believe of the policy of the past president that you seem to be so enamored with. No Obama is not a time traveler but changes have be made in previous laws to better protect the rights of people that have been unjustly treated in the past and in some instances are still being discriminated against. Do you think that it's easy to get a job after you've been laid off and you're 50 or older or have a disability? And if you think the country is in worse shape than when he took office, just talk to a GM, Chrysler or AIG worker or one of the many subcontractors who would have gone to the unemployment lines if those jobs had gone away. And how many more of the good paying manufacturing jobs would have gone overseas as a result. Our economy is still weak, but it would have collapsed if Obama and Congress had not done something immediately after he took office to stop the hemmoraging. Sunday morning quarterbacks can always find fault with the plays that were called after the game. I say give him credit for the things that he did that helped the nation. I'm not saying he's perfect, but I believe without some of the actions he took we as aa nation would be in much worse shape.

[vkirkend]

Per the Pony Fed

I am much better off than I was four years ago

I am making much more money, have a good job, got supercharged and no longer waste my time trying to convince one side that they are just as guilty of pulling the same skewed political crap that the other side is

I won't vote for Romney because he isn't running with what he actually believes

He believes in Obamacare, and I don't want to hear the bull that it was only good for a state and not a country

He doesn't agree with the tea party as he is much more progressive, instead he bows to the base by selecting Ryan as a running mate. Why not select who you really wanted?

Republicans would never vote for the President, so why not be the progressive candidate you are and get the independents so you can win this thing?

He could have been a country unifier, instead he's going to continue placating to the tea party telling them what they want to hear

In answer to the question is the country better off, this is totally subjective. The Obama bashers will say no, the supporters yes. Sailsmen will google a ton of crap from one of the 4 million reports made public, list a boatload of stats, that will go no where cause no one in this day and age will read a four page post

Vote for who you want to vote for, it's a personal decision based on personal beliefs.

Bash all you want, it won't change a damn thing on this board or forum. Many people on this forum have proved they can't discuss it like adults, and yet these political threads keep getting created and shut down

When talking politics, we are talking about people's beliefs and about what effects their lives. Respect the other point of view. Because it effects everyone's lives of course the topic is personal and volatile. I suggest we don't discuss it here, if you are interested there are many political forums to join


The Ice Bucket Approves of this message

Well spoken and I agree. It's too bad that some including politicians and so called national and local leaders try to portray that they are speaking for the country when they are only speaking for themselves.

[vkirkend]

The bottom line is this

A Goverment big enough to give you everything is big enough to take it away.

What made America great was the fact that if you worked hard it paid off you got your reward. Now all you need to do is sign up for free stuff and let someone else pay the bill.

Just so we're clear, I have never been an advocate for taking care of able bodied people that can work but choose not to. I believe that any assistance for able bodied Americans should have a definitive time limit on it including extended un employment for people that were laid off as a result of the recession. At some point you have to get back on your feet on your own.

[guspech750]

Here is a simple definition of our Fked up government.

http://img.tapatalk.com/638e21d7-7c6b-e7ee.jpg


We need to get rid of democrats and republicans and just have people who represent us PERIOD!


Sent from my iPhone

4.10's + Eaton swap = Wreeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom

[GAMike]

I am not better off than 4 years ago, but I do not blame a President for that..........

Politicians are mirrors of ourselves....... If we bridge our differences, and work together in our communities, we will send a much stronger message to our elected representatives regarding the expectations we have for them.....

There is truth to the "Lots more unites us, than divides us" phrase, but we continually allow the media to set the narrative. We are like sheep... Void of independent problem solving capabilities... Meanwhile Repub & Dem Politicians ride all over D.C. in Limo's living it up rather than finding compromise (and they are happy to do nothing I hope you know...Both sides)......Why? Because thats not what their constituents are demanding........

Ammendments of the Constitution are neglected/ignored in every adminstration. That is because the outcome of that neglect, is more desirous than the adherence to the principles on which our country was founded.......

Alot of folks today, place dimishing value on history because they don't understand the effect of it/the absense of it in their present lives.

Some politicians feel these ammendments are Chess peices to be moved around/played with depending on the time in history (or how much can be gained & type of gain...{monetary, political, future favor} from the move)........Others believe in a more rigid interpertation of our founding principles (If we move them around, the water gets muddy and any trace of orginal founding principle will be lost).....

The truth lies in the middle....... Evolution not only happens in species, it happens in government........ The thing, is to never forget where you came from, as it is the moral compass for our country. It does not have to dominate the discussion, but it should never be ignored or passed off as obsolete..... Send that message to D.C. See what gets done.......

I am not a huge Romney fan.... I see him as the lessor of 2 evils tho.
He has more qualifications this country needs at this time in our history.... We may as well give him a chance.......

[guspech750]

I am not a huge Romney fan.... I see him as the lessor of 2 evils tho.
He has more qualifications this country needs at this time in our history.... We may as well give him a chance.......

Same here. I see Romney as the lessor of two evils.

They both suck. Just one a little bit less than the other.

It's like that every 4 years:(

When will a true winner show up?




Sent from my iPhone

4.10's + Eaton swap = Wreeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom

[jerrym3]

The problem is that you don't know what you're getting with a politician until you've elected him or her. And, there's no refund policy or test drive period.

I keep reading that OB didn't realize how bad things were when he took office.

What? Even I did.

And, even if he didn't on Day 1, he should have by Day 101. He should have spent more time on the economy and less on healthcare. (Your car needs a good running engine first. Then, you replace the radio.)

Now, if elected, is Romney going to cut the size of Government? Of course not. That would put too many people out of work.

And, as I've said before, employed government workers pay taxes and spend money; unemployed government workers collect unemployment.

Also, please tell me at what point our military is strong enough.

But, again, cutting the military budget puts people out of work, so that will never happen.

As far as Romney's "I wanted OB to succeed, because I wanted America to succeed" comment during the RNC, as John Stuart so eloquently put it the other night:

BULL (censored) S**T

I could not agree more.

Note: Today's paper (Bergen Record, NJ):"China's auto parts giant, Wanxiang Group Corp provided a 465 million dollar rescue package for a US battery maker, A123 Systems. China now has a major stake in a world-class battery developer for cars."

Gee, and I thought the Chinese were intelligent business people. Guess I was wrong.

[tbone]

That's correct. The result of the toxic housing crash. Who was responsible for the colapse? Here are their names (the ones I can remember quickly):

Jimmy Carter - created the CRA

Bill Clinton - Gave the CRA teeth

Franklin Raines - put in charge of Fanny & Freddy and funneled tens of millions of taxpayers $$ in his back pocket and to congressmen & senators campaign funds, to look the other way from the warnings & danger signals of the iminent explosion from banks forced to lend money (by federal law) to people who could not pay it back. They were:

Barney Frank
Nancy Pelosi
Chris Dodd
Senator Obama
Harry Reid
some others I'm missing

In 2000, I think it was, the Bush administration after reviewing the books passed tho them went to congress warning of collapse & wanting something done before economic disaster. They were ignored.

Later McCain made an attempt to address the situation again, He was blown off. Remember the shots of Barney Frank screaming on the floor of Congress that Fanny & Freddy were perfectly ok, all was well... Then a while later - BOOM! Thar she blows!

Then When King O inherited the recession created by this, instead of doing what would pull us out of it he made decision after decision that made things worse & worse. Instead of the average 17 month recession duration we are going on 5 years...


Yep, this is exactly how the Democrats destroyed the country and then turned it on the Republicans in the Blame Bush Campaign that will never end. Obama said if he didn't turn things around in 3 years it would be a one term proposition. He should start packing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM

[jerrym3]

Yep, this is exactly how the Democrats destroyed the country and then turned it on the Republicans in the Blame Bush Campaign that will never end. Obama said if he didn't turn things around in 3 years it would be a one term proposition. He should start packing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM

OK, tbone, but I heard an awful lot about "leadership" last week at the RNC.

Where was our Conservative leader back then?

It's either 1) GW was a poor leader, or 2) when the deck is stacked against you and your policies, you can't win, even if you're trying to do what's right for the country.

Which is it?

(Notice how I didn't call our past President any derogatory names? And, if OB really is "King OB", as mentioned in an earlier post, why are we having an election in the first place?)

[MM2004]

These political threads really need to stop. Join another site to discuss politics.

Mike.