4:10 Gears - How much additional Performance vs Cost

[HBTMD]

Now that I have the marvelous Baer 14" front brake kit on my 03 Blk MM it is a whole lot easier to stop and a lot more fun to drive. :banana:

I would like to add some additional performance, yet still keep the price reasonable.

What should I expect to pay for some 4:10 gears with installation by a qualified mechanic?

How much additional performance should I expect?

Regards :beer:

Howard in Fresno & Las Vegas

Orig owner 03 Blk MM 35,000 miles :drive:
Reinhart Tune & Cold Air Intake
Baer 14" Front Brake Kit
SS TCE Brake lines
SS inserts
Kenwood KVT 512 Stereo with Garmin NAV

[MMcactusflower]

I will be most interested to read the replies here since that mod (and a tune)...is what I want to do next (currently only have the K & N done)...after the 2nd cat removal and res delete tips...soon to come in december...YEA!

[Bluerauder]

What should I expect to pay for some 4:10 gears with installation by a qualified mechanic?

How much additional performance should I expect?

SpartaPerformance (a vendor here) was offering the FORD 4.10 Gears for $149.99 back awhile ago >>>>> http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=77878

Installation will probably run $300-350. Best to get someone to do it right. Installation info here >>>> http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=83665

Probably won't notice too much in performance with just the gears alone.

However, most here agree that a tune and gears is about the best bang for the buck you can get in MM performance. A tuner with a custom tune from one of the folks recommended here will run about $400-600 depending on the specific tuner device (e.g. SCT Excal3 vs. Live Wire or other).

If I missed the mark on some of the prices, I am sure others will chime in.

[Curless]

I just did this to my 03. My car was stone stock. It is UNBELIEVABLE the difference it makes. You'll need gears, instal kit, gear lube, posi additive, posi rebuild kit (if you need it), tuner and a tune. I put a girdled cover on my car as well. All said and done I'd say if you are paying a shop to do it you'll have about $1400 in it.

Check this post out...


http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=83482

[fastblackmerc]

The cost depends on the labor rate the mechanic charges.

For instance... my 4.10 installation cost $250.00 (labor only) and a case of beer. :beer::beer:

Check with your local Mustang clubs for recommendations.

[WhatsUpDOHC]

Now that I have the marvelous Baer 14" front brake kit on my 03 Blk MM it is a whole lot easier to stop and a lot more fun to drive. :banana:

I would like to add some additional performance, yet still keep the price reasonable.

What should I expect to pay for some 4:10 gears with installation by a qualified mechanic?

How much additional performance should I expect?

Regards :beer:

Howard in Fresno & Las Vegas

Orig owner 03 Blk MM 35,000 miles :drive:
Reinhart Tune & Cold Air Intake
Baer 14" Front Brake Kit
SS TCE Brake lines
SS inserts
Kenwood KVT 512 Stereo with Garmin NAV
Now that you can stop, you need to Goooooooooo!

It doesn't, usually, happen in that order.

[IwantmyMMnow!]

Can't remember the exact amount I paid for my SCT tuner...I wanna say $250....will have to look at my checking account to find the canxd check.

Just the custom tune alone makes the car more fun to drive; I probably should put my tuner up for sale, since the next upgrade that would require a re-tune would be adding a blower.

For my 410 install, I spent $140 on gear set, $200 on labor, and another $105 to have rear diff rebuilt.

I've got a thread on here about my 410 install....I think it's titled '410s going on Tuesday'...turned out I didn't get them put on until Thursday, though...

[fastblackmerc]

Can't remember the exact amount I paid for my SCT tuner...I wanna say $250....will have to look at my checking account to find the canxd check.

Just the custom tune alone makes the car more fun to drive; I probably should put my tuner up for sale, since the next upgrade that would require a re-tune would be adding a blower.

For my 410 install, I spent $140 on gear set, $200 on labor, and another $105 to have rear diff rebuilt.

I've got a thread on here about my 410 install....I think it's titled '410s going on Tuesday'...turned out I didn't get them put on until Thursday, though...
You'll still need your tuner to setup for the blower.

[MyBlackBeasts]

How much additional performance should I expect?


Check it out:

Part 1: http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=79929

Part 2: http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=80809

:burnout:

[guspech750]

First I had just a tune. Great mod. Then I bought a JLT intake, then 4.10 gears/4.10 tune along with under-drive pulleys. I thought that was a great and fun combo and well worth the $$$$$

BUT!!!!

Beware.

Once you Mod, you may want more. It happened to me :burnout:



Sent from my iPhone 4S

DTR + 4.10's + Eaton swap = Wreeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom

[IwantmyMMnow!]

You'll still need your tuner to setup for the blower.

I realize that, but I seriously doubt I'll have the $$$ to throw down on a blower in the near and distant future...

[tbone]

First I had just a tune. Great mod. Then I bought a JLT intake, then 4.10 gears/4.10 tune along with under-drive pulleys. I thought that was a great and fun combo and well worth the $$$$$

BUT!!!!

Beware.

Once you Mod, you may want more. It happened to me :burnout:



Sent from my iPhone 4S

DTR + 4.10's + Eaton swap = Wreeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom

OMG! Just look at my list below. My car was STOCK before I joined this stupid forum! And all the mods I've done are not even listed here!
:rolleyes:

[SC Cheesehead]

4.10 gears and a tune will make a noticeable difference. In terms of 1/4 times, bone stock I ran a 15.6, after installing the gears and tune I ran a 14.75.

[Ken]

and a case of beer. :beer::beer:

otherwise, known as a tip for a job well done. :banana2:

[fastblackmerc]

otherwise, known as a tip for a job well done. :banana2:

You Sir are correct!

Gave it to him AFTER the install...... :D

[HBTMD]

4.10 gears and a tune will make a noticeable difference. In terms of 1/4 times, bone stock I ran a 15.6, after installing the gears and tune I ran a 14.75.


Once I have the 4:10 gears installed will a new tune compensate for the speedometer changes?

Will a new tune for 4:10 gears be substantially different from the Reinhart Tune I already have and am quite happy with? :party:

[fastblackmerc]

Once I have the 4:10 gears installed will a new tune compensate for the speedometer changes?

Will a new tune for 4:10 gears be substantially different from the Reinhart Tune I already have and am quite happy with? :party:

Get DR to send you a new tune to compensate for the 4.10 gear change.

[REVINKEVIN]

We just did the .410 upgrade to my moms car. You say your's is an '03 right? The '03 Marauders have the soft axles. Well, this '03 we have did have that problem. So, the $375 installation of the $130 .410 gears ended up being $1100 after new axles, bearings, fluids, and gear install. We have had this car for about 5 months now. Since then I added the SCT tuner, K&N filter, new spark plugs, fuel filter, and the .410's. That adds up to around $1450 or so. This has really changed this car. It now pulls like an '87 Grand National. When we first got it we did a little 30 mph roll on against my wife's 2010 Escalade. The Escalade was able to pull away pretty easy. We have to try that again.

[Vortech347]

Gears totally make these cars feel smaller, lighter, and more peppy. I love em. If I didn't drive my car 90+ a lot on road trips I would have 4.30's.

[REVINKEVIN]

Hey VORTECH347. I need to send you a vidio of my friends '03 Cobra running 5.39 @ 141mph in the 1/8th. I have another friend with an '03 that makes 798rwhp and another friend who's '03 convertible that makes 756rwhp. Those cars can get very crazy. Are there any 700rwhp Marauders out there?

[MOTOWN]

Hey VORTECH347. I need to send you a vidio of my friends '03 Cobra running 5.39 @ 141mph in the 1/8th. I have another friend with an '03 that makes 798rwhp and another friend who's '03 convertible that makes 756rwhp. Those cars can get very crazy. Are there any 700rwhp Marauders out there?

Sure the are! and i know of another in da makin!;)

[rayjay]

The gears can be found cheap enough. As stated its the install that costs. It also needs to be done properly, with the correct equipment by a knowledgeable tech. No shade tree jobs here or you'll pay in the end. It made quite a difference in my car. My install cost me the price of all the necessary parts, lubes, to do the exact same thing to a Mustang. I'm lucky, my friend is a Ford Master Tech incharge of the Ford Assest Program at the local state university.

[HBTMD]

We just did the .410 upgrade to my moms car. You say your's is an '03 right? The '03 Marauders have the soft axles. Well, this '03 we have did have that problem. So, the $375 installation of the $130 .410 gears ended up being $1100 after new axles, bearings, fluids, and gear install. We have had this car for about 5 months now. Since then I added the SCT tuner, K&N filter, new spark plugs, fuel filter, and the .410's. That adds up to around $1450 or so. This has really changed this car. It now pulls like an '87 Grand National. When we first got it we did a little 30 mph roll on against my wife's 2010 Escalade. The Escalade was able to pull away pretty easy. We have to try that again.

I have a 2003 MM.

What are soft axels?

Why do the soft axels need to be upgraded when you add the 4:10 gears?

Sounds like the simple addition of some 4:10 gears is not only a lot more expensive than I thought, but outright dangerous if you don't get a top notch mechanic to do
the work. :(

Perhaps I'll just add a spoiler to the back and make the MM look like it goes alot faster. :burn:

Regards / Howard

[JBFTech]

The soft axle issue, is that they are more prone to snapping under a lot of force, and also are more prone to wearing on the bearings. The reasoning behind having it done professionally, is so that EVERYTHING gets torqued to correct specifications, and so that pinion depth and backlash are set correctly. Otherwise, bolts can back out, and you can have all sorts of whines, grinds, and pops if not set up correctly, which means you will be paying to tear it down again very soon. It's cheaper to set it up right the first time through a pro, than to keep paying the shade tree until he gets it right! Plus any parts that get ruined through a cheap install. So don't let anything scare you away from it, just make sure you find a reputable tech to do it, prices do vary.


Sent from my SR-71 using Tapatalk

[REVINKEVIN]

Soft axles means that, in our case, the bearing surface on the axle shaft was very badly worn and pitted. Since this car will more than likely go to the drag strip and get a supercharger, we had it fixed while everything was out. Now, the rear end is set up and I can focus on collecting blower parts. With the items I origanally listed you will be very happy with your Marauder. For this project it is really just a start.

[Vortech347]

If you have soft axles and they haven't reared their head yet then you either have a car with 30-40k or your axles are fine.

[Curless]

The Grand Marq we did the other day had 145,000 on it.

[HBTMD]

If you have soft axles and they haven't reared their head yet then you either have a car with 30-40k or your axles are fine.

I just reached 35,000 miles on my recent trip to Las Vegas. :party:

Everything seems to be working fine. No funny noises or other symptoms. :banana:

My MM rolled off the assembly line in February 2003.

Anything I should be looking for? :shake:

Regards :beer:

Howard in Fresno & Las Vegas

Orig Owner 2003 MM Blk
Reinhart Tune & COI
Baer Front Brake Kit
TCE SS Brake Lines
SS Inserts
Kenwood GPS & Stereo

[Vortech347]

You maybe ok. My 03' was a late 02' production and the axles were chewed to hell at 30k.

[IwantmyMMnow!]

I just reached 35,000 miles on my recent trip to Las Vegas. :party:

Everything seems to be working fine. No funny noises or other symptoms. :banana:

My MM rolled off the assembly line in February 2003.

Anything I should be looking for? :shake:

Regards :beer:

Take your car to a reputable mechanic in your area and have him inspect your rear axle. Whether you upgrade to 410s or not, a bad axle needs to be addressed first. I've seen some posts on here where people have said it cost $700+ to have 410s installed, but they had to have a new axle as well, which is not part of the 410 cost equation...the axle will need to be replaced regardless. In my case, I paid $140 for the gear set and $200 for labor (which included all fluids) to have 410s installed; my total bill was more because I opted to have the rear diff rebuilt ($105 more) since the gear box was open and I had 90k on the car.

I asked the mechanic I used to inspect my axle before he did anything....pointless to install 410s if you've got a bad axle. He gave it a thumbs up; haven't had any issues since the 410s were intsalled.

JMO...I had the exact same concerns you have and understand where you are coming from...there are more things to consider than just swapping out a gear set. Take your time, do some homework/legwork, get it done right the first time and you'll be g-t-g...good luck!

[Curless]

One thing that most people are forgetting is you HAVE to have a tune with gear instals. Our cars have computer controlled trannys that must be re calibrated for installing gears. SO the "gear instal" is not just that. There is more that is absolutely necessary with a gear swap...so the gear swap costs more...period.

[rocky]

One thing that most people are forgetting is you HAVE to have a tune with gear instals. Our cars have computer controlled trannys that must be re calibrated for installing gears. SO the "gear instal" is not just that. There is more that is absolutely necessary with a gear swap...so the gear swap costs more...period.

YES! I got my 4:10s installed about 6 months ago by a buddy(Ford tech not shade tree crap) but my speedo is about 9mph off and will be until I buy a tuner or sell it...gear made into a fun daily driver tho:D

I have another ford tech friend who thinks he can hook up the scanner and trick the pcm by telling it different tire sizes...I dont think so but has anyone ever set the speedo without a TUNER??? Its easy with trucks because there are so many tire/gear ratio options you can change in the pcm but not much on the option list for panthers,,,

[MM2004]

YES! I got my 4:10s installed about 6 months ago by a buddy(Ford tech not shade tree crap) but my speedo is about 9mph off and will be until I buy a tuner or sell it...gear made into a fun daily driver tho:D

I have another ford tech friend who thinks he can hook up the scanner and trick the pcm by telling it different tire sizes...I dont think so but has anyone ever set the speedo without a TUNER??? Its easy with trucks because there are so many tire/gear ratio options you can change in the pcm but not much on the option list for panthers,,,

Buy a tuner with a custom tune and don't try "tricking" anything.

The custom tunes for our MM's make adjustments for much more than just final drive ratio.

You won't regret it.

Mike.

[Curless]

YES! I got my 4:10s installed about 6 months ago by a buddy(Ford tech not shade tree crap) but my speedo is about 9mph off and will be until I buy a tuner or sell it...gear made into a fun daily driver tho:D

I have another ford tech friend who thinks he can hook up the scanner and trick the pcm by telling it different tire sizes...I dont think so but has anyone ever set the speedo without a TUNER??? Its easy with trucks because there are so many tire/gear ratio options you can change in the pcm but not much on the option list for panthers,,,


I can't believe you drive it like this...:lol: You do realize that the shift timing is all jacked up right? Its not good for the trans at all to run that way.

[rayjay]

YES! I got my 4:10s installed about 6 months ago by a buddy(Ford tech not shade tree crap) but my speedo is about 9mph off and will be until I buy a tuner or sell it...gear made into a fun daily driver tho:D

I have another ford tech friend who thinks he can hook up the scanner and trick the pcm by telling it different tire sizes...I dont think so but has anyone ever set the speedo without a TUNER??? Its easy with trucks because there are so many tire/gear ratio options you can change in the pcm but not much on the option list for panthers,,,

What year is yours? With my 04 I had to "detune" mine every year to pass NYS inspection. Which meant driving for about 175-200 miles to reset all the parameters. My tranny acted really funky the two years I did this. My speedo was way off and was not predictable as it was off by different amounts at different speeds/gears. That and the car did not shift correctly at all.

[Vortech347]

With 3.73's and 4.10's both my MM's drove fine with a stock tune, the speedo was just way off.

[jimbok1951]

Quoted $350 410 gears and Sparta 4210-C3 install kit. I provide parts.
Quoted $440 Sparta 4210-C3 install kit, plus M4700 carbon fiber clutch pack. I provide parts.

43000 miles on MM, shop stated I will have it apart and good insurance. Parts & labor is quite a difference between the two prices. Opinions welcomed.

Tommy (Sparta), appreciate if you chime in.

[WhatsUpDOHC]

Jim, were these group buy prices?

[jimbok1951]

Me & Mark spoke with Joe ,owner @ JD performance & he remembered you about the tune said give him a call. He sated if more than one he will give some discounts, guess depends on the numbers. Anyone got intrest in philly area, let me know mabey we can work something out. Me & jonsun1 visted the shop, and seemed like a stand up guy, walked the shop, and could be a good source for Phila & NJ area. Mustangs, Vetts, classics in the lot & in the shop, real busy. Jonsun1 asked about trans cooler & installing cooling (he has a the Musclemerc mod), not a problem he says. I asked about J mod, Joe said he could do it.

[justbob]

Do you do a considerable amount of highway driving? If not, why not 4.30's?? I LOVE them!


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

[cat in the hat]

Quoted $350 410 gears and Sparta 4210-C3 install kit. I provide parts.
Quoted $440 Sparta 4210-C3 install kit, plus M4700 carbon fiber clutch pack. I provide parts.

43000 miles on MM, shop stated I will have it apart and good insurance. Parts & labor is quite a difference between the two prices. Opinions welcomed.

Tommy (Sparta), appreciate if you chime in.

That's JD's in Huntingdon Valley ?

My regular guy just quoted me $350 labor for the full install, I provide the parts, so that's right in the ballpark.
They don't specialize in Fords but they're solid mechanics and they know performance mods, they're old-school Atco guys.

[Vortech347]

Gears are god damn awesome. Very little sacrifice in mpg in the sub 80mph range.

[marauder21]

Anyone know the difference of hp and or torque? Going from 3.55 to 4.10

SOON!!!


(Godwilling lol)

[fastblackmerc]

Anyone know the difference of hp and or torque? Going from 3.55 to 4.10

SOON!!!


(Godwilling lol)

HP & torque will not change by changing rear end gears.

[rocky]

Anyone know the difference of hp and or torque? Going from 3.55 to 4.10

SOON!!!


(Godwilling lol)

It FEELS like a big HP gain, or like your car just lost 500 lbs

But not going to affect the dyno


Sent from my iPhone 5

[marauder21]

HP & torque will not change by changing rear end gears.

Ooohhhhh someone was telling me it gave more torque-_- HA what a fail...well hopefully i wouldn't be disappointed:)..i did hear you lose top speed with a higher gear ratio right?

[rayjay]

Ooohhhhh someone was telling me it gave more torque-_- HA what a fail...well hopefully i wouldn't be disappointed:)..i did hear you lose top speed with a higher gear ratio right?

Unless you are into going 150mph I would not worry about the top end speed loss. You may need to have your drive shaft balanced if you are going to wind her out with 4.10s. I've personally had no issues. Then again I rarely go triple digits.

[fastblackmerc]

Ooohhhhh someone was telling me it gave more torque-_- HA what a fail...well hopefully i wouldn't be disappointed:)..i did hear you lose top speed with a higher gear ratio right?

No, you won't lose any top speed.

How often do you travel at "top speed"?

What is the "top speed" of the MM?


Unless you are into going 150mph I would not worry about the top end speed loss. You may need to have your drive shaft balanced if you are going to wind her out with 4.10s. I've personally had no issues. Then again I rarely go triple digits.

IF you have an unbalanced drive shaft....

IF you run in the triple digits for extended periods of time ......

Then you MIGHT experience transmission tailshaft failure. You know it long before it happens.

[Mac-MerC]

To Whomever is contemplating 4:10s

Just buy the damn gears and put them in. I procrastinated and felt like a dumbass after I finally bought some and got them installed. What everyones says is true. The car should have came like this... and it does feel like 500lbs lighter.

[rayjay]

No, you won't lose any top speed.

How often do you travel at "top speed"?

What is the "top speed" of the MM?



IF you have an unbalanced drive shaft....

IF you run in the triple digits for extended periods of time ......

Then you MIGHT experience transmission tailshaft failure. You know it long before it happens.

That was my point Jim. Guess I didn't spell it out clearly. I once did 153 on an unknown road, time and place, when I still had 3.55s. Thats if you can believe the GPS.

[SC Cheesehead]

To Whomever is contemplating 4:10s

Just buy the damn gears and put them in. I procrastinated and felt like a dumbass after I finally bought some and got them installed. What everyones says is true. The car should have came like this... and it does feel like 500lbs lighter.

Yup, yup, and yup! :up:

[rocky]

I put gears in mine before anything, drove for almost a year with my speedometer off about 7mph. Gears + TUNE made it WOW!


Sent from my iPhone 5

[fastblackmerc]

That was my point Jim. Guess I didn't spell it out clearly. I once did 153 on an unknown road, time and place, when I still had 3.55s. Thats if you can believe the GPS.

Nice! I've been at 120+ for a lap or so around Charlotte Motor Speedway.

[marauder21]

Ive reached 133 ONCE but ran out of road and it felt it had a little bit more...and i dont go to the triple digits alot but it is quite easy reaching 100 with these cars, whether thats a good thing or a bad thing lol

and ive finally gotten around in buying the 4.10s and now, to make up for not being able to go to Louisville:(, I'm taking the car to the shop for the installation tomorrow!! (If everything goes well) :thumbup::D:beer:

[Vortech347]

Averaged 105mph for about 90 miles last November. No problems.

[Mac-MerC]

Ive reached 133 ONCE but ran out of road and it felt it had a little bit more...and i dont go to the triple digits alot but it is quite easy reaching 100 with these cars, whether thats a good thing or a bad thing lol

and ive finally gotten around in buying the 4.10s and now, to make up for not being able to go to Louisville:(, I'm taking the car to the shop for the installation tomorrow!! (If everything goes well) :thumbup::D:beer:

U will be very happy.
The 4:10s make a DTR almost a fast as a Black with 3:55s.. that's what I've heard.

[SC Cheesehead]

U will be very happy.
The 4:10s make a DTR almost a fast as a Black with 3:55s.. that's what I've heard.

:rofl: JOCULARITY! :rofl:

[Limited360]

I really need to get a set installed by LIDIO asap!!! GEARS is the way it sounds like!

[rocky]

U will be very happy.
The 4:10s make a DTR almost a fast as a Black with 3:55s.. that's what I've heard.

Almost...


Sent from my iPhone 5

[jimbok1951]

Stock except CAI & tune (with the 410 option in the tune). Head set on getting 410 gears for awhile from all the hype on the site ( About $800.00 + installed w/carbon clutches rebuild) After hearing things no torque or HP gain, and not a track man, Why would I go for this ? Thinking now, money better spent on rear cooling mod, J mod, suspension upgrade, tires. Your thoughts are appreciated.
Thanks

[rocky]

Stock except CAI & tune (with the 410 option in the tune). Head set on getting 410 gears for awhile from all the hype on the site ( About $800.00 + installed w/carbon clutches rebuild) After hearing things no torque or HP gain, and not a track man, Why would I go for this ? Thinking now, money better spent on rear cooling mod, J mod, suspension upgrade, tires. Your thoughts are appreciated.
Thanks

You need gears
It makes your car accelerate much faster by gearing. 4.10s or 4.30s IMO is the first mod anyone should do to a MM...I have 4.10s and have never looked back and I'm sure you will not find a member on here that will say otherwise.
All mods that increase speed don't always involve HP/torque improvements...gearing and weight reduction play a large role when you drive a big ass car like ours😃


Sent from my iPhone 5

[1 Bad Merc]

Get the gears and the custom tune -when your done you will be kicking yourself for even asking these questions on MM.NET!

The difference is that dramatic.....especially the changed shift schedule -hunting for gears that used to bug the crap out of me!!!!!!

Butttt be forewarned once you start modding your MM you will not be able to stop-that's what happened to all of us :)

[marauder21]

U will be very happy.
The 4:10s make a DTR almost a fast as a Black with 3:55s.. that's what I've heard.

ALMOST..... keyword lmao :D
But hey as long as i can keep up. Im good:)