5 speed Grand Marquis rear goes boom

[SAAAAAC]

So after the CAM Marauder meet Sundy, (which was great by the way), I went home and wanted to play with my other car and I decided that I would practice launching it, in hopes to take it to the track one day. Well as the title says....:bigcry:

What do I do at this point? What do I need so this doesn't happen again? The car has a T-45 trans, 11 inch center force clutch, 8.8 rear with posi-trac 28 spline axles and 4.10s. Stock drive shaft with mustang yoke.

Check out the video and see picture below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3WaS38UDz0&list=UUUTJ4VgtK9_xOiKuVHLpXIg&index=1

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=151&pictureid=1368

[05crownsport]

Hit the deck! That's a shame...but now you can get a better one!:)

[DOOM]

Where's Biscuits!?

Sorry to hear man.

[1 Bad Merc]

For you guys with these stick cars putting a ton of power to the rearend I would look really look at putting a 9 inch rear end in. It should be bulletproof and you wont have to worry about this again. I know they are pricey ($2000-3000) but do it once and you are good to go.

[SAAAAAC]

Well that's the thing, its a stock motor with just a few bolt ons, under drives, exhaust, and cone filter. That's it!

[justbob]

Where's Biscuits!?



Present! :)

Op, now try it with 20#'s boost, twin disc, and 4.30's!

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=86476

That was done on the street with street tires, line lock off, and AFTER the clutch was up! I made it about 3' BTW granted a used set of gears, but every other single part in my 31 spline set up was brand new 5,000 miles ago..

Im still afraid to lay into it again..




Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

[SAAAAAC]

Wanna rebuild my rear for me? ;)


Present! :)

Op, now try it with 20#'s boost, twin disc, and 4.30's!

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=86476

That was done on the street with street tires, line lock off, and AFTER the clutch was up! I made it about 3' BTW granted a used set of gears, but every other single part in my 31 spline set up was brand new 5,000 miles ago..

Im still afraid to lay into it again..




Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

[justbob]

Wanna rebuild my rear for me? ;)

In not into that kinda thing. Too dirty, smelly, and dark..
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/30/my8a5a6y.jpg


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

[SAAAAAC]

:lol: I don't blame you.


In not into that kinda thing. Too dirty, smelly, and dark..
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/30/my8a5a6y.jpg


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

[RoyLPita]

Keep us posted on any progress or further pics of the carnage.

[Curless]

You don't need a 9 inch in my opinion...but you MUST use a girdled cover. I would not own a car without one...PERIOD!

[lji372]

In not into that kinda thing. Too dirty, smelly, and dark..
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/30/my8a5a6y.jpg


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

ouch in both cases.

sorry about your rear end:(

[justbob]

You don't need a 9 inch in my opinion...but you MUST use a girdled cover. I would not own a car without one...PERIOD!

DONE! And thanks for the advice on the solid spacer! DONE as well.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/30/9aduzy8y.jpg


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

[ctrlraven]

You don't need a 9 inch in my opinion...but you MUST use a girdled cover. I would not own a car without one...PERIOD!
Gridled cover AND a harden diff main cap stud kit.
http://www.brothersperformance.com/85-10-ford-88-rear-axle-main-cap-differential-stud-kit.html#.UX7j4I_vtF4

[SC Cheesehead]

ouch in both cases.

sorry about your rear end:(


Uhhhhh, TWSS????

[Marauderjack]

Problem is the Torque Converter in an automatic absorbs a BUNCH of the "torque shock" and your manual trans simply lays it all on the rear gears right away!!:eek:

Build it tougher with a girdle as stated before but still there's no guarantee you won't break it again!!:shake:

4K+ pound car takes a bunch to get it going....probably why very few are offered with manual transmissions!!:cool:

[MOTOWN]

Gridled cover AND a harden diff main cap stud kit.
http://www.brothersperformance.com/85-10-ford-88-rear-axle-main-cap-differential-stud-kit.html#.UX7j4I_vtF4

Well if your going to go that extreme!
http://www.strangeengineering.net/index.html

[Joe Walsh]

Problem is the Torque Converter in an automatic absorbs a BUNCH of the "torque shock" and your manual trans simply lays it all on the rear gears right away!!:eek:

Build it tougher with a girdle as stated before but still there's no guarantee you won't break it again!!:shake:

4K+ pound car takes a bunch to get it going....probably why very few are offered with manual transmissions!!

YEP!

The old (heavy) stick shift FORD muscle cars had 9 inch rears, which are bulletproof as another member mentioned....
Also they had crappy, skinny, easily spun, bias ply tires which were in effect, the "fuse" to prevent mechanical carnage as you've unfortunately just experienced.

A BIG +1 on the rear cover girdle and studs!

Sorry to see and HEAR the destruction....:(

[justbob]

Problem is the Torque Converter in an automatic absorbs a BUNCH of the "torque shock" and your manual trans simply lays it all on the rear gears right away!!:eek:

Build it tougher with a girdle as stated before but still there's no guarantee you won't break it again!!:shake:

4K+ pound car takes a bunch to get it going....probably why very few are offered with manual transmissions!!:cool:

Plenty of heavy cars running a manual. CTS-V, SRT/10 trucks, Challengers, MUSTANGS! (Last I checked the convertibles weighed 3950..) Camaros.

This is exactly why I picked the TR6060. Same trans that is in all them cars listed and they seem to be holding up fine. I think we need to take a look at the rear end set up in these, because they were good enough to throw a warranty at them.

I knew I would have some bugs to sort out, so far very few. I wasn't surprised whatsoever when my rear imploded. I have already started putting a lil sum sumtin away each week in case this is needed...

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/30/ryqeny3e.jpg


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

[Vortech347]

Problem is the Manual trans shocks the rear end. It doesn't get the nice smooth power from a TQ converter.

http://www.streetfire.net/video/01-cobra-halfshaft-break_738800.htm

This might make you feel a little better. First burnout I didn't have enough RPM. I snapped the clutch from around 6000 planning to do a brake stand into 2nd then a 1/2 parklot burnout. I made it a foot. This was done 460 miles from home. The wife was PISSED as this was her daily driver at the time.

[71cyclone]

Well that's the thing, its a stock motor with just a few bolt ons, under drives, exhaust, and cone filter. That's it!

:mad2: Sorry to see this Cousin !!!! See If you can locate the Silver Surfer [Save more auto parts in Fort Washington }:beatnik:

[SAAAAAC]

I'm still depressed about this.... Great info I'm reading so far guys. Thanks for all the info. I'm willing to dump the money into a 9 inch rear if its really needed. I plan on doing more to the car down the road motor wise. So why not get a bullet proof rear right? But I still don't think I should have to go to a 9 inch rear....

[SAAAAAC]

I know right!!! Grrrr. We were just talking about the car last week! And I was just talking to SilverSurfer at the meet. He said call him if I need anything ;)! A call might be in order.


:mad2: Sorry to see this Cousin !!!! See If you can locate the Silver Surfer [Save more auto parts in Fort Washington }:beatnik:

[Mebot]

dang saaaac just meeting you for the first time on Sunday & now this happens?! I hope this isn't karma or something!

sorry to hear about this but like most folks have said at least the silver lining is you can rebuild it better & stronger than before!

sent from space

[SAAAAAC]

I hope its not bad karma! Nice meeting you too.



dang saaaac just meeting you for the first time on Sunday & now this happens?! I hope this isn't karma or something!

sorry to hear about this but like most folks have said at least the silver lining is you can rebuild it better & stronger than before!

sent from space

[SAAAAAC]

Which rear would would we pick for a panther? Looking at the site, I only see mustangs listed.


Plenty of heavy cars running a manual. CTS-V, SRT/10 trucks, Challengers, MUSTANGS! (Last I checked the convertibles weighed 3950..) Camaros.

This is exactly why I picked the TR6060. Same trans that is in all them cars listed and they seem to be holding up fine. I think we need to take a look at the rear end set up in these, because they were good enough to throw a warranty at them.

I knew I would have some bugs to sort out, so far very few. I wasn't surprised whatsoever when my rear imploded. I have already started putting a lil sum sumtin away each week in case this is needed...

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/30/ryqeny3e.jpg


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

[justbob]

Which rear would would we pick for a panther? Looking at the site, I only see mustangs listed.

Special order Bubs, just like anything else for these.. I was going to call them in the near future and see what all they need for measurements. Also I wanted to see if they could supply the bracketry for us as well or just a cut down unit and we do the geometry?


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

[SAAAAAC]

I would assume that this would be too heavy for me since I'm not pushing too much power. And I really doubt I would push as much as what you're pushing ever. But I would be interested seeing what it would cost. If you find out what measurements are needed, let me know. :burnout:

I'm thinking I would do a beefier 31 spline trac-loc with 31 spline axles and girdled cover. I'm still not even sure what I destroyed. I'm willing to bet I'll have to replace everything in there though.


Special order Bubs, just like anything else for these.. I was going to call them in the near future and see what all they need for measurements. Also I wanted to see if they could supply the bracketry for us as well or just a cut down unit and we do the geometry?


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

[Vortech347]

When anything breaks in a rear end its best to gut everything. Especially if it was a hardened part that broke. Tends to shatter like glass. Who knows maybe you got lucky and just killed an axle and the gears are fine. You could run a 3.73' gear set if you did infact kill the gears. They have more beef to them than 4.10's and with the short 1st gear ratio of a T-45/3650 you should still have excellent off the line punch.

[SAAAAAC]

Interesting. I'll keep that in mind. I do love those 4.10s though.


When anything breaks in a rear end its best to gut everything. Especially if it was a hardened part that broke. Tends to shatter like glass. Who knows maybe you got lucky and just killed an axle and the gears are fine. You could run a 3.73' gear set if you did infact kill the gears. They have more beef to them than 4.10's and with the short 1st gear ratio of a T-45/3650 you should still have excellent off the line punch.

[yjmud]

that is why I put the girdle on from the get go and the solid spacer
shouldn't need a nine inch unless you just want to spend money to say you have an nine inch

[MOTOWN]

that is why I put the girdle on from the get go and the solid spacer
shouldn't need a nine inch unless you just want to spend money to say you have an nine inch

Agreed!:beer:

[justbob]

that is why I put the girdle on from the get go and the solid spacer
shouldn't need a nine inch unless you just want to spend money to say you have an nine inch

Lets hope.. Work has picked up BIG time said the boss man. When I feel more comfortable financially, there is going to be some testing to that theory.. I hope you are right! I think Melanie might actually have a divorce attorney on retainer AND speed dial....!


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

[SAAAAAC]

Do you have a link to this so called solid spacer? I'm not so sure I know what that is.

Thanks


that is why I put the girdle on from the get go and the solid spacer
shouldn't need a nine inch unless you just want to spend money to say you have an nine inch

[71cyclone]

Interesting. I'll keep that in mind. I do love those 4.10s though.

Keep in Mind that on the Marauder' time slips' Most of the carz on the first 4 pages have 4:10 gearz [Go Figure,-Not Smoke and Mirrors ,but real "BURN OUTs":burnout::burnout:::

[justbob]

Do you have a link to this so called solid spacer? I'm not so sure I know what that is.

Thanks

Here's the one I just installed.
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/rat-4105


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

[SAAAAAC]

Ahhh I see. Thank you for the link.


Here's the one I just installed.
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/rat-4105


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

[69ranchero351c]

I'm surprised the rear went first. I was expecting the trans to be the first weak link. Good to see she's still goin and gettin run like it was meant to.

[SAAAAAC]

Well....

I did break 1 axle, remember that?

And I also broke, 2 tail-shaft housings... And 5th gear and the syncros were messed up then, so had that all fixed up.

And now the rear.

I would love to get this car solid. I Definitely love it :burnout:

Did you ever take it to the track? If so what did it run? And when you had it dyno'd, what numbers was it pushing?


I'm surprised the rear went first. I was expecting the trans to be the first weak link. Good to see she's still goin and gettin run like it was meant to.

[burt ragio]

But it say used for ford 7.5 & 9" . Isn't the marauder a 8.8 ?



Here's the one I just installed.
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/rat-4105


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

[justbob]

But it say used for ford 7.5 & 9" . Isn't the marauder a 8.8 ?

Yes. Check the link again. This time look at the applications.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

[SAAAAAC]

Do you think that I could get an entire rear from a junk yard that would already have 31 spline axles, 31 spline trac-lock and 3.55 gears from a newer CVPI? I know most of the newer models had this (2003 +) but they won't fit right? I would probably need a rear from a 2002 CVPI or lower right? And if i'm mistaken they didn't have posi with 31 splines < 2002. Can anyone confirm ? I could potentially get a killer deal on an entire used rear.

[Vortech347]

Did you open the dif yet?

[SAAAAAC]

No I didn't.



Did you open the dif yet?

[SAAAAAC]

Finally opened up the rear :depress:

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=151&pictureid=1372

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=151&pictureid=1371

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=151&pictureid=1374

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=151&pictureid=1373

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=151&pictureid=1375

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=151&pictureid=1377

[SAAAAAC]

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=151&pictureid=1378

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=151&pictureid=1379

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=151&pictureid=1381

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=151&pictureid=1384

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=151&pictureid=1383

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=151&pictureid=1385

[Krytin]

Looks like it spit the pinion shaft out (the big tear in the cover is the give-away). Either the carier itself failed/split or the pinion shaft retaining bolt broke.

Did they use a new retaining bolt or did they re-use the old one the last time the rear was apart?
The retaining bolt is a week link if re-used too often or sometimes at all.

[SAAAAAC]

Most likely reused the retaining bolt


Looks like it spit the pinion shaft out (the big tear in the cover is the give-away). Either the carier itself failed/split or the pinion shaft retaining bolt broke.

Did they use a new retaining bolt or did they re-use the old one the last time the rear was apart?
The retaining bolt is a week link if re-used too often or sometimes at all.

[RoyLPita]

Clutches and c-clips can be reused.

[SAAAAAC]

Ok so need some opinions. Option A) I called Moser, and they will build me a 9 inch rear for 2640 shipped. Again I'm pushing stock power so I don't think its needed. Option B) Moser will sell me all internals and axles for 1500 for my 8.8. Or Option C) I can buy all my parts from adtr.net and moser axles for around 1700 and that will include upper and lower control arms. I'm thinking option C. I'm so anxious to get this done. Any advice out there?

[Krytin]

I vote "C".

[Vortech347]

It sounds like a fluke/install error I would just throw a set of moser 31 spine axles and an Cobra carrier with Cobra clutch packs and call it good.

[1 Bad Merc]

Your putting some huge forces on that rearend with the heavy car and five speed. I would personally due the 9" inch. You know then that you are covered and wont have to worry about this issue again.

I know me and I cant leave anything alone for long so I would end up upgrading the car and going for more power. If that is you also then why mess around just go for the 9" and be done with it. If you blow up another rearend you will be money behind what it would have cost you for the 9" to begin with.

I like insurance and to me the 9" will be the cheapest option for you in the long run. Just an FYI -I have heard of someone breaking a 31 spline moser axle in a marauder before....it was defective but it still cost time and money to fix it.

Just my .02 -good luck.

[Blown3.8]

Looks like the diff came apart. We have broken the stock diff too. You should be good with a good diff and some 31 splines. We launch hard enough to trip the inertia switch.:cool: 1.4x 60's with a best of 1.41 at a 4200lb race weight. We don't even have a girdle, just the stock cover. Hope I didn't just jinx us.

But wheel hop can break anything.;)

[ctrlraven]

A bearing cap stud kit is cheap insurance
http://www.excessiveracing.com/ta-1816.aspx

Moser makes a kit as well
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/M4034A/Mustang-88-Moser-Rear-Differential-Bearing-Cap-Stud-Kit

[SAAAAAC]

Yup. Planned on getting the stud kit.


A bearing cap stud kit is cheap insurance
http://www.excessiveracing.com/ta-1816.aspx

Moser makes a kit as well
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/M4034A/Mustang-88-Moser-Rear-Differential-Bearing-Cap-Stud-Kit

[yjmud]

go with the detroit tru trac it is a very nice diff

[SAAAAAC]

That's what I heard. That's part of option C.



go with the detroit tru trac it is a very nice diff

[ctrlraven]

go with the detroit tru trac it is a very nice diff
Do you get paid to promote Detroit tru trac cause I think 9 out of every 10 posts you put up is about the Detroit unit? :lol:

[yjmud]

no but damn it is very nice indeed

[GreekGod]

Nobody, including Moser, makes a 9" banjo housing for our chassis/platform.

[SAAAAAC]

Parts ordered. Here is the list. I still have to call Moser to fabricate my axles. Next step is to put it all together... I might actually buy another used rear. We shall see....


Ford Racing Master Rebuild Kit
Ford Racing 4.10 gears
Ford Racing Girdle
Detroit 31 spline Tru-Trac
Metco Upper and Lower Control Arms
Main Cap Stud Kit
Solid Spacer Ratech 4105 - Ratech Pinion Bearing Spacers

[Curless]

Parts ordered. Here is the list. I still have to call Moser to fabricate my axles. Next step is to put it all together... I might actually buy another used rear. We shall see....


Ford Racing Master Rebuild Kit
Ford Racing 4.10 gears
Ford Racing Girdle
Detroit 31 spline Tru-Trac
Metco Upper and Lower Control Arms
Main Cap Stud Kit
Solid Spacer Ratech 4105 - Ratech Pinion Bearing Spacers


AWESOME!!!! This thing should be bullet proof!:beer:

[justbob]

AWESOME!!!! This thing should be bullet proof!:beer:

Give me the keys... :D I break everything!


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[SAAAAAC]

hahahaha. I dunno justbob. I'm pretty good at breaking stuff myself.


Give me the keys... :D I break everything!


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[SAAAAAC]

Hey guys, would my passenger and driver side axles have the same measurements? I have an extra axle laying here in the garage but unfortunately im in a situation where I won't be able to measure the ones on the car.

[SAAAAAC]

Or would anyone know of or have the measurements of the axles on a 99 grand marquis?

[GreekGod]

Or would anyone know of or have the measurements of the axles on a 99 grand marquis?
Try Rock Auto for dimensions.

==============

[SAAAAAC]

I just wanted to give a big shout out to Chris (Bulldog5.0 on MM.NET) and Chris (GroundPounder on CVN) for putting my rear back together. This post was long over due. Great guys, great mechanics. Thanks again guys!!! I really appreciate it.

:beer::burn: