Ford sued over alleged 3.5-liter EcoBoost defects

[ctrlraven]

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/05/16/ford-sued-over-alleged-3-5-liter-ecoboost-defects/


Three Ford owners from Ohio have filed a lawsuit against the automaker over defects that they allege exist within the company's twin-turbocharged 3.5-liter V6 EcoBoost engine. Automotive News reports that the lawsuit claims the engine "contained serious latent design, manufacturing, or assembly defects." Those defects, the suit claims, cause the vehicle to shake, misfire and lose power quickly.

Two of the plaintiffs, a married couple, own a 2010 Ford Taurus SHO, and allege they experienced a loss of power and stalling, while the third, an F-150 owner, claims he lost power while accelerating. In addition to the Taurus SHO and F-150, the 3.5-liter V6 EcoBoost engine is also available in the Ford Flex, Explorer Sport and Lincoln MKT and MKS. Other three- and four-cylinder EcoBoost engines are not included in the suit. There have been no recalls associated with 3.5-liter V6 engine, and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is currently not investigating the matter.

The plaintiffs, however, claim Ford has known about the problem, citing several technical service bulletins issued to dealers of the F-150 that suggest possible fixes. Ford had no comment for Automotive News, saying that it's yet to review the lawsuit, which was filed last Friday in Columbus, OH.

[lji372]

i had heard through the grapevine for a over a year that there would be issues with the eco-boost.

i would not walk but RUN away from unproven technology.

no brand new pos cars from ANY automaker will ever be in my future.

just my .02 on all thoughts including but not limited to all current previous or future thoughts. no warranty is stated or implied that my thoughts are deemed accurate. if in the event my thoughts are deemed accurate than add an "i told you so":lol:

[SpartaPerformance]

What's unproven technology? Both turbo charging and direct injection have been around for decades. My mom has a 3.5L Ecoboost car it has 48,000 miles. I highly doubt there is a design flaw based on 3 people, unless you work in auto repair retail you don't realize how extremely little people know about cars then add in the bad advise from "mechanics" that I wouldn't let inflate my tires, give them and the lack of knowledge gets worse.

[Mebot]

Ford Fusion throttle body was replaced on wife's 2010. Luckily it was under warranty but still .

sent from space

[RF Overlord]

^^^what Tommy said^^^

"serious latent design, manufacturing, or assembly defects."???

Because of 3 people?! with 2 cars??!!

America: Land of the Stupid and Greedy

[tbone]

Serious latent design, manufacturing or assembly defects.

I know a lot of people that fall into this category.:shake:

[Curless]

There is WAAAAY more than three people...the trucks WILL NOT do what they claim. I have more than one friend with 2012 and 2013 F-150 Eco Boosts that are pissed. I LOVE Turbos and direct injection, but if you think a tiny little V-6 is gonna yank a toy hauler down the road at 70MPH in a 25 MPH head wind you are nuts. The eco boost works great around town for "light" duty or "yuppie" truck driving, to say its a truck to me is grossly misleading. Just MHO....oh and this info is coming from our local Ford dealership...which would be FOX Ford, who if you are in the know, just built the largest Ford dealership in the country over in Chi Town...

[lji372]

What's unproven technology? Both turbo charging and direct injection have been around for decades. My mom has a 3.5L Ecoboost car it has 48,000 miles. I highly doubt there is a design flaw based on 3 people, unless you work in auto repair retail you don't realize how extremely little people know about cars then add in the bad advise from "mechanics" that I wouldn't let inflate my tires, give them and the lack of knowledge gets worse.

note my disclaimer
it was put there for the naysayers

like the big auto companies it's there for me to hide behind:flamer:

just my .02 on all thoughts including but not limited to all current previous or future thoughts. no warranty is stated or implied that my thoughts are deemed accurate. if in the event my thoughts are deemed accurate than add an "i told you so"

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/05/16/ford-ecoboost-engine-problems/2168865/

from the fourth paragraph
Ford won't discuss the lawsuit, but the symptoms it cites — stalling and power loss — match complaints that Ford addressed last year in a bulletin to dealers, and by making a running change on the assembly line.


a running change on the assembly line?? sounds like proven technology to me:lol:

[babbage]

There is WAAAAY more than three people...the trucks WILL NOT do what they claim. I have more than one friend with 2012 and 2013 F-150 Eco Boosts that are pissed. I LOVE Turbos and direct injection, but if you think a tiny little V-6 is gonna yank a toy hauler down the road at 70MPH in a 25 MPH head wind you are nuts..

For that you need to press O/D cancel.. ;)



The Davis Dam test used a 2011 Ford F-150 XLT. It was joined by a Chevy Silverado 1500 with a 5.3-liter Vortec V-8 and a Ram 1500 with a 5.7-liter Hemi V-8. Each crew-cab truck towed a 9,000-pound trailer up the grade.
Davis Dam, which has a 5 percent average grade, is one of the toughest grades in the U.S. The Society of Automotive Engineers and a cooperative group of truck manufacturers chose it as the climb site to create standardized tow rating tests (http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/stories/saetowing/page1.html) for new pickups by 2013.
Ford measured how long it took the trucks to perform in two tests: The first challenge was a zero-to-60 mph test, and the second was time over 3.5 miles of the grade, which is about 12 miles long.
http://blogs.cars.com/.a/6a00d83451b3c669e20148c6995e65 970c-800wi
In both tests, run at wide open throttle, Ford’s EcoBoost V-6 beat the Chevy and Ram V-8s.

[guspech750]

Its Way more than just a few people. Go on some of the other car and truck forums. Lots of people having lots of issues with the Ecoboost motors, trans and intercoolers filling up with solid gunk along with water and oil being found in them.



Sent from my iPhone 4S

DTR + 4.10's + Eaton swap = Wreeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom

[lji372]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBuqOViOnDE

it does seem impressive but i'm still not buying it

[ctrlraven]

Yes there are way more than just a few people. The Taurus forum has quite a lot of people with issues the SHO (regarding the engine) and non-SHO Taurus cars with transmission and light engine issues.

[guspech750]

Another example.

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=554070

I was impressed with its power. But I would never have bought a pickup with one of these. Give me a more less techy V-8 motor.


Sent from my iPhone 4S

DTR + 4.10's + Eaton swap = Wreeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom

[Mebot]

There is also issue with 2010 - 2012 Ford Fusion and the Throttle Body. part like that shouldn't fail after only 30 or 40 thousand miles

[Curless]

Here's the deal, on the short run...the eco boost hauls the mail! Hands down, awesome acceleration mileage etc, but pulling a load, working like a $55,000 truck should work, they can't keep up the pace. Those little turbos are not designed to run wide open 24 /7 they can't do it. Bigger displacement, bigger turbos, lower boost = longer life better, efficiency...

By the way, with no GM discount, and 1st time buyers money, $50,000 OTD at our local Chevy dealer, 2013 3/4 ton, Duramax, 4 door, lt trim...I am NOT saying Chevy is better than Ford, I am saying that when you want a truck (real,workable truck) for this money, the Chevy is a way better deal.

[RF Overlord]

I stand by my comment that most Americans are stupid and greedy. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING is someone ELSE's fault.

In the context of the Eco-boost, perhaps I'm outta line, but most Americans don't know how to drive a turbo, either. People familiar with OTR trucks do, but most don't realise that you can't drive 100 MPH for 6 hours dragging a max load, exit the highway into Denny's parking lot and immediately shut down the motor. They never RTFM, but they cry "foul" when the poor thing finally breaks.

[Limited360]

Here's the deal, on the short run...the eco boost hauls the mail! Hands down, awesome acceleration mileage etc, but pulling a load, working like a $55,000 truck should work, they can't keep up the pace. Those little turbos are not designed to run wide open 24 /7 they can't do it. Bigger displacement, bigger turbos, lower boost = longer life better, efficiency...

By the way, with no GM discount, and 1st time buyers money, $50,000 OTD at our local Chevy dealer, 2013 3/4 ton, Duramax, 4 door, lt trim...I am NOT saying Chevy is better than Ford, I am saying that when you want a truck (real,workable truck) for this money, the Chevy is a way better deal.


You are hitting the nail on the head here...

The main issue I see with down sized boosted motors is this... People are going to drive these cars /trucks hard, not like fuel economy engines that they are. However like the boosted powerful engine they were sold on during the purchase!!!

These engines were not designed to operate at PEAK incylinder pressures like they are seeing, else there would need to be significantly stronger materials used (like a diesel).

I have said all along that the Taurus and other platforms might get away with it, however putting these engines in a truck that will run max boost levels (ie. highest possible in cyclinder pressures) while towing will destroy the motor...

Also I can attest that its not just a 1 or 2 person situation...

Just my .02 and also from my experiences in the industry for ten years. Great idea in theory, practice is another...

[Limited360]

I stand by my comment that most Americans are stupid and greedy. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING is someone ELSE's fault.

In the context of the Eco-boost, perhaps I'm outta line, but most Americans don't know how to drive a turbo, either. People familiar with OTR trucks do, but most don't realise that you can't drive 100 MPH for 6 hours dragging a max load, exit the highway into Denny's parking lot and immediately shut down the motor. They never RTFM, but they cry "foul" when the poor thing finally breaks.


The whole running it hard and shutting it off is not such a huge issues these days with the turbos that run both oil and coolant for cooling. I am not saying it never happens or it doesnt hurt it... Its just not such an issue as 10 years ago.

However you are correct, people don't understand how to use a boosted GASOLINE engine for effiecency, they only see it for its power!

[Motorhead350]

I have no problem with eco-boost... oh wait I don't use it.

I will keep it that way. V8s for life.

[RF Overlord]

Here's the turbo for Dom's next car:

http://wordlesstech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Giant-Snow-Blower-Train-3.jpg

[Motorhead350]

LOL you never know Bob.

I saw a documentary years ago about a tour on a train with different bands. Janis Joplin, Buddy Guy and a few others. I could use a Turbo like that someday!

[RF Overlord]

people don't understand how to use a boosted GASOLINE engine for effiecency, they only see it for its power!Right.

Please don't everyone get me wrong: I've said for years that using small highly-stressed motors to make big power while trying to achieve unreasonable fuel economy mandates is a recipe for FAIL.

Put a 3.5L V6 twin-turbo in a Ford Ranger and let boy racers whiz around the streets like bosses is fine...put that same motor in a King Ranch and expect it to haul a goose-neck with two 1,200-pound animals and their gear all day long...not so fine.

[Vortech347]

Did no one here watch the Ecoboost challenge videos? I have a friend that picked up an F-150 and he is BRUTAL to it. If it doesn't have a trailer on it he's driving like he stole it. No problems yet after 50k.

[SpartaPerformance]

I don't put too much faith in internet naysayers, even if you find 1,500 complainers vs the 200,000 units sold of any vehicle regardless of manufacturer its a drop in the bucket that falls under laws of mass production.

[gdmjoe]

SpartaPerformance, RF Overlord, and other naysayers ...
It is FAR from 2-3 individuals that are experiencing problems.

Just from hanging-out on the F-150 forums there is a HUGE ground-swell of buyers that encountered NUMEROUS (somethings dangerous) issues. Over the past 2-3 years Ford has been attempting to address these issues, however, IMO a lot more needs to be done. There are already a number of TSBs that attempt to address the problems, however, a silver bullet has yet to be found.

Issues include (though are not limited to) moisture build-up in the I/C
POOR gas mileage *FAR BELOW the advertised EPA.
sudden loss of power and/or hesitation.
inexplicable limp-mode operation that it doesn't/can't recover from.
etc., etc., etc., etc..When a 6000Lb vehicle pulling (say) an additional SEVERAL thousand Lb load pulls-out into traffic and stalls, I'd say it's serious.

BTW ... A number of the F-150 forum crowd have given-up on their EcoBoosts and FoMoCo's fix attempts and traded-in for the 5.0L.
.

[gdmjoe]

SpartaPerformance - I don't put too much faith in internet naysayers, even if you find 1,500 complainers vs the 200,000 units sold of any vehicle regardless of manufacturer its a drop in the bucket that falls under laws of mass production.
If you owned one and FoMoCo had attempted to fix it SEVERAL times over the past 3 years would that be acceptable to you?

And ... In your opinion would it then be an acceptable ratio?
.

[guspech750]

If you owned one and FoMoCo had attempted to fix it SEVERAL times over the past 3 years would that be acceptable to you?

And ... In your opinion would it then be an acceptable ratio?
.

Fk no!!


Sent from my iPhone 4S

DTR + 4.10's + Eaton swap = Wreeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom

[Green96]

I guess I will see how it goes. I only have 2K on it, but so far I am getting every bit of the mileage I expected and it is still improving. I just finished the tow bar set-up and did a test pull of the trailer. 6500 lbs travel trailer and it pulled great. Before I got it I had heard of some problems with the intercoolers in 2012 and older models. I might regret saying this, but am not worried.

[Curless]

I guess I will see how it goes. I only have 2K on it, but so far I am getting every bit of the mileage I expected and it is still improving. I just finished the tow bar set-up and did a test pull of the trailer. 6500 lbs travel trailer and it pulled great. Before I got it I had heard of some problems with the intercoolers in 2012 and older models. I might regret saying this, but am not worried.


Pull that trailer down the highway for 600 miles in the middle of summer when its over 80 degrees out...there will be an issue.

[Limited360]

Pull that trailer down the highway for 600 miles in the middle of summer when its over 80 degrees out...there will be an issue.

+1 on this.

[L.Mark]

Wow!!! This reminds me of the 4-6-8 Cadillac motors...:shake:

[Marauderman]

What's unproven technology? Both turbo charging and direct injection have been around for decades. My mom has a 3.5L Ecoboost car it has 48,000 miles. I highly doubt there is a design flaw based on 3 people, unless you work in auto repair retail you don't realize how extremely little people know about cars then add in the bad advise from "mechanics" that I wouldn't let inflate my tires, give them and the lack of knowledge gets worse.


^^^what Tommy said^^^

"serious latent design, manufacturing, or assembly defects."???

Because of 3 people?! with 2 cars??!!

America: Land of the Stupid and Greedy


There is WAAAAY more than three people...the trucks WILL NOT do what they claim. I have more than one friend with 2012 and 2013 F-150 Eco Boosts that are pissed. I LOVE Turbos and direct injection, but if you think a tiny little V-6 is gonna yank a toy hauler down the road at 70MPH in a 25 MPH head wind you are nuts. The eco boost works great around town for "light" duty or "yuppie" truck driving, to say its a truck to me is grossly misleading. Just MHO....oh and this info is coming from our local Ford dealership...which would be FOX Ford, who if you are in the know, just built the largest Ford dealership in the country over in Chi Town...


Right.

Please don't everyone get me wrong: I've said for years that using small highly-stressed motors to make big power while trying to achieve unreasonable fuel economy mandates is a recipe for FAIL.

Put a 3.5L V6 twin-turbo in a Ford Ranger and let boy racers whiz around the streets like bosses is fine...put that same motor in a King Ranch and expect it to haul a goose-neck with two 1,200-pound animals and their gear all day long...not so fine.


Did no one here watch the Ecoboost challenge videos? I have a friend that picked up an F-150 and he is BRUTAL to it. If it doesn't have a trailer on it he's driving like he stole it. No problems yet after 50k.

Well, I have a new late model (April 16 2012 build date 2012 F-150 King Ranch with the EB and am quite satisfied so far --Have pulled the MM several times and other cars---but if these problems should pop up --will address them and see where it goes--but for now--none have---supposedly Ford put a lot od R&D into the EB supposedly trying to kill it with everything it could do to it and it is said to have passed--so production of them was initiated.....what I heard anyway---true--???---for the mean time I am a current owner with out any problems............

[JBFTech]

Its all in how you drive it, and how well you do your homework. The people that I see complaining of their eco boost F150 fall in one of 2 categories. 1) They don't know how to f*****g drive. 2) They have a legitimate concern. I get these trucks in all the time at work, and it always goes one of the above directions. Poor fuel mileage complaints - I reset the fuel economy gauge, hook up IDS and run a fuel economy test and go on a test drive, every time I get back to the shop with 27+ AVG MPG. The reason? I drive it normally, and prove that they are beating the piss out of it. On the other hand, 99% of the average customers do NOT know how automakers come up with MPG figures, they do not understand that those numbers on the sticker did not come from real world driving at all, and the HWY estimate was NOT figured at 75MPH. I will find the paper I have on the actual test procedures if anyone is interested. Now for number 2) Yes, there is an issue with hesitation, stumble, and misfire, on HARD ACCELERATION after a full-load highway run in damp humid conditions. I do see these quite often, and replacing the charge air cooler, new cooler shield, and update the PCM does take care of them for the most part. I will note, that Ford has now decided that the latest TSB may not fix all, and is working on a new fix for those. Other than that, I don't get any other complaints in on the Eco boost F150, other than one guy who hates his because it "sounds like a lawn mower" in his words. If you do a lot of heavy towing and hard driving, and beat the crap out of your truck, skip the eco boost. I do believe they are decent, however, I wouldn't buy one. I've gotta have a V8, to me a V6 just ain't right, boosted or not! Also, the only problems I see with the SHO are a couple that had fuel injectors bad, but those were early models.

[boatmangc]

My 2012 F150 EB has 18000 miles on it now and Most of the miles were highway miles. 75-85 MPH on average. At those speeds I pull 20-21 MPG.
I average 23-24 MPG in normal local driving.
I have been hauling tools, furniture etc although I haul what I carry in the bed and backseat and I use a fiberglass tonneau cover.
I have read about the hesitation issue on the forums too. I have on several different occasions tried to get it to happen when road conditions permitted, just so I could see what it felt like and be prepared for it if it happened when I needed the power.
I couldn't get it to hiccup. Just a very quick blast from 65-100.

I didn't buy the truck to tow big loads down the highway for long trips, that's why God gave us diesels.

I have towed several boats in the 23-34' sizes with no issues so far on short trips, the truck doesn't leave me wanting more power.

But with all the news I will be buying the extended warranty on this one.

[Green96]

http://www.full-race.com/articles/what-is-ecoboost.html

[Joe Walsh]

Here's the deal, on the short run...the eco boost hauls the mail! Hands down, awesome acceleration mileage etc, but pulling a load, working like a $55,000 truck should work, they can't keep up the pace. Those little turbos are not designed to run wide open 24 /7 they can't do it. Bigger displacement, bigger turbos, lower boost = longer life better, efficiency...

By the way, with no GM discount, and 1st time buyers money, $50,000 OTD at our local Chevy dealer, 2013 3/4 ton, Duramax, 4 door, lt trim...I am NOT saying Chevy is better than Ford, I am saying that when you want a truck (real,workable truck) for this money, the Chevy is a way better deal.

Yeah.....But.....It's a Chevy......:puke:

[Rick-n-Miami]

I've had a 2010 Lincoln MKT with EcoBoost for over 3 years now. During the first month, I had a throttlebody failure that resulted in an immediate loss of power and the car going into "limp home mode." Once this issue was resolved, it's been great! I have never hauled anything with it, but it has been very reliable and produces quite a bit of power. My lease is up this summer and I will be buying another.

[Marauderman]

My 2012 F150 EB has 18000 miles on it now and Most of the miles were highway miles. 75-85 MPH on average. At those speeds I pull 20-21 MPG.
I average 23-24 MPG in normal local driving.
I have been hauling tools, furniture etc although I haul what I carry in the bed and backseat and I use a fiberglass tonneau cover.
I have read about the hesitation issue on the forums too. I have on several different occasions tried to get it to happen when road conditions permitted, just so I could see what it felt like and be prepared for it if it happened when I needed the power.
I couldn't get it to hiccup. Just a very quick blast from 65-100.

I didn't buy the truck to tow big loads down the highway for long trips, that's why God gave us diesels.

I have towed several boats in the 23-34' sizes with no issues so far on short trips, the truck doesn't leave me wanting more power.

But with all the news I will be buying the extended warranty on this one.

I too added extended warranty out the gate with mine --mainly I felt cause of the computers this thing has-------at the moment --am good for first 7 years.........

[babbage]

Do you guys think its just because people that have these problems don't floor the piss out of it once in a while (to get all moisture out) etc? aka Italian tune up? lol

[gpfarrell]

Ecoboost? That will never last!

Neither will these new-fangled engines that are computer controlled!

Aluminum in my V8? No way, it will all warp.

Give me cast iron and 4-barrel carbs!


Right.

My Ecoboost Lincoln MKS ran 12.9 @ 104 last week.

Don't spend your money and whine about the future. I'll enjoy mine.

[SC Cheesehead]

Yeah.....But.....It's a Chevy......:puke:

http://www.thechicagogarage.com/forum/images/smilies/werd.gif