Timing Chain Tensioner Arms Worn?

[03sport007]

I've been contemplating selling my Marauder lately but before I did I have small list of issues that needed to be addressed. Unfortunately none of them are very fun but possibly selling the car was all the motivation I needed to get started.

Besides it always bothered me when someone selling a car says something like, by the way it needs this and this but those are easy fixes. I always wonder if they were so easy why didn't they fix them?

When I bought the car every now and then I would get some timing chain noise on cold start. After doing a little research on this site and at Mach 1 Registry I learned it’s somewhat normal. So I tried not to let it bother me.

Fast forward 3 years later and I couldn't help but notice it was getting a little more frequent. Instead of once a month it was happining maybe once a week. I didn't want someone having the same reaction I did after bringing their new Marauder home and saying "What the Heck" was that?

So this weekend I dove in with both hands. I found that one of the tensioners was a little weak. But what surprised me was the tensioner arms. Its hard to tell from the pics but the plastic was almost worn through. I was surprised because the engine only has 79k on it and has seen regular maintenance. If there were brake pads I’d say there were at 10 percent. Crazy.

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j414/03sport007/photo-57.jpg (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/03sport007/media/photo-57.jpg.html)

New Parts Installed

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j414/03sport007/photo-58.jpg (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/03sport007/media/photo-58.jpg.html)

[kingace]

I've had mine for a few years now and mine does it about 2-3 times a week! I don't have the hands or the know how to fix this, how much would a shop charge me?

[bill64]

my lower back is hurting just looking at thes pics! My marauder raps for a few seconds when I start it (all it has to do is sit overnight and the next day it will rap). mine sounds like a bottem end dry start but I use the motorcraft oil filter, curious if what I am hearing is the timing chain's, simular sound?. my car has almost 65k miles, hmmm

[burt ragio]

Great pics how long did the job take ?
Did you pre buy needed parts ?

[RacerX]

This is very interesting. The arms I took out after I swapped out my 140k+ original engine had less than 1/4 of the plastic gone. Enough left that I reused them. May depend on type of oil, oil change intervals, tensioner and chain slack, etc. Did you have iron or plastic tensioners?

[Jeffonebuck]

This is an idea that I was thinking about, especially with the 4V heads. Has anyone else looked into this. http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=287925

[RacerX]

There's a few Marauders around here that have such oiling systems already. It's a very good idea. With $$$, you can do anything...;)

[Jeffonebuck]

There's a few Marauders around here that have such oiling systems already. It's a very good idea. With $$$, you can do anything...;)

This idea with the ECU caught my eye: "A better system might be to incorporate a starting protocol into the ECU that delays start up until the oil has reached all bearings....."

The Toyota Prius does that...

Ignition and fuel is not applied until oil pressure is up..

And, there is sufficient range in the variable valve timing to delay closing of the intake valve to the point of serving as a compression release during the initial spin up of the engine.

[03sport007]

Great pics how long did the job take ?
Did you pre buy needed parts ?

Not done yet, just trying to knock out a little every night. It wasn't that difficult to date just very time consuming. I'm replacing all the idlers and water pump because I don't want to do this again.

I've been buying all my parts online from Tousley Ford. Cheaper then my local Ford Dealership. So that's been adding time to the project also.

I'll update this thread when I'm done and give you my final thought.

[03sport007]

This is very interesting. The arms I took out after I swapped out my 140k+ original engine had less than 1/4 of the plastic gone. Enough left that I reused them. May depend on type of oil, oil change intervals, tensioner and chain slack, etc. Did you have iron or plastic tensioners?

The plastic tensioners were in the vehicle. Not sure what caused the pre-mature wear...I read on CrownVic.net and another Ford Forum that I cant remember that there was a quality issue with some of the tensioner arms that ford used in the 2002-2003 time frame. A lot of guys that worked on police cars saying it wasn't uncommon for the plastic on the arms to break around the 70k mark.

I'm the 3rd owner and have used Mobil 1 every 3-3500 miles for the last 30K. The 2nd owner had it for about 20k and he used Ford's Semi synthetic 5w-20w. He bought from a dealer so know way to know about the 1st 30k maintenance history.

[a_d_a_m]

Timing tensioners should not be an issue on the '04 and later cars as far as I'm aware. The TSB for the timing guides on 4.6L engines was for 2000-2003.

I'm surprised that the O/P had startup noise. Those really don't look THAT bad. Mine were worse when I yanked the head at 106k to replace the #8 valve seat and I never had startup noise beyond the starter clicking once in awhile.

[ctrlraven]

I wonder what mine will look like with 200+k miles on them after I pull my motor.

[VMARAUDER]

I had my timing chains, guides and tensioner replaced at 215k on my 2001 Town Car. The guides were completely gone and the tensioners were being ground away. Job cost me 750.00 including parts but I had estimates up to 1200.00
Keep The MARAUDER

[babbage]

Do you really have to use a pulley tool to remove the power steering pump wheel - in order to get front cover off?

[JimmyXR7]

I had my timing chains, guides and tensioner replaced at 215k on my 2001 Town Car. The guides were completely gone and the tensioners were being ground away. Job cost me 750.00 including parts but I had estimates up to 1200.00
Keep The MARAUDER
Some oil additives will help the oil cling to parts and not drain down overnight.
What brand of oil did you use and what weight?
Jim

[VMARAUDER]

If referring to my Lincoln, I change oil every 4 to 5 k miles and I used 5W20 and mostly the bulk oil from the oil change stores. On thing...several long trips ( I can't even count them ) of 1000 miles or more. Always kept the air filter and PVC clean and nothing else special.

[a_d_a_m]

Do you really have to use a pulley tool to remove the power steering pump wheel - in order to get front cover off? No. I know you've removed a 2V cover. The 4V cover is removed much in the same way, you just drop the pump. Which means that yes, the PS pump bolts are as much a ***** on the 4V as they are the 2V.

[svtguy]

Not done yet, just trying to knock out a little every night. It wasn't that difficult to date just very time consuming. I'm replacing all the idlers and water pump because I don't want to do this again.

I've been buying all my parts online from Tousley Ford. Cheaper then my local Ford Dealership. So that's been adding time to the project also.

I'll update this thread when I'm done and give you my final thought.

Were you able to finish this up yet? Just curious about it as I will be diving into this same job soon.

[03sport007]

I hope to be done this weekend. It's been hard finding time.

So far it's not to bad just time consuming. Make sure the puller you use to take the harmonic balance off doesn't damage the threads in the crank. Also use something like a paint marker to mark the timing chains in relation to the gears. That way you can check and make sure nothing jumped around on you. I removed the ps pump instead of removing the pulley.

[vegasmarauder]

Just finished doing chains, tensioners, guides, and a new oil pump (yes, you can change it with the engine in the car and witout taking off the oil pan) on one of the MM's. It had the cold start rattle if it sat longer than 48 hours. It finally got a tapping noise from the passenger side upper area of the timing cover, so it was time to do the chains, etc.

The picture is of the passenger side tensioner. It was worn all the way thru and grinding down on the tensioner piston.

Also, if you lay out the chain in a long row, mark the two links that end up on each end. These are the links that line up with the timing marks with the chains pulled tight on the non-tensioner end. New chains come with colored links that line up with the marks.

I use the holding tools to keep everything from moving when the chains are off, but they are a bit pricey to use one time.

By the way, If you hold the gas pedal all the way to the floor and crank the engine, it will not start. You can do this until the oil pressure comes up if you want to avoid the dry start. It really does work, you just have to be sure the gas pedal is on the floor before you crank the starter..

[03sport007]

Just finished doing chains, tensioners, guides, and a new oil pump (yes, you can change it with the engine in the car and witout taking off the oil pan) on one of the MM's. It had the cold start rattle if it sat longer than 48 hours. It finally got a tapping noise from the passenger side upper area of the timing cover, so it was time to do the chains, etc.

The picture is of the passenger side tensioner. It was worn all the way thru and grinding down on the tensioner piston.

Also, if you lay out the chain in a long row, mark the two links that end up on each end. These are the links that line up with the timing marks with the chains pulled tight on the non-tensioner end. New chains come with colored links that line up with the marks.

I use the holding tools to keep everything from moving when the chains are off, but they are a bit pricey to use one time.

By the way, If you hold the gas pedal all the way to the floor and crank the engine, it will not start. You can do this until the oil pressure comes up if you want to avoid the dry start. It really does work, you just have to be sure the gas pedal is on the floor before you crank the starter..



Wow!!!! How many miles on the engine?

[babbage]

Just finished doing chains, tensioners, guides, and a new oil pump (yes, you can change it with the engine in the car and witout taking off the oil pan) on one of the MM's. It had the cold start rattle if it sat longer than 48 hours. It finally got a tapping noise from the passenger side upper area of the timing cover, so it was time to do the chains, etc.

The picture is of the passenger side tensioner. It was worn all the way thru and grinding down on the tensioner piston.

Also, if you lay out the chain in a long row, mark the two links that end up on each end. These are the links that line up with the timing marks with the chains pulled tight on the non-tensioner end. New chains come with colored links that line up with the marks.

I use the holding tools to keep everything from moving when the chains are off, but they are a bit pricey to use one time.

By the way, If you hold the gas pedal all the way to the floor and crank the engine, it will not start. You can do this until the oil pressure comes up if you want to avoid the dry start. It really does work, you just have to be sure the gas pedal is on the floor before you crank the starter..

Nice job on the oil pump! I was looking at mine yesterday -- thinking if I could replace it, without too much trouble. I had 100K on mine and the guides were all fine! (pictures here) http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=88290

[vegasmarauder]

It's an '04 with 146K miles on it and didn't make any noise at all except a slight rattle on startup for past few months. After a hard run on the freeway and return to idle I could hear a tap, tap, tap from the right upper front of the engine.

Don't know the maintainence history on the car before I got it 18 months ago. We have an 03 300A with 230K miles on it that starts up quiet and makes no noise at all at idle or wide open.

I wonder if in it's past it had some of those Jiffy Lube $9.95 oil change specials I hear people brag about...

[babbage]

^^ Interesting. On your 300A, re: Jiffy lube - they won't even fill the crank case up! Half full and they claim that it's within operating spec! Then you have to PAY for 2-3 more quarts. :shake:

I'd rather change my oil myself outside in December wearing a t-shirt at night during a snowstorm then let them do it! :D

[VMARAUDER]

Yeah...I have done enough of those bareback oil changes. Now I order cases of Royal Purple and I take my Marauder to my local shop and let them do it, its worth it for me time/$$$ wise. They knock off $5 on the reg price.
Does anyone know what 6 qts of regular bulk 5w20 cost?

[svtguy]

No. I know you've removed a 2V cover. The 4V cover is removed much in the same way, you just drop the pump. Which means that yes, the PS pump bolts are as much a ***** on the 4V as they are the 2V.

Man, I wish I re-read this before I removed the steering pump pulley!

Taking that pulley out was brutal! I thought you had to, so I did. As I took off the bolt under the steering line, and the pump proceeded to "drop" just as you mentioned, my first thought was "great, did I just pull the pulley for nothing?" I then got kind of ticked, :P but I'm over it now :cool:. Blame myself for not looking at it closer. :dunno:

Anyway...I right now, this moment have everything unbolted from the front cover, and cam cover. After I drink a beer, I will pull the cover itself. Does Anyone know of any special problems I should be looking for with this step before I get back out there?

I'm worried about raising cam covers affecting something, especially the gaskets. Should I raise cam covers and support with something? I know not to remove them, just raise them less than an inch, is that right?

[babbage]

Pull the front cover out slow. There are dabs of RTV on the top of the front cover that touch the cam cover gaskets if you pull too quickly you'll pull the cam cover gaskets right out -- don't want to do that. You don't have to lift the top of the cam covers that much just a little bit - 1/8 inch- get a prybar and pry from the top out and then wiggle it back and forth and pull it out. Took a good amount of force to pull it off.

[svtguy]

ok thanks. I got it off! Wasn't too bad. Raise cam covers slightly. Pull timing cover carefully from top end. It eventually separates from top to bottom. At the bottom you just need to lever it over the raised tabs on the pan.

I am pretty surprised by what I see. In these pics you will see one of the guides plastic linings completely gone, as if it all broke off. Maybe it wore away and fell off but I'm kind of worried there might be big chunks of it in the pan. The metal on the guide does not appear to be worn. The linings on allthe others were perfectly fine. But it was slapping the hell out of it and making all kinds of noise. Not sure about the tensioners by looking at them. Has anyone seen a case like this before. Take a look.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/701/thumbs/IMG_7927.JPG (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/22850/title/img-7927/cat/701) http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/701/thumbs/IMG_7923.JPG (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/22848/title/img-7923/cat/701) http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/701/thumbs/IMG_7917.JPG (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/22847/title/img-7917/cat/701) http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/701/thumbs/IMG_79161.JPG (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/22849/title/img-79161/cat/701)

[babbage]

The chain appears to be on the wrong side of that guide? It looks different. Edit: I'm mistaken, because of the lack of guide plastic on the one side and the other side has some.

Plastic is totally gone! Drain the oil pan and see if you can fish/snake it out of there. Get a borescope with integrated light and a flexible grabber tool perhaps theres only a few big pieces.

[tom blahous]

check the pivit hole on the new tensioners, on the new for racing kit i used they were larger!s so i reused the old ones and switched the plastic off the new ones, my dad who retired from ford as a lifelong mechanic said he seen crap like this thruout his career,also remember somthing with the cover gasket being slightly off but was still able to use it!

[svtguy]

For those that did not replace the chains, how did you make sure timing wouldn't be affected. I've read where you can zip tie the chains so that nothing moves. I'm nervous about screwing the timing up. I only want to replace tensioners, arms and guides. I also saw where someone just had a friend hold the crank in place while the parts were quickly swapped out.:help:

[vegasmarauder]

There are 2 ways to do it. one is mark the chains where they line up with the timing marks. I use a small file and nik the edge of the chain link at each timing mark. With the new parts on the marks on the chain should line up with the marks on the sprockets.

Even if you forget to mark the chains, the interesting thing is that the index links on the new chain are always the end links if you lay the chain out in a parallel row. I don't have a pic, but when you lay the chain on a table if all the links are running horizontal in two rows right next to each other, there will be two links that are vertical on each end. These become your index marks on the chain. Mark those the same way with a file and then install the chains with the chain index marks in line with the sprocket marks.

By the way, it seems the passenger side chain likes to junp a tooth when putting it on, so check, double check, and triple check the marks are still lined up whith the tensioner arms in place.

Nothing should move with the chains off unless you turn the cams or crank without the chains on.

This is a lot of words, but it is simplier in reality.