Rear Brake Shoe replacement

[Mebot]

As mentioned in the "what did you do to your car thread" in the Lounge Forum (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1309739&postcount=3750) I installed new rotors, TCE SS brake lines, new pads at all four corners this past weekend. In the process of removing the right driver side rotor, the bottom brake shoe disintegrated. The top shoe is intact, but it looks like the bottom shoe must have been stuck on for quite awhile. Probably before I bought the car. I don't use the E-brake very often but it is a component that is checked every year in Virginia for the safety inspection. My inspection is due in September.

How difficult is it to replace these shoes? And how do you adjust the parking brake once you replace? When I had the wheel and rotor off it almost looks like a drum brake assembly back there. Springs and clips galore!

Any help is appreciated, thanks in advance

[fastblackmerc]

That is exactly what they are..... drum brakes.

[RubberCtyRauder]

Parking brake shoes adjusted with the star wheel. Access thru back of backing plate. There is an oval dustboot you pull off. A brake adjusting spoon works best but screw driver can work too. I can't remember which way they adjust to make tighter. It is the opposite direction for other side. I think it is driver side adjust towards front when under car and passenger towards rear when under car

[Mebot]

Parking brake shoes adjusted with the star wheel. Access thru back of backing plate. There is an oval dustboot you pull off. A brake adjusting spoon works best but screw driver can work too. I can't remember which way they adjust to make tighter. It is the opposite direction for other side. I think it is driver side adjust towards front when under car and passenger towards rear when under car

Thanks for the reply. Forgive my ignorance but is a star wheel the name of the tool required? I don't believe I have one if so...

[Mebot]

another quick question:

Should I replace all four shoes at the same time? And I see there are several options on Rock Auto. Any particular brands I should stay away from?

[RubberCtyRauder]

I replaced everything. Get the new hardware kit too. Not all come with. I just bought mine at FLAPS. A star wheel is part of the hardware. It looks like a star washer but is threaded for the adjusting assembly to spread apart to make tighter fit to drum or further away forlrss fit. Use antiseize inside the threaded areas. Only do one side at a time so you can use other as reference.

[fastblackmerc]

another quick question:

Should I replace all four shoes at the same time? And I see there are several options on Rock Auto. Any particular brands I should stay away from?

Always replace both sides at the same time. Can you even buy half a set?

There are only parking brakes. Get whatever ones fit your budget.

[RubberCtyRauder]

Just to add. Emergency brakes are same. Marauder, Crown Vic. Marquis. I used 04 marquis when i bought mine

[Mebot]

Great! Thank you both for your insight and reference. I appreciate it!

sent from a Samsung Galaxy far far away...

[RF Overlord]

Forgive my ignorance but is a star wheel the name of the tool required? No, the star wheel is the small....star-shaped...gadget that joins one end of the brake shoes together. On the driver's side, it is toward the rear of the car. You pry against the points of the star to rotate it to spread the shoes farther apart to make the brake tighter or closer together to make the brake looser. You'll see the oval hole in the backing plate right behind it.

The parking brake on this car works exactly like old-school drum brakes did on cars from the '60s and '70s. It adjusts the same way, too.

[fastblackmerc]

Thanks for the reply. Forgive my ignorance but is a star wheel the name of the tool required? I don't believe I have one if so...

It's also known as a "brake spoon".

[Mebot]

No, the star wheel is the small....star-shaped...gadget that joins one end of the brake shoes together. On the driver's side, it is toward the rear of the car. You pry against the points of the star to rotate it to spread the shoes farther apart to make the brake tighter or closer together to make the brake looser. You'll see the oval hole in the backing plate right behind it.

The parking brake on this car works exactly like old-school drum brakes did on cars from the '60s and '70s. It adjusts the same way, too.

Thanks Bob. Funny how 40 year old technology is still being used. Also I think this is the reason why when I bought the car in September and got it inspected, the inspector said the parking brake was "loose". Now I know why.

sent from a Samsung Galaxy far far away...

[Brad33]

Thanks Bob. Funny how 40 year old technology is still being used. Also I think this is the reason why when I bought the car in September and got it inspected, the inspector said the parking brake was "loose". Now I know why.

sent from a Samsung Galaxy far far away...

40 years? Try 110 years...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drum_brake#Brake_drum

[Mebot]

Yeah but I meant like muscle cars and ****. Lol

sent from a Samsung Galaxy far far away...

[ctrlraven]

I plan on replacing my e-brake stuff while the car is up in the air getting a new air bag kit.

Most new cars (not entry level stuff) did away with the drum brakes and use the rear caliper to clamp down. Past few years a lot more cars now even have an electronic e-brake now.

[MyBlackBeasts]

Watch the star wheels. Most drum setups have 1 star wheel left hand thread & 1 with right hand. Look at your old one when you disassemble so you put the new ones in the correct side for proper operation.

Yes, I was flabergasted when I found this retarded drum e-brake on a modern Panther. Corvette used to use the setup years ago and it was crap then. Don't know why Ford used it on the Panther vs. modern caliper e-brake.

No inspection here so I left all the brake parts off mine for trouble free operation.

E-brakes have to never be used or always be used. If infrequently used will sieze up when depressed and then you are screwed (especially in a rust climate like we have here in WI).

[Mebot]

Watch the star wheels. Most drum setups have 1 star wheel left hand thread & 1 with right hand. Look at your old one when you disassemble so you put the new ones in the correct side for proper operation.

Yes, I was flabergasted when I found this retarded drum e-brake on a modern Panther. Corvette used to use the setup years ago and it was crap then. Don't know why Ford used it on the Panther vs. modern caliper e-brake.

No inspection here so I left all the brake parts off mine for trouble free operation.

E-brakes have to never be used or always be used. If infrequently used will sieze up when depressed and then you are screwed (especially in a rust climate like we have here in WI).

Cool. I will. Thanks for the heads up on the star wheel, I appreciate it!

[RubberCtyRauder]

There is no difference in the star adjuster in this case..either one works either side..it's the orientation of placement that is different.




http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu92/mdnos/brakes2_zpsd7b9fc87.jpg

[RF Overlord]

I think it only mattered when the car had rear drum brakes with automatic adjusters. Not positive about this as I took too many drugs was busy during the '60s.

[Mebot]

Had some free time to replace my parking brake shoes (both sides) this weekend. Took a little longer than I wanted because a thunderstorm came out of nowhere while I was working and I had to go on a rain delay
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/29/e9yqydaq.jpg

Anyways when I had my wheels off I noticed my SS brake line on my rear passenger side was getting some wear. It was rubbing on the inside of my wheel. Not good. So I took the line off and realigned it. Of course removing the line meant I had to bleed the brakes. I tried gravity bleeding but I still had mushy pedal.

I went over to my buddy house today and we bled the rear wheels only. Brakes are a lot better now but my question is: if I only removed the brake line at one wheel, do I need to bleed all 4 corners? I wouldn't think so, but I'm not sure how the brake system works. I drove over to my buddy's house which is about 5 miles away. Is that enough time for air to cycle from the right rear passenger side brake line, up through to the master cylinder and on to the other lines? :confused:

Like I said, we got both rear corners bled and it feels a lot better. I want to make sure if I need to bleed the front too, I can do it before any problems occur.

sent from a Samsung Galaxy far far away...

[Chi Stallion]

Napa makes good replacements for the rear brakes shoes. I have had their Ultra Premium brake shoes for 2 and a half years with no problems.


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

[RF Overlord]

my question is: if I only removed the brake line at one wheel, do I need to bleed all 4 corners?No. The fronts are on a separate circuit. You should only need to bleed that one wheel.

[Mebot]

No. The fronts are on a separate circuit. You should only need to bleed that one wheel.

Thanks Bob, that's what I thought and good to know for future reference

sent from a Samsung Galaxy far far away...

[EMAS]

Watch the star wheels. Most drum setups have 1 star wheel left hand thread & 1 with right hand. Look at your old one when you disassemble so you put the new ones in the correct side for proper operation.

Yes, I was flabergasted when I found this retarded drum e-brake on a modern Panther. Corvette used to use the setup years ago and it was crap then. Don't know why Ford used it on the Panther vs. modern caliper e-brake.

No inspection here so I left all the brake parts off mine for trouble free operation.

E-brakes have to never be used or always be used. If infrequently used will sieze up when depressed and then you are screwed (especially in a rust climate like we have here in WI).

Caliper style E-brakes suck they are a usually a royal PITA to re-set to put new pads in and often just have to be replaced because they E-brake portion seized up. Drums in the rotor are the way to go because they are good for the life of the vehicle 95% of the time and don't mess with your service brakes.

[Mebot]

This past weekend I attempted to tighten up my parking brake shoes but I can't for the life of me get the ebrake to tighten up.

Here's what I did:


turned Air ride off in the trunk
lifted the rear end
transmission in neutral
Rear Passenger side I took the rubber grommet off the backing plate and turned the star wheel until the wheel couldn't move freely (picture below)
I backed the star wheel off a couple clicks so the wheel could move freely again
Same for the driver side (picture below)
I pushed the parking brake down (moved pretty easily) and the wheels still turn
I tried adjusting the parking brake cable by pulling down on the parking brake clip and moving the cable back and forth and pushing back up on the clip (picture below)

Why can't I tighten my parking brake? I was hoping to tighten it up without having to take my rotor hat off. Also, I am not sure if this makes a difference but when I installed my parking brake shoes, I did not have the Parking Brake depressed. Would this have anything to do with it?

I can move the star wheel to the point where the wheels do not move so I know I am making progress with the shoes engaging the back of the rotor. But now the parking brake is giving me fits!


Any help is appreciated!





Driver side with the little "window" for the star wheel:


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y90/Mebot/20130825_150917_zps981abd37.jp g



Passenger side:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y90/Mebot/20130825_150933_zps7a68d69b.jp g

Parking brake cable
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y90/Mebot/20130825_150901_zps438e39c8.jp g

[ctrlraven]

When changing the ebrake shoes you want the ebrake depressed. Make no adjustments to the cable or star wheel until the new shoes have been installed. Install new shoes and make sure all new spring hardware was used and everything is tight and secure. Put the rotor and brake caliper back on and then put the wheel back on and tighten lugs down. You then will adjust the star wheel until the wheel will not turn and then back off a few clicks until the wheel will freely rotate.

When I had mine done, the cable had to have more adjustment done on the passenger side, it would engage the drivers side just fine but then seemed to have slack on the passenger side.

Took my friend who is a mechanic about 3-4 hrs to do my rotor/pad swap, replace parking brake shoes and hardware and then do the adjustment on them. Took a while because of trying to track down the issue with the parking brake shoes but now my parking brake pedal doesn't even go half way down without a lot of force.

[Mebot]

When changing the ebrake shoes you want the ebrake depressed. Make no adjustments to the cable or star wheel until the new shoes have been installed. Install new shoes and make sure all new spring hardware was used and everything is tight and secure. Put the rotor and brake caliper back on and then put the wheel back on and tighten lugs down. You then will adjust the star wheel until the wheel will not turn and then back off a few clicks until the wheel will freely rotate.

When I had mine done, the cable had to have more adjustment done on the passenger side, it would engage the drivers side just fine but then seemed to have slack on the passenger side.

Took my friend who is a mechanic about 3-4 hrs to do my rotor/pad swap, replace parking brake shoes and hardware and then do the adjustment on them. Took a while because of trying to track down the issue with the parking brake shoes but now my parking brake pedal doesn't even go half way down without a lot of force.

I think this might be my issue.

I did everything else exactly the same. So now should I take my shoes off and install them again with the parking brake engaged?

[ctrlraven]

I think this might be my issue.

I did everything else exactly the same. So now should I take my shoes off and install them again with the parking brake engaged?
I probably would just so you know that you will be starting off the right way which should yield better results.

[RF Overlord]

Not to contradict Chris, but when I finally had to make the e-brakes work in Mary's car to pass inspection, I didn't have anything depressed. All I did was adjust the star wheel until the shoes just barely dragged. Pedal worked fine.

[ctrlraven]

Not to contradict Chris, but when I finally had to make the e-brakes work in Mary's car to pass inspection, I didn't have anything depressed. All I did was adjust the star wheel until the shoes just barely dragged. Pedal worked fine.
You're right, I had a brain fart yesterday. lol

The ebrake pedal should not be depressed, ebrake system should be off when installing and making all adjustments. Ebrake should be applied to test adjustment.

[Mebot]

Ok then what am I doing wrong? I adjusted the star wheel on both sides until the wheels couldn't move then I backed it off about 10 clicks.

My emergency brake does nothing. I am hoping to fix this myself than take to a shop

sent from a Samsung Galaxy far far away...

[RubberCtyRauder]

Although hard to describe...I'll do my best..Did the e-cable pop out of the actuator which is right by the front pad? I know when I did my rear brakes the cable popped out like twice and it wasn't really easy to tell unless looking for it.

[ctrlraven]

Ok then what am I doing wrong? I adjusted the star wheel on both sides until the wheels couldn't move then I backed it off about 10 clicks.

My emergency brake does nothing. I am hoping to fix this myself than take to a shop

sent from a Samsung Galaxy far far away...

10 clicks might of been too much. With new shoes and properly adjusted you should have not have to depress the brake pedal more than half way for them to fully engage.

[Mebot]

Although hard to describe...I'll do my best..Did the e-cable pop out of the actuator which is right by the front pad? I know when I did my rear brakes the cable popped out like twice and it wasn't really easy to tell unless looking for it.

AFAIK, I don't think so. I will keep this in mind so when I tackle it again on Sunday I can use this as a troubleshoot. Please keep the comments coming!


10 clicks might of been too much. With new shoes and properly adjusted you should have not have to depress the brake pedal more than half way for them to fully engage.

When I look at my brakes again on Sunday I will take my rotor hats off and start from the Drum Brake out.

[RF Overlord]

RubberCtyRauder might be on to something. Mary's car has a dead pedal that interferes with the e-brake pedal travel, so if the e-brake worked on her car, then the pedal must not have been depressed very far to engage.

[Mebot]

I will be taking a look at the brakes one more time on Sunday before taking it to be looked at it. I don't know what the problem is with my e-brake.

RubberCtyRauder: I don't think the e-cable popped out of the actuator because when I depress the e-brake I can see the cables underneath the car move. I will take a closer inspection.

What was the old way of adjusting drum brakes? Pumping your brakes in reverse? I guess this doesn't work for the e-brake does it?

[RubberCtyRauder]

These cars do not have self adjusting rear brakes/e brakes

The cable would still move when depressing the e brake pedal. it is just that it isn't attach thru the backing plate making the e brakes engage. best to do it with the wheels off and have a helper while one watches/looks

[RF Overlord]

^^^what RCR said^^^

I seem to remember that the connection between the cable and the shoes was kinda hokey when I did them on Mary's car.