Need some help with my '79 F250

[Cheeseheadbob]

Hey folks, I have an issue with my truck. I started it up with no problem yesterday morning and drove to the dump, about 6 miles. After dumping my stuff and getting back in, I tried to start it and all I got was the starter turning over about three time very slowly and then nothing.

I got a push start and went on my way. I drove to Auto Zone and got my battery tested and everything was ok there. So, logic would dictate that I buy a new starter. I did that and put it in this morning. Again, the exact same thing. So, off to Auto Zone for a new starter solenoid... Same result. Then new battery cables and a complete wire brushing and grease on any starter/battery related contacts. Again nothing. The truck will start fine when I roll it and pop the clutch in second, so there is no fuel issue.

The starter does turn, just about two to three times with a second or two between turns, and then nothing.

The ground is good to go as well. I am completely out of ideas. Any thoughts from the collective?

Thanks. -Bob

[MyBlackBeasts]

Block to battery ground...

Is it running hot?

Mechanical advance weights in dist are frozen in the "on" position (or return spring broken/missing) making timing too advanced to start hot motor?

[Cheeseheadbob]

I am not much of a wrench, so I must have missed the block to battery ground. Where is that located? The engine is not running hot.
Block to battery ground...

Is it running hot?

Mechanical advance weights in dist are frozen in the "on" position (or return spring broken/missing) making timing too advanced to start hot motor?

[yjmud]

starter solenoid

[Richy04]

Block to battery ground...

Is it running hot?

Mechanical advance weights in dist are frozen in the "on" position (or return spring broken/missing) making timing too advanced to start hot motor?

What he said!!

[Cheeseheadbob]

Replaced that along with the starter...
starter solenoid

[MyBlackBeasts]

I am not much of a wrench, so I must have missed the block to battery ground. Where is that located? The engine is not running hot.

The main neg cable from battery attaches to the engine block. Disconnect it from block, clean the cable connector & block surface, coat the connector & block surface with a conductive compound like copper based anti-sieze & re-assemble. Finish off with a quick spray of paint or battery connector spray to seal off oxygen to prevent corrosion & keep the conductive compound from washing away. You will have a long-term repair which hopefully corrects your problem.

Good luck.

[Cheeseheadbob]

Perhaps my set up is a little different. The main negative battery cable is grounded to the radiator support bracket and the horn bracket is also attached with the same bolt. I have had this set up since I bought the truck and have had no trouble until yesterday. Am I missing something?
The main neg cable from battery attaches to the engine block. Disconnect it from block, clean the cable connector & block surface, coat the connector & block surface with a conductive compound like copper based anti-sieze & re-assemble. Finish off with a quick spray of paint or battery connector spray to seal off oxygen to prevent corrosion & keep the conductive compound from washing away. You will have a long-term repair which hopefully corrects your problem.

Good luck.

[Gryphonzus]

It could still be the battery. Some of the battery testers they use are not that good. Half the time that I have had my battery tested and they said it was good it was not. It cant hurt to try another battery. Good luck!

[MyBlackBeasts]

Perhaps my set up is a little different. The main negative battery cable is grounded to the radiator support bracket and the horn bracket is also attached with the same bolt. I have had this set up since I bought the truck and have had no trouble until yesterday. Am I missing something?

Yes, someone cobbled it up.

Main (Large gage) neg cable MUST be bolted to a hard/large fastener on the engine. I will bet what ever was grounding the engine to the body/frame has now failed.

You basically have pos to starter but a poor ground to the starter. Relocate the cable to the engine and see if it cures the issue.

If it does, make sure there is a good ground strap (smaller gage) from engine to the body also or you will end up with other propblems (good idea to also have ground wire from battery neg to body for complete & correct grounding).

[EMAS]

Yeah you should have a minimum 4ga wire running from the battery (-) terminal directly to the engine, either the block or head is preferred. From the factory there was either a braided strap from the back of the engine to the firewall or sometimes a 10ga wire incorporated with the engine ground that runs to the radiator/core support to provide a ground for the body.

[gpfarrell]

Get a jumper cable.

Clip one end onto the negative terminal and the other end onto the engine block... if it starts, you know that goofy ground is your problem.

[Cheeseheadbob]

Wouldn't a jump start either rule in or out the grounding problem? I tried a jump start and there was absolutely no difference. I guess if the ground is bad, then the circuit can not be completed thus very little or no current to the starter?
It could still be the battery. Some of the battery testers they use are not that good. Half the time that I have had my battery tested and they said it was good it was not. It cant hurt to try another battery. Good luck!

[mrjones]

[QUOTE=Cheeseheadbob;1312149]Wouldn't a jump start either rule in or out the grounding problem? I tried a jump start and there was absolutely no difference.

The jump start wouldn't help if you connected the negative jumper cable to the battery. If you connected it to the engine block you would see the difference if the ground is part of the problem. Certainly sounds like the ground cable needs to be corrected. The negative battery cable should not go up to the radiator.

A bad or weak battery could be causing what you're describing too.

[MyBlackBeasts]

Wouldn't a jump start either rule in or out the grounding problem? I tried a jump start and there was absolutely no difference. I guess if the ground is bad, then the circuit can not be completed thus very little or no current to the starter?

NO. A jump would just try to push more current in to the load with a poor return thru bad/incomplete ground (think of it as increasing the water flow in to a sink with a partially blocked drain).


Get a jumper cable.

Clip one end onto the negative terminal and the other end onto the engine block... if it starts, you know that goofy ground is your problem.

Do this^^^^ it is a simple way to diagnose your issue. Just make sure the engine end of the jumper cable has a good contact to what you clamp it to on the engine.

[Cheeseheadbob]

Well, I replaced everything that could possibly be contributing to the problem... Starter, starter solenoid, battery cables, regrounded the negative cable to the engine block, and still nothing.

Of course it could not possibly be the battery because Auto Zone tested it and said it had close to 700 amps of cold cranking and all I needed was somewhere in the neighborhood of 350... :mad2:

So, after replacing the battery, the truck started up like it was the Space Shuttle blasting off! Maybe I needed to replace everything I did, and it was therapeutic working on the truck, but I would suggest taking the Auto Zone battery checks with a grain of salt.

Anyhoo, it was fun poking around in the engine bay and I know quite a bit more about my truck than I used to, so all in all I am happy I did all of the work I did. :D

[fastblackmerc]

Well, I replaced everything that could possibly be contributing to the problem... Starter, starter solenoid, battery cables, regrounded the negative cable to the engine block, and still nothing.

Of course it could not possibly be the battery because Auto Zone tested it and said it had close to 700 amps of cold cranking and all I needed was somewhere in the neighborhood of 350... :mad2:

So, after replacing the battery, the truck started up like it was the Space Shuttle blasting off! Maybe I needed to replace everything I did, and it was therapeutic working on the truck, but I would suggest taking the Auto Zone battery checks with a grain of salt.

Anyhoo, it was fun poking around in the engine bay and I know quite a bit more about my truck than I used to, so all in all I am happy I did all of the work I did. :D

Good Job!!!!!!!

[MyBlackBeasts]

Well, I replaced everything that could possibly be contributing to the problem... Starter, starter solenoid, battery cables, regrounded the negative cable to the engine block, and still nothing.

Of course it could not possibly be the battery because Auto Zone tested it and said it had close to 700 amps of cold cranking and all I needed was somewhere in the neighborhood of 350... :mad2:

So, after replacing the battery, the truck started up like it was the Space Shuttle blasting off! Maybe I needed to replace everything I did, and it was therapeutic working on the truck, but I would suggest taking the Auto Zone battery checks with a grain of salt.

Anyhoo, it was fun poking around in the engine bay and I know quite a bit more about my truck than I used to, so all in all I am happy I did all of the work I did. :D

Yeahhhhhhhhh! Good to hear!

As for the battery test - its only as good as the person doing the test... :shake: