Dyno Numbers are in!!

[Logan]

Well, I spent a bit of time at the dyno today.

I compared my stock marauder to running my Marauder with a Reinhart chip.

A little background, it was 100+ degrees here in Dallas today and each of the runs was done with 15 minute cool down periods.

I'm very please with the Reinhart chip and feel the gains will certainly be considerably greater once the exhaust and air intake is opened up.

But for those who want to know what the expect from simply chipping your car, this is the skinny!

Bone stock, pulled 239 rear wheel hp, and 248 ft/lbs torque.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/images/prechipdyno.jpg

With the Reinhart chip, pulled 256.3 rear wheel hp, and 278.6 ft/lbs torque.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/images/postchipdyno.jpg


That's 17.3 rear wheel hp and 30.6 ft/lbs rear wheel torque directly as a result of the chip.

Now, the debate can start, but essentially every mod has a cumulative effect. Adding cooler plugs and a colder thermostat will result in another 8-10hp/tq with the chip. Opening up the intake, should be good for another 10-15hp/tq and same thing for the exhaust. The mods by themselves will help, but it's really the cumulative effect of all the mods working together that will yield the best results.

What's my verdict? For the price, there's still no better way to pick up that much horse power and torque for a few bills...

My hat's off to Dennis! I'm a happy guy.

[MarauderMike]

Logan, did you have the cooler plugs in for the dyno test?

[Dennis Reinhart]

No, Logan did not have the plugs or the stat in, basically what I have done is this. I have set this chip up so if you put premium in it the car you will make Max power if you put lower octane in it its not going to be nearly as stout. What I have done is tweak the spark tables and made the Knock sensors far more sensitive, what this allows for, is if you run 91 octane the knock sensors will retard the timing making the car perfectly safe if you run premium the car will use the tables and not pull timing. Making max power Plugs and the stat should be used, with the chip. Someone send me there car for a blower PLEASE:)

[Larry Vogel]

Mercury's boasting of 300hp and 318ft. lbs. of torque wasn't taken at the rear wheels?

[warren]

Logan - Good job, Thanks so much for all your testing...you really do step up to the plate. I
would love to hear where yhour 0-60 times go with all of this. We should all have close to 340+hp when we put in all the Dennis R. stuff -

Dennis, std. stat is 188 degs. what is the 10 stat. and does it have a small bleed hole in outer ring. Also my local gas stations prem. gas
is 91 oct. here in Calif. is your chip going to work.

Good NEWS.....Called my girl Carole(super person) at Ford Cust Ser. and my 03MM will be built between 7/22&7/29 and Delivered between 8/5&8/12.
Hoooray - also asked them if they would like to make pick up day a grand event here and contact my PR agy. & invite the SF Bay Area MM folks to be on hand. They are supposed to get back to me..will keep you posted.

Warren B.

[Logan]

Larry, Published horsepower and torque numbers are always at the crankshaft, not the rear wheels.

Warren, The 4.6 has a lot of potential, as Dennis has demonstrated in his Mark VIII, which is a pretty close match, weight/drivetrain wise for the marauder. His Mark VIII runs a 11.5 second quarter mile...

[b4z]

Logan,

Good job. Looks like the standard 20% deduction for rear wheel horsepower hold true with the Maruader.
The numbers also explain why the marauder is slow off the line.
110 hp @ 3400 rpms.

[JamesHecker]

Man, am I tempted to respond to your request, Dennis! It's just that Southern California is a long, long ways away from Florida. About what would it cost what do you think the results would be?

[Logan]

Originally posted by b4z
Logan,

Good job. Looks like the standard 20% deduction for rear wheel horsepower hold true with the Maruader.
The numbers also explain why the marauder is slow off the line.
110 hp @ 3400 rpms.

b4z... Precisely why those 4.10 gears make such a difference. They get you out of that lower power band alot quicker.... :)

[OKmrodr]

Since you already had the 4.10 gears in....that would mean NOT bone stock, IMO.

Also, on the before chip dyno chart, why does it show output falling off the table so sharply? Is that from disconnecting/stopping the run or the limiter? Is there a correlation of the dyno output to an actual expected ground speed at a certain RPM?

What is your next step: Flowmaster? Headers? Stat? Plugs?

[Logan]

OKmrodr... Gears have no impact on a chassis dyno, so for the purposes of the dyno, yes, the car was stock.

The output dropoff on the chart for the stock program is a direct result of the speed limiter. The chip removes the speed limiter. Notice that the motor peaked quite a bit before the speed limiter, so we certainly saw the best the motor had to offer.

Next mods are plugs and thermostat along with redoing the exhaust system from the cat back with a custom built Magnaflow X pipe setup. Flowmasters are too loud IMO...

[SSMOKEM]

Hey Logan,

Nice gains from just a chip!!! :)

However, I'm quite surprised at the 5400rpm peak. I really expected this motor to be a revver, with peaks in the 6000 range.

Someone mentioend about the low HP down low, but a good converter will take care of that. My car has very little to give below 3000 too :)

[Leadfoot]

1. The 4.6 is has more potential than most will need. I have seen dyno runs for 4.6 Mustangs well over 1000 rwhp. Quarter mile trips only though.

2. 4.10 gears do have an affect on chassis dynos - a small one though. Maybe a few horsepower. They are less efficient than numerically lower gears. They operate at a higher temperature too.

3. How do the knock sensors work on these engines? I understand they look for a specific frequency produced by the knock. If these sensors operate this way, they are not very reliable at detecting knocks. A better way to tune for two different fuels is to have a switchable chip burned. Flip the swith one way and run regular, switch it another way for premium. Its much safer.

[Leadfoot]

Oh and another thing, colder plugs and a colder thermostat only help when you have knock. They may hurt if there is no knock. An engine runs more efficiently when hot.

Read the FAQs at http://www.fordchip.com. They explain it there. Also, they can burn switchable chips. I don't have any experience with them though. They were recommended in the http://www.corral.net/ forums.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Actualy we share the same same programing . You can also check me out on the WWW.Corral.net.
You are right about the plugs I do not recomend using colder plugs and thermostat with out the chip.



Originally posted by Leadfoot
Oh and another thing, colder plugs and a colder thermostat only help when you have knock. They may hurt if there is no knock. An engine runs more efficiently when hot.

Read the FAQs at http://www.fordchip.com. They explain it there. Also, they can burn switchable chips. I don't have any experience with them though. They were recommended in the http://www.corral.net/ forums.

[Jim]

I've only got the 'before' runs; haven't installed the chip yet...
Bone stock, no gears, no nothing;

244hp / 254 ft-lbs. Not too shabby.

-Jim

[MarauderMike]

Jim, how many miles on your MM?

[Jim]

Just over 2k.


-Jim

[RancorKeeper]

I'm kinda surprised at the torque numbers - 248 & 254. Does the 4R70W really sap that much power thru drivetrain loss? Or does the driveshaft vibration issue at high speeds also contribute to the high loss factor? Anyone got any thoughts?

[Smokie]

Logan, the dyno runs you posted are 9 minutes apart, you installed the chip that fast ? Or you removed it for the "before" and plugged it back in for the "after". Smokie.

[Logan]

Yeah, I had been running around without the chip for a couple days, then put it in after the first run.

[mensrea]

I think there is huge loss with the standard torque converter... the Perofrmance Industries Stallion torque converter added almost 30 rwhp and torque to my car...with gobs more torque in the low to midrange

I highly suggest it (it's pricey though)

PI Stalltion torque converter (http://www.converter.com/stallion.htm)

[mensrea]

Here are the dyno numbers I posted in the photo gallery....

[MAD-3R]

Was this the final run?

[mensrea]

This is the number I believe will be attainable and repeatable with the Kenny conversion. But no, it was not the final run.

[Dennis Reinhart]

If the club is interested I can get a group purchase on these for 750.00 plus shipping

[mensrea]

HOLY CRAP... buy it buy it buy it. (the torque converter that is)

IT ROCKS and so does that price

[MAD-3R]

I'm driving my Birthday present, X-mas present, and aniversery present. :) no way would I be able to talk her into that... :)

[Logan]

Hmmm... Where can I find $750...

[mensrea]

Beg, borrow, steal or charge it... this thing wakes the car up... I can't begin to tell you how great of a mod this is.

[SSMOKEM]

Beg, borrow, steal or charge it... this thing wakes the car up... I can't begin to tell you how great of a mod this is.
As I predicted............... :D

[SSee SSpot Run]

hey logan..it it's looks as if you're fuel trim is running a little lean on the dyno sheets. if that's the case you've got a few more ponies in there. i don't know what the optimum is for your engine but for us it's around 12.5:1. rock on, rus

[Vader]

Originally posted by Logan
Larry, Published horsepower and torque numbers are always at the crankshaft, not the rear wheels....

Well, that may be true in Dearborn, but not necessarily in Flint. GM rates (and understates) the HP/torque numbers at the ground, on a treadmill. That's why a 345HP Corvette stays nose-to-nose with a "510HP" Viper in nearly the same weight vehicle.

Eight years ago, the Impala SS, Roadmaster, DeVille, etc. were rated at 260HP/320 ft/lb - at the ground. A lot of us know better than that, and like the Romeo engines, the factory didn't tap the full potential.

In a heavy vehicle like that, the torque converter always seems like the first thing to fail (or at least that's what I tell my wife).

[cyclone03]

Yeah thats the ticket........
Honey I need a new converter,it's preventive maintence..........
Hum.........
No way, she aint that dumb.

[Mike M]

I install the Reinhart chip today and it feels better down low. I will do a dyno pull next week with it active and deactivated.
Mike
www.premierautocenter.com

[schuvwj]

Does this chip eat your warranty? Where can I get one?
Sounds like adding cooler plugs and themostat in the way to go.
When you say opening up the intake do you mean using a K&N Filter?

Thanks!

[yamahaSHO]

Those are awesome numbers for just a chip on a NA motor!!

[mensrea]

Here are my dyno numbers from before the TorqueConverter...after there was a HUGE improvement...

Dyno for Kenny Brown Marauder (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/details.php?image_id=68)

I am curious to see if other people's dynos were SAE corrected. Are their graphs that aren't?

[Paul Anderegg]

My 98 Vic has ported heads on a 2001 PI engine, and makes 250rwhp/292rwtq. I would speculate that porting and some exhaust mods on a Marauder would make 310-320rwhp?

Anyone have ported heads and a dyno for a Marauder? I have my dyno available for anyone interested. For comparison, my car makes 225rwp/200rwtq at 6000rpm, so definetally the DOHC heads FLOW at high RPM. I would think increasing the shift points to 6500rpm would be VERY beneficial, as I have 6000 shift points in my SOHC and run 14.3 ET

Paul

[DLoreanMARAUDER]

I like the iidea of adding the chip, but i am worried about the warranty (shes only 2 days old and has only 180 miles). its an awsome car and if it can be improved then NICE!

[martyo]

DLorean: Welcome aboard. Finally some New Yorkers are showing up!

[FordNut]

DLorean,
As you'll find from the posts in these forums, warranty is a funny thing. Some dealers will void your engine warranty if they even find that the cover has been taken off the ECM and modified for a chip to be used (logic being there was a chip and it caused the failure but it was removed before the car was brought in). Other dealers will install and even sell you a chip, but even they will tell you that warranty is a funny thing and may not be honored if you take it to other, mod-unfriendly dealers for service. Some will even tell you up front, the first failure and replacement is on us, after that you're on your own. I had expected SVT dealers to be the most mod-friendly but was surprised to find that the guys that work on diesels install chips frequently and are generally more mod-friendly than others.

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by Vader


Eight years ago, the Impala SS, Roadmaster, DeVille, etc. were rated at 260HP/320 ft/lb - at the ground.

If that's the case, why did a stock '96 Impala SS on Horse Power TV dyno at just 210.7 HP at the ground? :confused:

[Dennis Reinhart]

Originally posted by DLoreanMARAUDER
I like the iidea of adding the chip, but i am worried about the warranty (shes only 2 days old and has only 180 miles). its an awsome car and if it can be improved then NICE!

Well if this is te case I can flash the EEC and the dealer cannot tell, what I did for my car is I bought a spare EEC.

[RCSignals]

Dennis, that method is appealing.
When you reflash the EEC does it affect remote and PATS spare key programming at all?

Do you know anything about the programming changes for the 2004s yet?

[cyclone03]

Originally posted by Dennis Reinhart
Well if this is te case I can flash the EEC and the dealer cannot tell, what I did for my car is I bought a spare EEC.

This is the way I want to go too.
Any chance you can set up shop in Dallas,during the FFW?

I know JDM brings the hardware and soft ware to burn chips on the spot.

Friday night the track is open for test and tune too....................