Strike at FLM plant causes delay in MM delivery...

[hitchhiker]

Strike at FLM plant causes delay in MM delivery...

I was informed today that a strike at the FLM plant in Canada is causing my MM
delivery to be delayed for an 'unspecified' amount of time. :censor:

I was supposed to take delivery late this week!

Has anyone else been told this?

Any news?

Thanks and Best Regards,

David

[Ross]

That truly sucks! :down:

[Dr Caleb]

It's not a strike at the plant. It's with the Canadian Auto Workers union, specifically the people who load and drive trains and Canadian National Railways. The trains are arriving at the plant full of parts, but the plant workers (not on strike) are refusing to unload the trains, because their bretheren who are supposed to drive and load the trains are being replaced with managment during the strike. Just a show of solidarity.

The strike is over, has been for a bout a week, so things should be back to normal by now. I guess they got their $100,000 a year and 4 hour work days.

[Ross]

It's not a strike at the plant. It's with the Canadian Auto Workers union, specifically the people who load and drive trains and Canadian National Railways. The trains are arriving at the plant full of parts, but the plant workers (not on strike) are refusing to unload the trains, because their bretheren who are supposed to drive and load the trains are being replaced with managment during the strike. Just a show of solidarity.

The strike is over, has been for a bout a week, so things should be back to normal by now. I guess they got their $100,000 a year and 4 hour work days.

You might say that the plant workers aren't on strike, but when they are refusing to do their jobs, it amounts to the same thing.

[UAW 588]

You might say that the plant workers aren't on strike, but when they are refusing to do their jobs, it amounts to the same thing.

It's not a strike, but it is called a work stopage. Have had this done in the past in my plant for safety concerns brought up by the union, and given to the company.

[nexstar7]

i'd hate to see what those cars are going to turn out to look like. it's bad enough we got a bad paint job,bad carpet, bad woofer and others things but, a union struggle in there too. i feel sorry for those cars. and those are the last of the mohecans. to bad, that year got a nice tranny. :shake:

[hitchhiker]

I have a list I will be using to go over my 2004 MM upon delivery.

If I discover flaws - I may walk away.

I am not sure yet.

What about the rebate programs that expire at the end of March?

Do I have recourse since it was Ford's problem, not mine?

I was told that my car has already been built, but was waiting on the sunroof install and then loading on rail.

I am beginning to wonder about build quality in a country famous for harboring criminals, draft dodgers, and an excessive number of French (froggie) people!

Best Regards,

David

[MERCMAN]

NOW NOW!! We have many Canadian brothers on here! FOR SHAME!! :lol:

[hitchhiker]

i'd hate to see what those cars are going to turn out to look like. it's bad enough we got a bad paint job,bad carpet, bad woofer and others things but, a union struggle in there too. i feel sorry for those cars. and those are the last of the mohecans. to bad, that year got a nice tranny. :shake:
Do you really think that build quality will suffer as a result of this?

Regards,

David

[nexstar7]

??????????? What Do You Think

[bigslim]

Being a UAW worker I hate hearing this suttle bashing going on. They were supporting their Union counterparts. It is good to show solidarity to other unions. I'm sure that quality will be the same as if this never happened. Maybe if more supported the unions there wouldn't be so much unemployment in the U.S. right now.

[UAW 588]

Being a UAW worker I hate hearing this suttle bashing going on. They were supporting their Union counterparts. It is good to show solidarity to other unions. I'm sure that quality will be the same as if this never happened. Maybe if more supported the unions there wouldn't be so much unemployment in the U.S. right now.

AMEN BROTHER!!!!!! That's UNION brother. :bows:

[woaface]

Dude, if you find flaws, don't walk away get them fixed and GET A DEAL!!!

[hitchhiker]

Car held hostage by those building them, go figure!

Oh well.

Some thoughts, probably too many... :nono:

I guess that my new Car is still being held hostage by those building them, go figure! :censor:

Sabotageing the business and industry of their employer and screwing over
waiting buyers really makes me want to support them; NOT!

If I didn't want a MM so much I would cancel my order and file a claim for
damages for being jerked around like this.

I guess I'll get my car when these spoiled people decide that they damn well feel like returning to their cushy jobs.

My occupation (Software Engineering) is not protected by a union and is being revaged by the hoarde of Indian and Chinese parasites. :puke:

Our American so called government continues to sell us out (middle class)

I wonder how much bridery money India and China are spreading around?

Watch out UAW and CUAW - India is now showing their Tata line of vehicles in international auto shows and China is currently ramping up to produce several MILLION cars a year by 2010. The only reason Canada produces so many former American cars is cheaper labor and the weak Canadian Dollar. That obviously won't last much longer. :argue:

Enjoy your 4 day weeks and inflated wages while you still can. :shake:

I wonder when Wal-Mart will start selling cars! :censor:

I had hoped for a pleasant distraction (my New MM) from the wholesale
corruption and decay that is the current state of our Once Great Union.

My MM will probably be the last new car that I will buy. I have several anyway.

The seeds of our end are now being sewn in Washington, DC on a daily basis
by those who will later live behind guarded gates while the former middle
class is left to learn the streetwise ways of the underclasses and sociopaths.

The 'largest generation' will find the well dry when they need it most!

Better get those survival skills honed in time! :argue:

What the Democrats give away to buy votes the Republicans will gladly sell to
the highest foreign bidder! :shake:
I hope and pray for the Next American Revolution. :rock:

I've already purchased my land in the semi-remote hills; Have you?

Ahhhhhhhhh Marauder, an automotive heritage from a time where nobody would have dreamed that our own leaders would bring about our downfall
in the process of satisfying their own short-term greed!
Best Regards, :beer:

The Hitchhiker

[hitchhiker]

AMEN BROTHER!!!!!! That's UNION brother. :bows:
Nothing subtle about it...

My new car is being held hostage by the CUAW - period! :nono:

[RCSignals]

I guess they got their $100,000 a year and 4 hour work days.

It's a Government job?

[bigslim]

Nothing subtle about it...

My new car is being held hostage by the CUAW - period! :nono:
No! Your car is being held hostage by the corporate greed that drives the union. Tell me why a CEO should get millions but then want to take away benefits from a union worker? Please don't get me started!!!!

[merc406]

hitchhiker, don't worry you will get your car. :rock: You bring up some valid points in the long post, :up: but alot of the blame on jobs being lost are about what bigslim has said :bows: , and also the NAFTA :down: agreement that allows for foreign goods to come over here tariff free while our products sold elsewhere get slapped hard with tariffs. :bs: :shot: NAFTA needs an overhaul not today but yesterday. :burnout:

[halucin8]

Wow,

hitchhiker - "My occupation (Software Engineering) is not protected by a union and is being revaged by the hoarde of Indian and Chinese parasites."

hitchhiker - "I am beginning to wonder about build quality in a country famous for harboring criminals, draft dodgers, and an excessive number of French (froggie) people!


You should maybe think about the people you are offending before you start typing.

No offense to you, but d**n!

[Petrograde]

hmmmm......
hitchhiker,.... Sheriff,..... there seems to be some resemblences.

[Haggis]

hmmmm......
hitchhiker,.... Sheriff,..... there seems to be some resemblences.

OUCH!! Low blow!! :eek:

[MAD-3R]

hmmmm......
hitchhiker,.... Sheriff,..... there seems to be some resemblences.


No resemblence. Sherrif isn't that subtle. :lol:

Anyway, I am not going to get into the Union debate, but I am going to say this.

Unions have there place. They protect the rights and safty of the workers, but excesses of the past and shady dealings have tainted the publics view of them.

Hitchhiker, when your car comes in, go over it with a fine tooth comb. Judge it as you would a show car. As for the rebate, when they say "take delivery by end if March", thats normaly to get you in the door. By placeing an order, you SHOULD get it. You might want to talk to your dealer about it. And if he says you will get it when ever you get the car, GET IT IN WRITING!!

[2003 MIB]

Hi David,

I am truly sorry to hear this story. :mad2: Here's what I do when I'm not on this site:
American Society for Quality Certified Quality Manager.
American Society for Quality Certified Quality Engineer.
American Society for Quality Certified Quality Auditor.
American Society for Quality Certified Mechanical Inspector.
I work with drugs now but have been associated with many tier one automotive suppliers.
Yes, the build quality will suffer. It'll be in the details but the pressure will be on to push as many cars through the pipe post work stoppage as possible. Speed equals shortcuts. The vehicles already produced and being held "hostage" were produced prior to the stoppage but by a disgruntled workforce (including inspectors). My advice is to fine tooth comb this vehicle before accepting it. I would also consider refuusing delivery and placing another order. By the time it gets into the production pipeline, things will have returned to normal. I know this isn't very encouraging but I believe it's realistic.
-Dan

[PhkinQk]

I too find the need to speak up here, it's difficult to sit without comment when hearing my Marauder friends talk of other union members like this. Being a union member for most of my adult life, a trainer then organizer and now for the last 10 years the youngest business manager of our union, I know there are many that are against unions and what they stand for. And most of those that are against us have unfounded reasoning. Some say it's because they couldn't get into a union and are mad at all of us for that or others say they were scared because their company threatened their jobs if they ever talked to a union (ie....every Walmart employee), others read bad press on a strike and take the side of management, or even worse they're basing their dislike and even hate toward us sometimes because they've been slightly inconvenienced by a union demonstration, strike, picket or handbilling.

Whatever their reason for those thoughts, we that are in a union know it's the best thing that's ever happened to us, outside of our family.

In most case's the only protection you have as a worker, is a union. Without a union you are an "at will" employee. That means you can be let go or fired at whatever whim the company has. Ask yourself why this country has a middle class, thank the unions. Ask yourself why this country has OSHA, even though they are understaffed and underfunded by the republicans you can thank the unions for it's development. Ask yourself why minimum wage keeps going up, thank the unions. Ask yourself how most all of our highways and big building were built in this country, thank the unions. Make a phone call, thank a union member. Drive most of the cars built in this country, thank a union member. I think stressed my point here....

I know someone will post some negatives about the unions, there are always both sides to a mindset, but all in all unions have helped build this country what it is today more than any single employer or work organization entity ever has.

I am and always will be, a full supporter of any union movement, by any union. I'd have to agree with my other union brothers on this thread and say if you bash Canadians and their unions you're bashing you're own country too. Because almost every International union has US/Canada in their region, hence it being called an "International Brotherhood/Union."

Just remember the "REAL" American way is standing up for what you believe in as well as backing others that are doing it too. That's why we're all here. That's why we all mostly drink coffee and not tea, why we're reading this in English and not German. Our north "American" brothers are standing up for what they believe in, let's support them.

And if it were me and my car was late yeah sure, I'd be pissed. Getting a new car is the American way, it's stepping up in life. It's always a great feeling. And wanting it "now" is the spoiled American way too, I'm guilty of that I think we all are to some degree too. But you will get your car and you'll have it for a long time, this will be a short memory in your head once your fanny is in the seat and you can smell that melted rubber and the need for new tires cause you burn out too much. I know it sucks now, but really you'll not remember this bump at all.

To all the other union brother on here in the US and Canada....many of us are with you....................Fratern ally, Rob :up:

[TAF]

If we had a "Political Forum" I would enjoy the discussion as to why I personally feel that there are more "cons" than "pros" in the present day organized labor structure. I've been on the "management side" of a couple of situations which broke unions in companies that I've been at the executive level of and I couldn't be more proud of how that action saved these organizations and allowed a better and more valued product to get to the consumer.

But...without the proper forum for the discussion or rebuttal to what I've read above...I'll just leave it at that. :up:

[Ross]

OK, I've tried hard, but it's time for me to weigh in on this and answer some specific comments which have been made.

[QUOTE]And most of those that are against us have unfounded reasoning.[QUOTE]

While some may base their anti-union feelings on unfounded reasoning, others are anti-union because we have examined the issue, and see that union activities are not always as righteous as they claim to be.


[QUOTE]In most case's the only protection you have as a worker, is a union. [QUOTE]


Dead wrong. My greatest protection is my ability to act and think for myself. If I am a valuable employee, and have something to offer to an employer, THAT is more valuable than any union. If I am not a valuable employee, then I shouldn't be protected.


[QUOTE]Without a union you are an "at will" employee. That means you can be let go or fired at whatever whim the company has.[QUOTE]


And we may thank God for that, because it works both ways. Not only can I be fired, I can choose to leave as well. Fair is fair. If I want the right to terminate my employment "at will," then my employer should have the same right. Unions want this right only to work one way. I want fairness, and it's not fair if it doesn't go in both directions.


[QUOTE] Ask yourself why this country has a middle class, thank the unions. [QUOTE]


This country was made great, and the middle class was invented, by individuals who were not afraid to be their own men. People who weren't afraid to stand against the crowd, not who needed the benefit of a crowd to get ahead. People like my Daddy (and so many others) who never belonged to a union, who never got rich, but who worked their butts off all of their lives to build a middle class home and family.


[QUOTE]Ask yourself why this country has OSHA, even though they are understaffed and underfunded by the republicans you can thank the unions for it's development.[QUOTE]


This is what unions always do, blame everything on Republicans who believe in the individual, and who dare to say, like the Democrat Thomas Jefferson said, "That government governs best which governs least." Some of us are glad that there is not more government control over our lives. Some obviously want more.



[QUOTE]I know someone will post some negatives about the unions, there are always both sides to a mindset, but all in all unions have helped build this country what it is today more than any single organization or entity ever has.[QUOTE]


Interesting. More than any single organization? How about the military which has fought our wars and kept us free? How about policemen and firemen who protect our lives and property? How about farmers who feed us? How about medical personnel who keep us healthy? How about teachers who send us out into the world with knowledge to compete with? I think that when we are looking at the groups who have helped this country more than anyone else, unions fall somewhere way down the list.


[QUOTE]I am and always will be, a full supporter of any union movement, by any union. [QUOTE]


This is where this kind of thinking becomes dangerous. Just because a union does something, other unions and their members will always support it. Don't bother to think about it. Don't bother to analyze whether the other union is right or wrong, just blindly support them, simply because they happen to be another union. I refuse to be a sheep and fall blindly in line behind anyone without making my own decision in the matter.



[QUOTE]Just remember the "REAL" American way is standing up for what you believe in as well as backing others that are doing it too. [QUOTE]


That is very true, but only IF you really believe in something. If you are merely standing behind someone because they happen to be a member of your group, even if they are wrong, that is NOT the American way.

[sailsmen]

I have nothing againest Unions or it's members.

For me personally I am not interested in collective bargaining. I don't want how much I make to be fixed by another party or my career advancement to be controlled by another party.

I realize that is not for everyone, some would rather pay others to bargain their pay for them.

So long as I am allowed the option to represent myself to determine my pay and career advancement and so long as others have the option to pay someonelse to bargain their pay for them it's "aok" with me. :D

[PhkinQk]

Opinions are so right to those that agree and so wrong to those that don't and thank god we live here and can voice our opinions and have conflicting beliefs.

[sailsmen]

OSHA was started by a Republican President.

If you study the OSHA statistics you will see that for the past 20 years the over whelming majority of accidents were caused by behavior and not the work place environment.

What this means is that for the past 20 years the over whelming majority of work place accidents were caused by the worker and not as a result of an unsafe work environment.

In order to significantly increase work place safety from current levels OSHA must now place safety responsibility on the worker as well as the employer. I realize this will represent a rethinking of OSHA's philosophy but our workers deserve it.

[TripleTransAm]

I am beginning to wonder about build quality in a country famous for harboring criminals, draft dodgers, and an excessive number of French (froggie) people!

Hmmm...
I was beginning to feel sympathy for your case... until this.
I know you're upset, but a large indicator of maturity is the ability to keep one's writing and emotions (especially in a large public forum) under check. Please do examine developing this side of your character, it may help your employment situation in the near future as well.
I hope it works out for you and you get your car soon enough.

[PhkinQk]

Safety and safety training is a huge part of my life and what I preach to both sides. So credit where credit is due my Marauder friend, I do very much agree whole heartedly that safety is the responsibility of both sides, just like in anything in life all must be responsible.....there are as many stupid workers mistakes as there are negligent companies.

But being directly involved with OSHA and it's staff for as long as I have, all I'll say is, if anyone feels OSHA's is a product of the republicans because there was a republican president in office, then I'll just agree to disagree, lol.

[bigslim]

Being raised in a union family (dad, grandfather, great-grandfather), I can truely say that the union is not what it once was. That is because there is greed in the unions too. However, I would not work as a skilled trades worker without a union. Management would have us do things that is not OSHA regulated. I'm sorry if some of you don't care for the union. The truth is the unions have helped change a lot of lives, those in the union and those around big union cities. If the unions die so do a lot of your private jobs. Union workers pour more money in the economy than anyone else. Think about this the next time you bash the union or think about buying foreign.

[woaface]

I'll be in a debate camp this summer, as I was last summer (this is from what point of view I'm watching this thread...ideas for critique). Ross did it right, breaking down an argument bit by bit, not just typing up what he thought to be a good argument. I don't want to base my opinon of Unions on "unfounded reasoning", but that was a nice piece right there:beer:


No wonder he's a Lawyer, a damn good one I'm sure:up:

[Ross]

No wonder he's a Lawyer, a damn good one I'm sure:up:


Be careful James, I might send you a bill! :eek:

[merc406]

Here it is Bigslim :beer:

[MainEngDwarf]

After 14 years in the Navy(now a disabled vet). I've spent the last 9 years working in manufacturing and now in electric generation. I've had the opurtunity to work both in and out of union work places. As contorted as this may seem I believe that it depends on the industry or the employer wheather or not a union is needed. I've seen unions so large that they have lost track of the workers needs and care more about the "union" then the people they are supposed to represent. On the other hand I've seen places that would benefit from union representation. I guess as individuals we should examine the facts of a union/management confrontation and choose to support the cause we believe in, not what we are told to accept. When unions first began there was a great need for them, and in some instances that need still remains. In other cases Unions have outlived there usefulness.

[Petrograde]

I've seen places that would benefit from union representation.

Amen! there are pros and cons to working in a union shop. I grew up in Cleveland. Half of the men in my family worked at the Ford Engine plant (2 generations) the other half worked at the ore docks on the lake front (3 generations, I would've been the 4th, but it closed :fire: Japanese steel is cheaper I guess :fire: )

I am currently working for a gov't contractor fixing Army helicopters. No Union, No sick days, No job security, and if you take more than 15 hours of 'personal' time in a quarter you get written up! God help you if you even mention the word 'union' unless you are talking about a hydraulic connector. :P

Could we use one? Maybe. But, when the ore dock my Dad and 2 uncles worked at closed, the union (my Dad worked there 36 years) was no where to be found. :mad2: The union 'approved' seperation package was about enough to make the car payments, and maybe the water bill.

So, I have a little heartburn with the union. Yes, they can help the average Joe, but it seems to me lately that they just line their pockets.

just my 2 cents