Bare Block Preparation

[ajdereicup]

Soooo someone acquired a '94 teksid block and is wanting to make a beast out of it. But need to get the machine work done first. Anyone have any links or anything to places to read on how to safely grind down any casting flash from the block to help the oil on its return path and how to safely grind down the sharp edges to prevent it from cracking? I know I know let the machine shop do their thing first. But I want to have it all ready for when the bore it so that when they clean it it gets all the aluminum shavings completely out and I don't have to clean it again somehow.

The 400 safe RWHP I could pull out of the stock block won't be enough for me hence the preparing and building of something fully forged ready to take a lot of power

And opinions on forged rotating assemblies would be greatly appreciated. I'm thinking of building it for around 1000hp to be on the safe side not planning on getting too close to the 1000 number with it though. I've been looking at MMR and Modular Head Shops setups for the 1000hp.

And I know I'm going to **** trannys and rear ends if I don't build them to handle it too before its stated.

Thanks guys

[ajdereicup]

Maybe if I can somehow find all the parts the certain companies have listed in their kits for cheaper then get them balanced for reasonable that'd be even better. This is of course when I have the spare cash to buy the parts. I just need to get the block machined as soon as I can because it has a little surface rust inside the cylinders (the teksids have a steel sleeve in the cylinders hence why an aluminum block can rust in that spot)

[Curless]

First of all, just take a die grinder to the areas you wish to prep...no big deal. Do not waste your time cleaning the block before it goes to the machine shop, they are going to make a way bigger mess than you are.

You set up can easily make 1000 crank horsepower, stoke it baby! 5.0 or 5.3 either way, use good parts. J.E. / CP / Wiesco poistons, good h beam rods, nice stout crank (4340) and you will be fine!

[ajdereicup]

Almost along the lines of this

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PDFs/Engine%20Block%20prep%20by%20S tandard%20Abrasives.pdf

Except more geared towards the modular motors and if possible the teksid

I know I'm going to have to drill a coolant hole in the block to work with the 2v heads too

[ajdereicup]

First of all, just take a die grinder to the areas you wish to prep...no big deal. Do not waste your time cleaning the block before it goes to the machine shop, they are going to make a way bigger mess than you are.

You set up can easily make 1000 crank horsepower, stoke it baby! 5.0 or 5.3 either way, use good parts. J.E. / CP / Wiesco poistons, good h beam rods, nice stout crank (4340) and you will be fine!


I'm figuring going to around a 5.0 then just running a lot more boost through the KB maybe even upgrading to a larger KB then the 2.1. And running a set of trick flow heads. I'm shooting for around 700-800hp once all said and done.

Yeah I don't mean like cleaning the oil off of it I know they'll deal with it. I just want to make sure I don't take the die grinder to certain parts of the block that might potentially make it weaker.

[Curless]

Just use your head. Only smooth things out, don't re shape them. Get rid of the casting flash and that is all....truthfully it really does not matter. Hot oil will flow!

[ajdereicup]

Alright that should be easy enough thanks. Any ideas on the sharp edges to keep from the stress cracks or whatever?

I just don't want to have the engine die because it starved of oil because it wasn't draining back quick enough

[sailsmen]

"This is of course when I have the spare cash to buy the parts."????
You are looking at a very, very, very expensive project.
Good Luck.

[ajdereicup]

Well I got enough cash in the bank right now to pay for it all. But I don't WANT to spend it all at once. I'd rather not raid my savings like that. I'm figuring around $3k for the whole engine and another $2 for the heads.

[Curless]

Well I got enough cash in the bank right now to pay for it all. But I don't WANT to spend it all at once. I'd rather not raid my savings like that. I'm figuring around $3k for the whole engine and another $2 for the heads.


You are not even close with machine work and labor to actual cost....:bigcry:

[ajdereicup]

Im doing the labor myself lol. Machine work I'm figuring around 400 at most. Not any hard stuff is needed. Just clean it and bore it. The rotating assemblies are about $2k. The small parts will add up but not super much

[sailsmen]

You will need a whole lot of luck and that trans you have won't make it thru the first pass,:lol:

[ajdereicup]

Lol I have luck. I'll take bets on wether the tranny blows first or the rear end

[lji372]

Depending on what tires your running my money is on the trans:P

Good luck with your build:beer:

[ajdereicup]

And I have 3 books on the way to my house currently that run through rebuilding mod motors and building monster mod motors

[ajdereicup]

Depending on what tires your running my money is on the trans:P

Good luck with your build:beer:
Pretty sure when its done it'll be needing some M/T slicks:beer:

[MOTOWN]

You need to figure on a whole lot more cash for your budget! or buy a crate motor and save a ton, you cant build a forged engine, for the cost of buying one in the crate.

And honestly your budget for parts and labor is very unrealistic.

[lji372]

And I have 3 books on the way to my house currently that run through rebuilding mod motors and building monster mod motors

Hmm.... This makes me wonder if zack bought a book on building a turbo 4.6:eek:


:wave: zack!

I know your lurking:lol:

[ajdereicup]

http://www.modularheadshop.com/ERE-500023C.aspx
^^^Little over a grand for forged internals (and missing some things)

http://modularmustangracing.com.tempw ebsite.net/cartgenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=298&cid=1
^^^$2099 for the parts to make a fully forged short block.

Like I said missing certain parts. My guy at the machine shop might even be able to part a kit together for cheaper but I know MMR is know for record breaking modular cars. Buuuuttt I heard their service can be bad at least for the short blocks. Don't know about the rotating assembly kits

[MOTOWN]

Who is this Zack you speak of???????? has he cleaned his MAF and IAC lately? LMAO!

[MOTOWN]

http://www.modularheadshop.com/ERE-500023C.aspx
^^^Little over a grand for forged internals (and missing some things)

http://modularmustangracing.com.tempw ebsite.net/cartgenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=298&cid=1
^^^$2099 for the parts to make a fully forged short block.

Like I said missing certain parts. My guy at the machine shop might even be able to part a kit together for cheaper but I know MMR is know for record breaking modular cars. Buuuuttt I heard their service can be bad at least for the short blocks. Don't know about the rotating assembly kits

You do realize 2K wont even get you a forged rotating assembly (crank/rods/pistons):confused:

[ajdereicup]

Any idea what I should be looking at as far as cost of boring and cleaning? Its not a "performance" shop they rebuild stock engines all the time and do custom work on the side plenty of the time so they don't have the prices that "performace" machine shops have yet they know what they're doing and I've know people that go to them and had my heads for my mustang done by them for very reasonable

[sailsmen]

http://www.modularheadshop.com/ERE-500023C.aspx
^^^Little over a grand for forged internals (and missing some things)

........................

"Price: $1,849.99"
You are pulling our chain!

[ajdereicup]

You do realize 2K wont even get you a forged rotating assembly (crank/rods/pistons):confused:


That's what is in the links I posted.

"This is everything you need except a block to assemble a complete fully forged shortblock, this kit has the same parts as the MMR STROKER Street Mod 1000S shortblock but in a do it yourself kit.Available in all piston oversizes for 2V, 3V and 4V applications. Specify Block Type in comments section at time of order "

"Includes:

1500 HP Forged Stroker Steel Racing Crankshaft ( 8 bolt only) by Kellogg 100% US made - NOT CHINESE like the inferior EAGLE brand.
MANLEY 4340 Forged H-beam Rods with ARP Bolts
MANLEY Forged Pistons with tool steel Pins (any compression ratio)
Total Seal Rings
Clevite Performance Rod and Main bearings1 year Warranty"

:D

[ajdereicup]

"Price: $1,849.99"
You are pulling our chain!


Well it'd be a little over $2k after the options I'd choose. And it doesn't include the bearings

[ajdereicup]

There's 2 ways building engines can cost insane amounts of money.

1. You let someone else do it all for you or even just find all the parts for you

2. You don't know what your doing and you blow it up once your done building it

Sure they're not dirt cheap especially with the mod motors but they're not as expensive as many people make it out to be

[ajdereicup]

But like I said I'm going to be doing as much of the work myself as possible (because I like doing this stuff except when its an extreme headache or I don't have the time/abilities) so that'll help keep the build cost down. Granted I'm going to buy some tools I don't have already but this isn't going to be the last engine I build with having my drag Mustang and all so I look at it as just an excuse to spend money on buying tools I'll use over and over again

[MOTOWN]

That's what is in the links I posted.

"This is everything you need except a block to assemble a complete fully forged shortblock, this kit has the same parts as the MMR STROKER Street Mod 1000S shortblock but in a do it yourself kit.Available in all piston oversizes for 2V, 3V and 4V applications. Specify Block Type in comments section at time of order "

"Includes:

1500 HP Forged Stroker Steel Racing Crankshaft ( 8 bolt only) by Kellogg 100% US made - NOT CHINESE like the inferior EAGLE brand.
MANLEY 4340 Forged H-beam Rods with ARP Bolts
MANLEY Forged Pistons with tool steel Pins (any compression ratio)
Total Seal Rings
Clevite Performance Rod and Main bearings1 year Warranty"

:D

Thats the price BEFORE you get everything you need, which aint bad if its legit!

[ajdereicup]

^^^That's just missing small things. Mainly some bolts and other engine things like oil pump plugs etc that doesn't need to be forged (granted going to be a high volume oil pump.) So not terribly expensive things. And that setup is rated for 1000hp. They got even stronger setups but they're more expensive and I don't plan on going that crazy

[sailsmen]

Well you are doing the research, ordered the books, etc.
Most things of this nature are more complicated, time consuming and expensive then we think they are when we start out.
You are enthusiastic, just don't give up! You will end up with a heck of a fun car.:D

[ajdereicup]

Lol I know theres plenty of things that go wrong that you don't plan for etc. Like I said I've gone through plenty of crap on my Mustang. It's just a lot simpler on it. Nothing but a belt for an alternator and a few wires and a few tubes for the coolant. This car has a lot more technology and crap in it and I don't want to strip it like the Stang because I want it to be a street car still at least at times

[MOTOWN]

^^^That's just missing small things. Mainly some bolts and other hardware that doesn't need to be forged. So not terribly expensive things. And that setup is rated for 1000hp. They got even stronger setups but they're more expensive and I don't plan on going that crazy

That price isnt bad at all, but there goes your 2K budget! and you still need cams, chains, tentioners, valve springs, head gasgets, head studs,main studs,, your heads redone, oil pump, etc

Just trying to give you a realistic idea of what this will cost you, just be prepaed for what your about to take on.

[ajdereicup]

I meant 3k on the block overall and then 2k on the heads separately. I don't know if I said that before or made it unclear I'm a little sleepy right now

[ajdereicup]

Cause the trick flows come fully assembled for 2k IIRC so that'd knock that out.

I have the main studs already in the mail along with a windage tray. I forgot the side bolts for the mains though crap. The ones that go through the side of the block.

[MOTOWN]

I meant 3k on the block overall and then 2k on the heads separately. I don't know if I said that before or made it unclear I'm a little sleepy right now

That sounds more realistic goodluck with the build :banana:

[ajdereicup]

I really appreciate the help guys. It's going to be kick ass when its done even though it'll take me some time but I don't want to rush it and make a mistake

[1 Bad Merc]

Did you check into the cryogenic block treatment that people are doing? It's supposed to make the block harder so that when they machine it they can get the tolerances closer. Helps to prevent main bearing cap walk when you are under a power load.

They also have the same treatment listed for the rods and pistons. Makes them harder and able to handle stress better. You should really check this out!

[Loco1234]

If you are planning on boost then you should look into Ceramic coating on pistons & teflon (coated) skirts

[Curless]

Hmm, just curious...how much are the timing components???

[ctrlraven]

Are you staying 2v heads or going to 4v? Going to 5.0 with that block is fairly easy, you just need some big bore pistons, manley or another type of forged rod and can use a stock 03/04 cobra crank.

I'm going the same route but staying NA and starting with a FRPP Boss50 iron block.

If you are going to 4v, I have some great big bore low compression pistons that I need to sell asap! http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=84750

[LANDY]

You will end up spending a lot more than the amount you posted. I have a stock bore and stroke teksid and it was $4500 with me providing the rods. Thats just the shortblock

[ajdereicup]

I knew of the cryogenic brake rotors and them doing it with other stuff didn't know they were doing it with the blocks and engine components. It doesn't screw up the aluminum? The things I've heard them doing it to was steel.

Timing components are around $400 first site I looked at. But that's stock I'm probably going aftermarket with that too to get more adjustability with the cams.

Ceramic coating them? Like they do with the headers? Interesting very interesting.

I'm sticking with 2v heads.

How much power can the stock Cobra crank handle? IIRC somewhere around 500 or 600 right?

Do you mind telling me what you spent that on? If something was a lot more expensive then I'm thinking? I'd really appreciate it.

Like I said I really appreciate the help guys. I'm planning on making this into a money maker. Might need a quieter exhaust on there though so people don't know it when I rumble up :D

[ctrlraven]

Could make a fair amount of more power with going to 4v heads... just saying. lol

A true 03/04 4v Cobra forged crankshaft is good to at least 1500hp.

I don't know how much the crank was, I bought a package deal from someone (Boss50 block, forged crank, forged rods, forged pistons, etc etc.). I've seen most go for $500-800.

A Ford reman 03/04 cobra shortblock would end up being a lot cheaper for you than to build up the motor. I had thought about just doing a simple rebuild and keep on rolling but I wanted to make the car a lot more fun than it has been over the years I've had it. More cubes = more fun.

[LANDY]

You want a money maker, LS swap it.....

[ajdereicup]

Lol I know but I already have the SW headers on it for 2v and for some strange reason I keep wanting 2v even though I know theres more potential with a 4v. Hell even with the B heads I got with the engine I could probably make more power then the stock 2vs.

Hmmmm very interesting about the cobra crank. Isn't it a kkelog crank?

Meh LS's aren't my thing. Sure they're great motors and can make tons of power cheap. But I don't want a Frankenstein car with my Vic. Plus you'd be able to tell right away it's an LS engine if you pop the hood or someone crawls under your car. I don't want to play with that at the track. The mod motor I can conceal most of it pretty good at least from looking up at it from underneath. The KB sits right on top so you can't see it from the bottom and is fairly quiet unless you get on it. When I intercool it at the same time as swapping the engine for the built one I have some plans to hide the heat exchanger too. I don't plan on popping the hood once it's all done anywhere near where the track guys are. The hood latch is broken if you know what I mean...

[GreekGod]

Which Teksid block do you have (what is it out of)?
The front wheel drive blocks have a different bell-house pattern (Lincoln Continental). I'd hate to see you get it machined and find out it won't bolt to the 4R70W. Also, make sure the 2V heads are compatible with your block.

==============

[Baaad GN]

I'm not totally up to date on all the new changes they are doing to engines but if I was going to spend the money your talking about I'd seriously look at 4 valve heads, I know what my son has spent on his engine (insane amount) and the figures your coming up with wouldn't have gotten his car outta the garage! Go slow my freind and be sure the changes are going to do what your hoping for, there is no refunds in this game! Talk to the guys' who have done it already and not some ad's or articles from some magazine, remember they have no skin in this game other than selling parts and or engines.

[ajdereicup]

It's a teksid from a '94 Mark 8. So it is RWD. And the 2v heads will bolt on I'll just need to use a specific timing chain cover and an older style belt setup and accessories from a panther.

I know it's going to cost me. The 2v Trickflow heads are going to cost me more then the shortblock rotating assembly but they're really going to shine with all the boost that'll flow through them. If I was going to swap to a 4v setup I'd have to get new headers (currently have stainless works), new blower intake so the Kenne Bell would fit on the 4v's and would have them ported like no other. But I'd already have the heads because I'd like using the B's because they have dual intakes for each cylinder. They suck for low end usually but they really love boost. So it'd cost me to go to a 4v setup too and it'd make it more complicated for me.

Plus then people'd be really confused about if my car's a Marauder. They already have issues understanding when I tell them no I have a 2v engine the Marauders had a 4v head. Can't help them to be confused about that :D


I've been doing tons of research still and think I've decided on who I'm going to be purchasing the parts from as far as rotating assembly heads etc. The heads are Trickflows and they come with custom cams Ford GT40 rockers the cams degreed ETC all ready to just bolt onto the engine

[BlkMamba24]

It's a teksid from a '94 Mark 8. So it is RWD. And the 2v heads will bolt on I'll just need to use a specific timing chain cover and an older style belt setup and accessories from a panther.

I know it's going to cost me. The 2v Trickflow heads are going to cost me more then the shortblock rotating assembly but they're really going to shine with all the boost that'll flow through them. If I was going to swap to a 4v setup I'd have to get new headers (currently have stainless works), new blower intake so the Kenne Bell would fit on the 4v's and would have them ported like no other. But I'd already have the heads because I'd like using the B's because they have dual intakes for each cylinder. They suck for low end usually but they really love boost. So it'd cost me to go to a 4v setup too and it'd make it more complicated for me.

Plus then people'd be really confused about if my car's a Marauder. They already have issues understanding when I tell them no I have a 2v engine the Marauders had a 4v head. Can't help them to be confused about that :D


I've been doing tons of research still and think I've decided on who I'm going to be purchasing the parts from as far as rotating assembly heads etc. The heads are Trickflows and they come with custom cams Ford GT40 rockers the cams degreed ETC all ready to just bolt onto the engine

How long do u think this build and swap is going to take you? Sounds like fun ( expensive fun but fun none the less). Can't wait to start my own build soon :cool4:

[ajdereicup]

All depends on how long my wallet takes to open up. I've got all the time in the world 'cause I took off work for a little bit but don't really want to spend all my savings on building engines but I'm already bored of not working so looking at some jobs that pay way better then my last job just have less home time. If I decide to go with one of those I plan on having it done by the summer of next year all put together dropped in and tuned.

Won't be to the full amount of power yet because the tranny being stock and rear end (besides the 3.73s already in it) so it'll be on the line if not over the line of blowing those up and because I'm going to have to get a larger Kenne Bell to reach the levels I'm looking for but that'll be a little down the line once I build the tranny and rear end so I don't have to worry about them and then I'll be cranking up the power in steps so that way yeah it'll be nice jumps in power levels but not going from where it's at now to double it. It'll enable me to kind of get used to the added power in increments.

So like I said if I get bored enough the engine should be done and swapped by the summer. The whole project overall getting it cranked up and the rest of the driveline to handle it will take me a year or 2 probably.

[ajdereicup]

So ended up with another block. Bought this bundle today for a hair over $2k. Brand new pistons, rods with arp2000 bolts, crank, and bearings and Teksid block with 44k miles fresh from the machine shop bored .020 over. Setup should handle 1500 hp so will be well overbuilt. Now to sell my other teksid and parts I was collecting.

http://scontent-a.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xpa1/t51.2885-15/925045_790359544354688_4528641 33_n.jpg

[massacre]

We've had this discussion in the last, but B heads are garbage. You keep saying "they love boost" but that isn't true the C heads outperform the B heads through 95% of the powerband. People used to go with B heads to save money but C heads are so cheap now it is a non-issue. The injector placement on the B heads is a mistake unless you are John Mihovetz with Accufab money lol.

[ajdereicup]

Going with trickflows heads no 4vs :D