Emission testing, need advice.

[Motorhead350]

My car keeps rejecting the system... HA. In other words it will not fail, the computer will not read. We discussed to go back to stock, but last week I had an issue with the Xcal2 and I fear the worst, maybe not the worst, but it's pretty bad. I plugged in the tuner, it made the noise when it turns on with no display. So I disconnected the tuner, plugged it back in and got NOTHING. It would not turn on or make the "turn on" noise.

The only way it could be worse would be if I went back to stock running horribly and could not return it to what Zack setup.

Now the car has to go to a garage with a receipt saying what's wrong. I know the tune has bypassed the O2 sensors and a few other things to run perfect as is. So now I cannot turn it back to stock because my Xcal2 is not functioning.

Is there any other option other than buying another tuner and setting up a dyno tune for emissions? Actually going into a shop. I fear this is the only way to pass and this could mean big bucks. I also fear I will lose the current tune (which is GREAT) and I do not wanna lose that tune if I need a new Xcal and dyno tune.... but my dumbass is thinking it's the only thing I can do.

Opinions please.

Thank you.

[jwibbity]

check for bent pins on your port???

[SpartaPerformance]

Also check for a blown fuse for the OBD port circuit.

[justbob]

Your only cheap option, after you address your connection issue, is return the car to stock. Tim has been working on mine as well as many others for over a month and is close to a cure, so I hope.. My plates expired in Oct...


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[ajdereicup]

Anyone of you IL guys try the thing I did to get emissions exempt yet? I wanna see if it worked for you guys too if you decided to go that route. justbob you should really be able to get the exemption on your car with all the stuff done to it

[Motorhead350]

Anyone of you IL guys try the thing I did to get emissions exempt yet? I wanna see if it worked for you guys too if you decided to go that route. justbob you should really be able to get the exemption on your car with all the stuff done to it

I drive too much to do that, but thanks for the suggestion.

[ajdereicup]

No mileage limit if you fill it out right. :dunno:

[justbob]

No mileage limit if you fill it out right. :dunno:

From all I have read and phone conversations with the IL emissions and the USEPA the following is quite clear.

Show car: must say so clearly on the declaration page from your carrier, not just your agent, that it is only insured to go to shows, and to return home. Kinda hard to explain that one at midnight.

Race car: even easier, car is no longer legal for street use, and is trailered. Even harder to explain, at any time.

I know you went for race car status, but if I were you I would seriously be investigating whether or not you are insured if in a wreck and found guilty of disobeying limitations set fourth in your policy. The ones I have spoken to are high up on the ladder and actually took their time addressing my special issue, the issue that is not addressed, converting to a manual. IL had zero answer as its a grey area, they referred me to USEPA who actually only has one guy in charge. Super nice guy, well informed, and agreed fully that it is a grey area. He replied that they would have to look at it as tampering, the most generic of all..

He went over some options with me that I don't qualify for (hardship mostly), and gave me a number for "outreach", a tech line ran by master mechanics that only accepts calls from ASE certified mechs regarding vehicles that refuse to pass. He went on to say that they may indeed deem it good to go and I would be exempt for those particular CELS after I prove all monitors are functioning, OR he said they could be bullheaded and require the automatic be reinstalled as certain trans sensors do in fact impact emissions (torque load). He has seen it go both ways for others with special circumstances.

Seriously, look into your insurance, way too many $100,000.00 cars out there to collide with, and I'm not jeopardizing my home in a lawsuit over a dumb car.

BTW You went by me on swift road a couple months back. Sounded mean man.




Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

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[Motorhead350]

So go to a mechanic and get paper work saying the car is ok? It will be hard to sell that to the emissions people when my computer will not communicate. There are ten things to communicate with, two of which are working, the rest is not. So it's not like my computer system is 100% failing, 20% is.

In the end, I think it's in the tune. The only solution seems to be to get a few tune to get the EPA to F-off and change it back after it passes.

Is this the best solution?

[justbob]

So go to a mechanic and get paper work saying the car is ok? It will be hard to sell that to the emissions people when my computer will not communicate. There are ten things to communicate with, two of which are working, the rest is not. So it's not like my computer system is 100% failing, 20% is.

In the end, I think it's in the tune. The only solution seems to be to get a few tune to get the EPA to F-off and change it back after it passes.

Is this the best solution?

So you don't have a communication issue?? I'm confused..

You say 20% working. Do you mean to say "supported" or "ready"? Next question obviously 80% (or 8 monitors) "not supported" or "not ready"?

Communication is just that, if it didn't communicate, it wouldn't tell you squat.

If any of this is true then give up, it's in the tune and turned off. You will need a revised tune or a stock one.


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[MMBLUE]

Dom..Just move. No emissions BS here in Florida and other states.

If you live in the regulation states, you get what you get.

[Motorhead350]

Here are my test results....

Comprehensive Component Ready

Fuel System Performance Ready

The rest are NOT SUPPORTED....

Engine Misfire, A/C Refridgerant, EGR Flow, Catalytic Converter EFF, Heated Catalyst, Evaporative Control System, Heated Oxygen Sensor, Oxygen Sensor, Secondary Air System... All NOT SUPPORTED.

Also, my Xcal2 is not working at all now. It will not turn on.

There is a OBD fuse or something I need to look for? Is there a way to test the tuner to see if it will still turn on? I bet it's car. I have been having some electric issues lately.

Thanks for your help guys!

[ajdereicup]

Hmmmm very interesting. I was worried that if I did it as a race car when I walked into the DMV they wouldn't give me the renewal sticker because they'd consider it not a street car but when they gave it to me I didn't even give it a second thought and they probably just have it as emissions not needed or something not that it isn't a street car? I need to look into my insurance policy stuff like you said try and figure it out to make sure I'm good.

Thanks man I didn't see you must've not been in the MM

[ajdereicup]

You need them set to supported. Nonsupported doesn't fly with the testing centers anymore. I don't remember exactly which ones they look for but there's specific ones. Let me try and find my sheet I think he circled which ones are needed

[Motorhead350]

So, I could tell a tuner "Turn this EPA crap-o-la on for testing in a new tune." and I should be good? I literally just need this crap turned on?

[justbob]

Here are my test results....

Comprehensive Component Ready

Fuel System Performance Ready

The rest are NOT SUPPORTED....

Engine Misfire, A/C Refridgerant, EGR Flow, Catalytic Converter EFF, Heated Catalyst, Evaporative Control System, Heated Oxygen Sensor, Oxygen Sensor, Secondary Air System... All NOT SUPPORTED.

Also, my Xcal2 is not working at all now. It will not turn on.

There is a OBD fuse or something I need to look for? Is there a way to test the tuner to see if it will still turn on? I bet it's car. I have been having some electric issues lately.

Thanks for your help guys!

There is nothing wrong with the car. Not an electrical issue, not a fuse, nothing.

The not supported readiness monitors, ALL in your case are turned off in the tune!

Call the dealer and see how much a factory reflash is if your not talking to Zack anymore? Probably cheapest route. Next up is a new tune.

Do you understand what a monitor does and why they check them and not your exhaust anymore?


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[justbob]

So, I could tell a tuner "Turn this EPA crap-o-la on for testing in a new tune." and I should be good? I literally just need this crap turned on?

Correct. Stand in the very long line. My case, five weeks..

Mike said he knows how. PM me if you haven't a clue who Mike is.

Tim said he is down to just figuring out the Evap monitor and his tune should be good as well.


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[Motorhead350]

There is nothing wrong with the car. Not an electrical issue, not a fuse, nothing.

The not supported readiness monitors, ALL in your case are turned off in the tune!

Call the dealer and see how much a factory reflash is if your not talking to Zack anymore? Probably cheapest route. Next up is a new tune.

Do you understand what a monitor does and why they check them and not your exhaust anymore?


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

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The only problem with this is my tuner decided to quit working. So even if the dealer returned it to stock, I do not think I can get my current tune back in unless Zack emails it to me and I find a way to get another tuner, upload the Zack tune back into the new tuner and get it back in the car.

Is there a way to see what's wrong with my Xcal? It will not turn on all anyway.

Zack is out of the question though. EDIT: Let's leave it at that.

[1stMerc]

If you have the cable, connect the tuner to your pc/laptop and see if it turns on. You can then rule out the OBD port or cable.

[justbob]

You need them set to supported. Nonsupported doesn't fly with the testing centers anymore. I don't remember exactly which ones they look for but there's specific ones. Let me try and find my sheet I think he circled which ones are needed

I would be very curious as well to see the sheet. I know not all OBD2 cars need every single monitor supported, some can also be not ready, but I also know the EGR and O2 If I recall must be ready at the test. I believe the MM uses nine of them.


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[1stMerc]

Dang Bob, that is some serious stuff. Hope you get to keep the manny tranny.

[justbob]

If you have the cable, connect the tuner to your pc/laptop and see if it turns on. You can then rule out the OBD port or cable.

Good call Waymon. Also not sure if they still support the 2's anymore, but maybe call SCT?


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[justbob]

The only problem with this is my tuner decided to quit working. So even if the dealer returned it to stock, I do not think I can get my current tune back in unless Zack emails it to me and I find a way to get another tuner, upload the Zack tune back into the new tuner and get it back in the car.

Is there a way to see what's wrong with my Xcal? It will not turn on all anyway.

Zack is out of the question though. EDIT: Let's leave it at that.

Who cares about Zacks tune if you can't even drive the car?

Call SCT, figure it out, then pucker up and kiss Zacks ass for another one. Or quit being cheap and buy a new Xcal and pay for a tune like the rest of us! LOL :D


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[Motorhead350]

There is a difference between being cheap and being a musician. LOL

Screw it, I will email him. Worst case is I get insulted again.

[justbob]

There is a difference between being cheap and being a musician. LOL

Screw it, I will email him. Worst case is I get insulted again.

Don't forget the difference of 3 kids and ZERO! LOL

No money tree over here..

Check your PM's

Goodnight. Zzzzzzzz


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

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[EMAS]

Yup nothing "wrong" with your car it is communicating just fine or it wouldn't report that the items as "not supported" because they are turned off in the tune.

You can have a performance tune with the required items supported. Turning off the miss fire, O2 sensors, O2 sensor heaters, EGR flow, Cat Con effeciency, and Evap system monitors does not help performance.

[Gigan]

How hard is it to just register it in a state with no emissions testing?

[ajdereicup]

I would be very curious as well to see the sheet. I know not all OBD2 cars need every single monitor supported, some can also be not ready, but I also know the EGR and O2 If I recall must be ready at the test. I believe the MM uses nine of them.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

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Finally found it. Apparently the guy circled all of the nonsupported after I kept complaining about how I passed last time with the same readouts and his reasoning was that possibly they had new computers which made no sense to me and he said they didn't change what they looked for which I found out later wasn't true. He wasn't the happiest nor was I. I do remember him looking up previous tests for the car from before it was modified and him showing me it on his computer and it showed what sensors weren't disabled. So maybe if you can see the readout on a stock MM you can see what sensors are there from the factory and enable them. Because some of the sensors like I said he hadn't circled that they were looking for originally before he apparently got frustrated enough to just circle them all and say nothing is supported and hand me a book about how to get it fixed

[ajdereicup]

And yeah what EMAS says is right if I'm reading what your saying right. If they're getting readouts saying not enabled it has to be able to be communicating with your computer to be able to test it.

[Motorhead350]

Looks like I will be making some calls tomorrow.

Thanks guys.

[Limited360]

They have a template from the OEM's they compare against, 'not supported' coming up for Catmon or O2 mom implies an aftermarket tune regardless if it's for performance or not. Also if the CVN or Calibration ID doesn't line up they can deny you based on that. Also soon it will be a checksum comparison, which implies if any value is changed the checksum will be different. It's only going to get worse over the next few years.

Best of luck!

[Motorhead350]

Awesome. I love this.

I love the EPA, I love Zack and above all I love having to spend extra $$$ when everything is functioning properly.

So much win.

[1 Bad Merc]

Awesome. I love this.

I love the EPA, I love Zack and above all I love having to spend extra $$$ when everything is functioning properly.

So much win.

Funny I am frickin' winning too! I even bought extra emulators that still dont work (.02's still not showing up) and I am still messing with the tune. I am very sure I have more time and money into passing this then you do since I started this odyssey in early July.

Man up and quit your cryin' or go buy a Honda! :eek:

[Limited360]

All these checks keep me employed and paying my salary. So thanks for coming up with ways to defeat and get around the checks, gives us something to work on for next year to make it even more difficult! *evilgrin* I do feel good knowing I am saving the world from pollution!!

[tbone]

Justbob - You say Tim Barth is working on solutions for our cars and the Illinois EPA Nazi's? That is very, very good news! I was starting to get a little worried about it. Although I just had my car tested so I'm good for nearly 2 more years.

[1 Bad Merc]

All these checks keep me employed and paying my salary. So thanks for coming up with ways to defeat and get around the checks, gives us something to work on for next 4 years to make it even more difficult! *evilgrin* I do feel good knowing I am saving the world from pollution!!

You do know our cars have been compliant for at least 4 years so when we crack the program then you should have some job security.

Your not really saving the world from pollution but if it makes you feel better thinking that then more power to you. :thinker:

[lji372]

You do know our cars have been compliant for at least 4 years so when we crack the program then you should have some job security.

Your not really saving the world from pollution but if it makes you feel better thinking that then more power to you. :thinker:

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!!!!

[Limited360]

You do know our cars have been compliant for at least 4 years so when we crack the program then you should have some job security.

Your not really saving the world from pollution but if it makes you feel better thinking that then more power to you. :thinker:

I do OBDII calibration. I determine if a sensor is present, functioning and passed its check. OBDII is the single source for providing a vehicle with cleaner tail pipe emissions for the life of the vehicle(120k or 150k miles, whatever it's certified to).

The whole concept of OBDII is to turn the MIL on when the vehicle is emitting more than 1.5x the emissions standard the car was certified to, so please explain to me how that process is not helping to save the world from pollution? If you don't pass Inspection your emitting to much emissions, job done in my book.

Keep in mind I drive a car with with no catalysts and no diagnostics for half the crap required, luckily I don't live in a CARB compliant greenie state! :)

[1 Bad Merc]

I do OBDII calibration. I determine if a sensor is present, functioning and passed its check. OBDII is the single source for providing a vehicle with cleaner tail pipe emissions for the life of the vehicle(120k or 150k miles, whatever it's certified to).

The whole concept of OBDII is to turn the MIL on when the vehicle is emitting more than 1.5x the emissions standard the car was certified to, so please explain to me how that process is not helping to save the world from pollution? If you don't pass Inspection your emitting to much emissions, job done in my book.

Keep in mind I drive a car with with no catalysts and no diagnostics for half the crap required, luckily I don't live in a CARB compliant greenie state! :)

Sorry you are a diagnostic OBDII Calibrator/Technician (?) because I really dont like you guys right now :eek: Nothing personal but this stuff is becoming a pita!:)

To me the whole concept of testing cars is just a state money grab deal. It's a way to reward some companies that donate to their political campaigns and allows them to employ some political workers under the guise of helping clean the enviroment.

If the states were serious and really wanted to clean-up the environment then they would be testing every vehicle (bus, Semi, motorcycle) that rolls down the highway. Most modern cars emit far less pollution today then they did 20 years ago but the trucks just seem to keep on going.

I cant tell you how many semi's I see rolling down the highway spewing all kinds of black crap out of their exhaust pipes day and night but no one seems to care about that.

Couple the trucks with all the gross pollution we get from the local refineries and coal plants (you know the ones that trade tax credits for lighter emission requirements or those plants that are grandfathered in ) , etc. etc. -automobiles nowadays add a very miniscule amount of pollution to our every day environment.

With the way China/Southeast Asia and other third world countries are polluting the environment do you really believe your tiny little fraction of a bit is going to make a worldwide difference?

So my point is that if that concept/belief that you are actually accomplishing something to keep the evironment clean is what gets you out of bed in the morning and gets you juiced to work every day then more power to you my friend! :beer:

[Limited360]

Sorry you are a diagnostic OBDII Calibrator/Technician (?) because I really dont like you guys right now :eek: Nothing personal but this stuff is becoming a pita!:)

To me the whole concept of testing cars is just a state money grab deal. It's a way to reward some companies that donate to their political campaigns and allows them to employ some political workers under the guise of helping clean the enviroment.

If the states were serious and really wanted to clean-up the environment then they would be testing every vehicle (bus, Semi, motorcycle) that rolls down the highway. Most modern cars emit far less pollution today then they did 20 years ago but the trucks just seem to keep on going.

I cant tell you how many semi's I see rolling down the highway spewing all kinds of black crap out of their exhaust pipes day and night but no one seems to care about that.

Couple the trucks with all the gross pollution we get from the local refineries and coal plants (you know the ones that trade tax credits for lighter emission requirements or those plants that are grandfathered in ) , etc. etc. -automobiles nowadays add a very miniscule amount of pollution to our every day environment.

With the way China/Southeast Asia and other third world countries are polluting the environment do you really believe your tiny little fraction of a bit is going to make a worldwide difference?

So my point is that if that concept/belief that you are actually accomplishing something to keep the evironment clean is what gets you out of bed in the morning and gets you juiced to work every day then more power to you my friend! :beer:

Actually OBD compliance is now in effect as of 2014 on heavy duty vehicles both on road and off road. So even a bull dozer has in use compliance testing. To your point of the Asia and other countries.... I completely agree. But we have to take the steps as the leaders. The paycheck gets me out of bed... As stated I drive cars with no catalysts and custom tunes....

I agree that it's laughable when you look at the contribution of emissions from cars compared to any other vehicle fleets it's absolutely minuscule. That being said it still gives me a serious amount of job security. European and Asian companies and countries are following the US lead it's just they are years behind us....

Excuse my grammar and typing, on pain meds and Valium from back surgery... Can I post the picture of the staples in my back or will I get banned for being to graphic?


Yes the compliance is laughable but it will not be getting any easier in the coming future based on the conferences I have been to this year where they discuss how to beat tuners. It makes me upset targeting tuners and modified cars because that Is all I own. Even my daily beater Camaro has no catalyst and is tuned for lean cruise for fuel consumption. If fail a compliance test in a heart beat as almost all diagnostics are shut off and I'm running Australian software on the US!!!


* subject to correct when sober from pain meds *

[vegasmarauder]

Well in Nevada, in the two biggest cities with 90% of the population, basically everything except motorcylces from 1968, yes, 1968 and up HAS to be tested and pass EVERY year. Older cars get the tailpipe test. Diesels now included. It has sent many a classic car to the wrecking yard. You can apply for a variance, but mileage and use is limited. And they got this great idea to set up portable sniffers at on-ramps to sniff every car that goes by. High (possible fail reading) and you get a letter to bring your car in for a state administered test or the plates get suspended. Have to spend minimum of $500 at a licensed emissions repair shop to apply for one year variance. They want to go to dyno tests in the near future to increase the failure/repair rate. I'm all for saving the environment, but if you are driving a clunker it usually means you don't have enough $$$ to get by, let alone fix an older car. Does drive the market for used cars up though. Any used car that passes smog and has working AC pretty much starts at $2K. The ultimate goal is to eliminate special tunes altogether, stock or non-highway use only.

I believe the test here checks 5 monitors, EGR, EVAP, O2 Sensors and CAT effiency. I believe only the EVAP can show not ready and stll give a pass slip, but that may have changed for this year.

Somewhere in your states emission laws (or the federal EPA regs) they should spell out what has to be monitored and ready and what can be not ready. If you find that out, may make it easier to get thru. Also, if the engine is modified mechanically, then the stock tune may throw the CEL because the engine will not be burning clean enough.

I decided not to tune or modify any of my cars to avoid the headaches. I do get envious when I drive a car with a tune though..