Know your enemy

[Last Mrk]

This is from the 05/04 Car & Driver road test of the 05 300C.

Buried to the carpet, the cast-iron 5.7 liter V-8 sounds just like Petty’s old Plymouth (if it had mufflers the size of a milk truck). Posting 5.3 to 60 and 13.9 in the quarter at 102 mph, the 300C runs with Mustangs and 350Zs. It muscles right past anything approaching its size and price, including the 270-hp (and 3480-pound) Acura TL, which is good for 5.7 seconds to 60. It puts the Mercury Marauder on a hauler home to Mama.

Pulling that much sauce from pushrods requires a warm cam, and the 300C shivers noticeably at idle. Still, throttle tip-in is at the driver's whim-anything from a gentle glide to a tire smoker and quiet civility reigns in freeway cruise. The Hemi and the Daimler designed transmission (now built in Kokomo, Indiana) speak the same language and agree on the mission. Upshifts are all but invisible, downshifts are quick and easily provoked. The lever, trans- planted from a Mercedes, has precise movements, and you slap it sideways, just like a Mercedes', for easy DIY shifting.

So this is what you get when you mix Mercedes with Mopar: a big-cigar car with Teutonic athletics and they actually-did-it styling. Apologies due. Some of us couldn't see it, especially when Daimler and Chrysler's marriage seemed at its stormiest. We see it now. The engineers have delivered a first-class design with world class components to the assemblers in Brampton, Ontario. Chryslers haven't set many quality records, and our preproduction sample had a few notable defects such as an ill-fitting hood and driver's door.

[stevengerard]

well its good to see another American brand have some oomph behind it, I'm actually surpised by those numbers as the specs I read had the car just a bit lighter but less hp & tq. Although I don't mind its looks I still prefer the Marauder's styling - more of the good ole American Muscle Car than a trimmed down Maybach - at least that's what the 300c reminds me of.

We have had lots of misses, the demise of the GN, Impala SS, Oldsmobile had some of the best GM cars around, the Lincoln LS was supposed to be a preformer and was a huge disappointment. At least for the next few months we have the Marauder, 300C and the CTS-V.

[bigslim]

I was at the Chrysler dealer today (with my PT) and they were bringing a new 300C in the shop. The sales people were all over it as if it were a Ferrari. I looked at it and thought is was a pretty decent car. A lot smaller than a MM but with more power. It is about the length of a LS. Room wise, it is package pretty good. A fully loaded 300C will set you back between $37,000 and $40,000. I will be waiting to line up against one just too see how it is.

[stevengerard]

oh yeah, I forgot the new GTO, but I consider that more of GMs idea of a Honda, not an evolution of the real GTO

[hitchhiker]

oh yeah, I forgot the new GTO, but I consider that more of GMs idea of a Honda, not an evolution of the real GTO

I understand that the Pontiac GTO is an Aussie-market Holden Monaro with the 5.7 Stateside engine and other North American content added.

Best Regards,

David

[MikesMerc]

Pretty impressive performance for an american Luxo model right off the showroom floor. I'm glad I decided to get the Trilogy blower. Now I hope to run into a few unsuspecting 300C owners and make them cry:)

[Smokie]

This is from the 05/04 Car & Driver road test of the 05 300C.

Buried to the carpet, the cast-iron 5.7 liter V-8 sounds just like Petty’s old Plymouth (if it had mufflers the size of a milk truck). Posting 5.3 to 60 and 13.9 in the quarter at 102 mph, the 300C runs with Mustangs and 350Zs. It muscles right past anything approaching its size and price, including the 270-hp (and 3480-pound) Acura TL, which is good for 5.7 seconds to 60. It puts the Mercury Marauder on a hauler home to Mama.
http://superdave369.home.comcast.net/300C/300CInfocard02.jpg

Chryslers Claims 0--60 mph are more modest than Car & Driver's, amazing how much better the test drivers have gotten since they tested our car at 7.5 sec 0 to 60. I know we have some very smart members here; so please help me.... does 6.3 to sixty translate to a 13.9 1/4 ????

P.S. I get it, the reason Chrysler claimed a full second slower 0 to 60 is because they want people to believe the car is slower than it really is.

[THE_INTERCEPTOR]

Damn that 5.7 and its low-end torque.... :(

I do agree with bigslim though, lets wait until they come out and we get a MM lined up against one at the stoplight.

[Logan]

2.82:1 rear gear ratio... I'd be yankin' those in a hurry...

[Bluerauder]

. A fully loaded 300C will set you back between $37,000 and $40,000.
The spec sheet on the 300C shows an MSRP of $32995 with the 5.7 Hemi. What options do they offer to drive it up another $7K?

I suspect that many of the Chrysler crowd will opt for the 3.5 SOHC. It'll be interesting to see just how many of the 300C big boys they can actually sell at the 37-40K range.

Personally, I don't like the 300C styling ... the word "ugly" comes to mind especially around the grill and front end. The MM is still a best value and options appear readily available for those seeking those prime ETs.

[merc406]

I was at the Chrysler dealer today (with my PT) and they were bringing a new 300C in the shop. The sales people were all over it as if it were a Ferrari. I looked at it and thought is was a pretty decent car. A lot smaller than a MM but with more power. It is about the length of a LS. Room wise, it is package pretty good. A fully loaded 300C will set you back between $37,000 and $40,000. I will be waiting to line up against one just too see how it is.

I heard they started at 23k, no?

[woaface]

Manufacturers tend to be more conservative in their numbers 0-60.

I think TAFs MM might have something to say to a 300C when it pulls up close:up:

[Fourth Horseman]

That's it. I've got to get my stage 1 stuff in, double quick. :)

[Marauder57]

I saw a couple on the transport truck on the highway....drove next to it for a few minutes.....the 300 is nice looking.....but not the allure of the MM at least for me.....but nice non the less....the more big engine 4 door sedans with rear wheel drive...the BETTER! :up:

[the fat bastid]

it looks like something you are supposed to be driven around in instead of doing the driving yourself.

[MYSTA KANG]

Do any of you remember back in 99 when dodge was suppose to come out with the Charger in 2 verions, 2 door and 4 door...........we all know what happen to that. Many Mopar fans thought that whould be the turning point for Dodge B-body production #'s. I felt like they would have competed with the Impala SS if they would have gone ahead and produced this car. Just think if they had this car on the market now with the viper engine or the HEMI. Now that im on a roll what would be great if they had a special production of the 426 HEMI in them.
Calm down.......back to reality.

The engine is good to me and I want a car that have a nice one. But the looks are very important also. I think the SS looks good and with the combo of the engine and the name it sold good. The MM had all the above, engine, looks and comfort. That 300 is ok to me, but when i look at it, I didnt have the same feeling that I had when i seen the MM. I agree it looks like more luxury than muscle.

[bubba]

I got my doors blown off by a 300 yesterday on I-75 near the Tech center. From a 60 roll I could not touch him. My MM is totally stock. I will either need to do some mods or go purchase the Chrysler.

[FordNut]

Ugly is my first impression. But it's also too small. Shouldn't be considered in the same class as the MM. Maybe in the LS/Jag class. Just because it's rear drive, 4 door, V8, the biggest thing made by Mopar/Benz doesn't mean it is in the same class with the biggest thing made by FoMoCo. We're in a class of our own!

[sailsmen]

13.9 1/4 = 5.1 0 to 60.

[woaface]

I got my doors blown off by a 300 yesterday on I-75 near the Tech center. From a 60 roll I could not touch him. My MM is totally stock. I will either need to do some mods or go purchase the Chrysler.
Mods bubba...mods. I think the 300C has a nice rear, but the front just doesn't demand respect like the Marauder's does. With the money it would take to get one of those, if you modified your MM instead, you'll be blowin' by so quick, you'll take his breath away...quite literally:up:

[rookie1]

Personally, I don't like the 300C styling ... the word "ugly" comes to mind especially around the grill and front end. The MM is still a best value and options appear readily available for those seeking those prime ETs.
It looks better in person but it has sort of odd proportions.

[darebren]

i priced up one fully loaded for $36k online, but did I read right, it has a 2.82 rear end ratio? that's what it said online anyway...

but, i do think it looks cool... the front is a bit semi-ish though

[Fourth Horseman]

Does anybody but me think that its "multi-displacement" system is a lame idea? It shuts off up to four cylinders at idle and cruise? :rolleyes:

Otherwise the power-train looks great. I imagine the exterior styling would grow on me if I was around it all the time, but my first impression is :puke: Still, to each their own.

[sailsmen]

I modded at least 1/2 dozen Chrysler muscle cars in the 1970's. Hard to beat them at the track.

I like alot of the styling they have been doing since the Viper came out.

But I have some serious reservations about Chrysler durability and quality.

Can anyone comment based on personal experience that Chrysler's are now up to standard. :banana:

[TAF]

Can anyone comment based on personal experience that Chrysler's are now up to standard.
I know for a fact that the new Durango is nice. :up:

And its paint ('specially in Black) is MUCH better than ours. Fit & finish on the interior is MUCH improved over previous Chrysler products I've seen. To get a better experience, though...get a better driver than I had....you'll enjoy the ride more.

[FordNut]

Just got back from the auto show. Yes it is UGLY, in person or in photos. So is the Caddy. The MM puts them to shame.

But the Ford GT steals the show. Left a big wet puddle from slobbering all over it. That's why they have it roped off!

[dok]

I modded at least 1/2 dozen Chrysler muscle cars in the 1970's. Hard to beat them at the track.

I like alot of the styling they have been doing since the Viper came out.

But I have some serious reservations about Chrysler durability and quality.

Can anyone comment based on personal experience that Chrysler's are now up to standard. :banana:

The 3 cars I had prior to the MM were all Chrysler products. 93 Intrepid, 96 & 00 LHS's. All 3 had the air conditioning compressor go bad shortly after the warranty had expired. The 2000 had other problems associated with the air conditioning and would have cost over $2,000 to fix.

[Krytin]

Does anybody but me think that its "multi-displacement" system is a lame idea? It shuts off up to four cylinders at idle and cruise? :rolleyes:

Otherwise the power-train looks great. I imagine the exterior styling would grow on me if I was around it all the time, but my first impression is :puke: Still, to each their own.

I agree. Caddy flopped with their 8-6-4 motor back in the 80's and even though engine management electronics has improved exponentialy (did I spell that right?), turning off cylinders in pairs is still going to lead to problems for what apears to be a solid motor.

I still don't like the looks of it - my $0.02.

[Bluerauder]

Posting 5.3 to 60 and 13.9 in the quarter at 102 mph, the 300C runs with Mustangs and 350Zs.

Motor Trend, May 2004 shows quite different numbers for the 300C at "5.8- 0 to 60 and 14.27 in the quarter at 98.56 mph (price as tested in MT was $36,690)". My opinion of it's degree of ugliness was not changed by the full page front on view in the article. Of course, Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder.

Same issue of Motor Trend shows the following specs on the new GTO "5.4- 0 to 60 and 13.85 in the quarter at 101.41 mph (price as tested in MT was $33,495)". Will have to see this one up close to make a determination of it's styling; but it seems kinda Plain Jane to me.

[Bigdogjim]

I think it strange that Car & Driver used a Marauder in the box comparisons and our cars go out of productions in 2 months.

Car & Driver?/ Day late and a dollar short?

[Stew]

I like the Marauder, but the 300C just kills it for a similar price.....

[woaface]

That can be fixed VERY easily, and without exceeding the base price of the 300C...new or used.:banned:

Besides have you seen the interior? :puke:

Oh, I've seen two out on the road now...(or the same one twice) the nose is just as ugly in person...the back I like...but the front looks like my car and a frog...

[UAW 588]

I seen a 300C on the road this weekend. Looks like *****. :puke: Go with your safest bet. A Marauder. :up:

[jgc61sr2002]

I like the Marauder, but the 300C just kills it for a similar price.....


Stew - It's your money buy whatever you like. :cool:

[deerejoe]

lets check back and see how it (300C) fared.

Time sorts things out.

[TAF]

I like the Marauder, but the 300C just kills it for a similar price.....
There are many problems with the 300C...just a few are...
1) It's a Chrysler
2) Autoweek says they plan to sell 100,000 in the first year
3) There is no real distinction between what will be the queen of Budget Rent-A-Car (the SOHC) and the Hemi
4) It's butt-ugly

I welcome the opportunity to line up with one...corner with one...pump gas next to one and see which gets more attention.

[RCSignals]

I think it strange that Car & Driver used a Marauder in the box comparisons and our cars go out of productions in 2 months.

Car & Driver?/ Day late and a dollar short?
I agree Also, Daimler Chrysler (there is no such company as "Chrysler" any more) is marketing the 300C as a luxury, "out on the town" car, not a performance car.
If what C+D says about exhaust tone, and "cam" shake at idle is true, they were probably sent a "warm" car for testing. Not unusal for "Chrysler" in days gone by.

Loud exhaust and cam shake at idle are not marks of a "luxury" car.

The 300C also has a lot of electronic controls, for suspension and stability, that could prove to be a nightmare later on, as well as the "displacement on demand" system.

In reviews it seems some of this can't be turned off, and in one review the "shift it yourself" mode was over run by automatic shifting anyway.

[junehhan]

I saw a couple on the transport truck on the highway....drove next to it for a few minutes.....the 300 is nice looking.....but not the allure of the MM at least for me.....but nice non the less....the more big engine 4 door sedans with rear wheel drive...the BETTER! :up:

I agree with that statement! Let's hope this RWD large sedan trend continues. Mayby GM will get their asses on the bandwagon finally, instead of selling those FWD poseurs. The new GTO looks like a rental car if anything..............

[Haggis]

I like the Marauder, but the 300C just kills it for a similar price.....


...but at least the Marauder is an American car. Chrysler today is nothing more then a sellout. IMHO.

[duhtroll]

Yep - built in Canada. :P

-A

[Haggis]

Yep - built in Canada. :P

-A


Close enough for Government work. :rolleyes:

[prchrman]

They are kinda homely (truck front end) but hey nice concept and RWD with a V8...I do think they will smoke us stock but so will several cars...so what big deal anyway...$ = zoom...>$ = >zoom...Ford, GM, Chrysler, Honda, etc. none have paid any of my bills or any other thing so next car I buy will be for what suits my budget and body not what I have loved in the past...willie

[Ross]

The only Chrysler I ever owned was a 1968 Fury with a 318. That was a great car, but that was the old Chrysler.

[rookie1]

Based on the sum of it's parts and amenities it appears that it would be a great vehicle. Late model Chryslers(with the exception of their minivans a category where they are the undisputed king) unfortunately, suffer from the whole being less than the sum of their parts. I drove for about an hour on I65 with a dark charcoal 300c and couldn't quite put my finger on what i didn't like about it. The nose obviously seems out of proportion with the rest of the car. there is some styling trickery around the beltline and below the A pillars and something is just "off" the way the C pillar hits the roofline. I kinda like slab shouldered designs and I will say it is somewhat unique even taking into account the CTS-V. Maybe the oddness will go away once they start selling more of them.
You can't really argue that the option sheet is alot fuller than the one on our MMs and I don't think the longevity of our aluminum motors is comparable to cast iron but that's not why I bought my car.

[mrjones]

[QUOTE=woaface]Mods bubba...mods. With the money it would take to get one of those, if you modified your MM instead....

I looked at one at my dealer the other day. It was a 300C Hemi and loaded up pretty nice. It had several options that weren't available on my car when it was built, like Satellite Radio, HID headlights, heated seats, and a moonroof, and the sticker was $36XXX. It wasn't much more than a thousand bucks more than mine. I thought it was a pretty good deal. If I were going out today and buying one at sticker price, I'd probably pick the 300C for the engine. But, I bought my Marauder in Jan for $23,500!! I love it. Just ain't gonna be racing any Hemi powered Dodges anytime soon.

BTW, if I were gonna buy one of those Dodges, I'd get the Magnum. I'm a station wagon kind of guy! My dealer has got in an SXT, but not the Hemi powered one yet.

[Bluerauder]

I seen a 300C on the road this weekend. Looks like *****. :puke: Go with your safest bet. A Marauder. :up:
I agree. Saw a 300C on the road today. In my opinion, it is about the ugliest thing on the road next to the Honda Element and the Toyota Scion. None of them inspire the thoughts of a sleek or good looking car/vehicle. Boxy, chunky, bloated ... those are the words that come to mind.

The 300C should be :banned: as an environmental eyesore.

[RCSignals]

Yep - built in Canada. :P

-A
Yes, by FORD. In Canada where Ford has been building automobiles since 1904.

The plant may even be farther south than some other Ford plants in the US.

[Marauderman]

I can't believe I'm so late in reading this thread and saying sumpton--

If I read correctly--it's a race to see who runs against one--I'm thinking it's more between me an Haggis who get to challenge and see the results---but apparently there are others as well....TAF and .....

So , whom ever it is--PLEASE let us know-- "Put on a trailer back to MAMA " :bs: .........Tom

[gja]

If I see one and they wanna play I will give it the pimphand, but good.
I am NOT stock and they will go away knowing they got a smackdown.

[Haggis]

I can't believe I'm so late in reading this thread and saying sumpton--

If I read correctly--it's a race to see who runs against one--I'm thinking it's more between me an Haggis who get to challenge and see the results---but apparently there are others as well....TAF and .....

So , whom ever it is--PLEASE let us know-- "Put on a trailer back to MAMA " :bs: .........Tom

I'm still looking for the most disappointing car to hit the market this year the new and dis-improved thing that they call a gto. But, if I come across a 300C imatation Hemi I guess I will have to show him whats what!!


Andrew I am not picking on you, but at least when they convert the money it is still in Dollars not Marks.

[jaywish]

Does the 300 have an independent rear?

That's the thing I really miss in the panther cars.

Jay

[TripleTransAm]

I agree. Saw a 300C on the road today. In my opinion, it is about the ugliest thing on the road next to the Honda Element and the Toyota Scion. None of them inspire the thoughts of a sleek or good looking car/vehicle. Boxy, chunky, bloated ... those are the words that come to mind.

The 300C should be :banned: as an environmental eyesore.


I saw one last night... not the most attractive thing, but styling is always subjective. From the side, it has this 'leaning forward' kind of stance.

Of course, because of all the press and marketing, lots of people are asking me why I didn't get one instead of my Marauder... these same people who never knew what a Marauder was until they saw mine. Score one for Mercury's Marketing department (hey, maybe they're relatives of that guy at STAP that routes the wiring harnesses!).

[Fourth Horseman]

Does the 300 have an independent rear?

That's the thing I really miss in the panther cars.

Jay

Yeah, I have to agree. After years for driving cars with independent rear suspensions, the single axle in the Marauder really took some getting used to. Sort of took me back to my high school days when I drove a '76 LTD. :)

I hope that when Ford finally retires the Panther ('07? '08?) that whatever design they replace it with has an independent rear suspension. I know the drag racers will probably laugh at me, but I spend most of my day driving on Salt Lake's horrible roads, not drag racing. :)