Head removal

[STRAN]

Re-cap: I recently realized my MM has developed the bad valve issue. I have lined up a machine shop and now just have to remove the heads and take them in.

I am looking for any advice, cautions and the like.
Is this really hard? I checked my favorite DIY site for cars and of course I need special tools, have to pull the engine.

I do know I need a gasket set and new head bolts.

Help! (Ina small squeaky voice)

[fastblackmerc]

Re-cap: I recently realized my MM has developed the bad valve issue. I have lined up a machine shop and now just have to remove the heads and take them in.

I am looking for any advice, cautions and the like.
Is this really hard? I checked my favorite DIY site for cars and of course I need special tools, have to pull the engine.

I do know I need a gasket set and new head bolts.

Help! (Ina small squeaky voice)

If I were you and attempting major work I'd get a Ford Shop Manual. I haven't looked recently but there are usually some on eBay for less than $75.00.

[STRAN]

Dig it. I use alldatadiy.com. Suppose to be taken from shop manuals but I doubt it.

[Zack]

Buy this:
http://bit.ly/1evURUv

[Zack]

Let the exhaust manifold nuts soak for days
Use a lot of heat on the egr tube
Work slowly
Time the engine correctly the first time!
I've done almost 10 of these repairs, piece of cake if you're mechanically inclined.

Also...make sure the head bolt holes are not full of oil, it can cause the bolts to never torque down

[RacerX]

Engine removal and Engine assembly (reverse order for disassembly/install):

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36 049&d=1380128465

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34 239&d=1368061032

[massacre]

New head bolts, torque wrench and angle meter are in your future.

[STRAN]

Do I really have to pull the engine out?

Zack, thanks for the advice, bought the head kit thingermagaig

Got the torque wrench, need to get angle gauge.

Thanks RaceX. Will chi out those links and print as needed.

[Zack]

Lol what is an angle gauge?

[RacerX]

He meant Torque Angle Gauge. For the TTY bolts.

http://c.shld.net/rpx/i/s/pi/mp/16843/2203650828?src=http%3A%2F%2Fme diabargains.net%2FProductImage s%2FB00AMEMXJA.jpg&d=575429fcb754d3bfe56f5b9024f5 bb09d225fb0b&hei=549&wid=549&qlt=50,0&op_sharpen=1&op_usm=0.9,0.5,0,0

[Zack]

He meant Torque Angle Gauge. For the TTY bolts.

http://c.shld.net/rpx/i/s/pi/mp/16843/2203650828?src=http%3A%2F%2Fme diabargains.net%2FProductImage s%2FB00AMEMXJA.jpg&d=575429fcb754d3bfe56f5b9024f5 bb09d225fb0b&hei=549&wid=549&qlt=50,0&op_sharpen=1&op_usm=0.9,0.5,0,0

That's definitely not necessary.

Do you use that....for real?

[RacerX]

I don't... :D I just hit them with an impact gun until the bolt heads are nice and rounded...:P

[massacre]

That's definitely not necessary.

Do you use that....for real?

Yup.
On stock Modular head bolts I follow the procedure, never had a problem.

[STRAN]

So if I get the most of that gauge it aligns the wrench with the bolt?

[RacerX]

So if I get the most of that gauge it aligns the wrench with the bolt?

No. The bolts are TTY (torque to yield). They actually stretch a tiny bit when torqued down properly. This is why you shouldn't reuse them. Once you have them torqued down in the proper sequence, the last stage is to torque them an additional x amount of degrees. That gauge, that attaches to the wrench, will show that.

[STRAN]

Ok. I understand. I do like tools. Hmmmmmmm.

[RacerX]

Ok. I understand. I do like tools. Hmmmmmmm.

Cool, you'll really like Zack then... :D







:lol:

[Zack]

^^^^^Zack Approved


...and you don't need the angle gauge. If you can read a clock you can turn a bolt 90 degrees FOR FREE

[a_d_a_m]

You don't need to remove the engine if it's just the #8 cylinder that's lost compression. I did the 'Zack repair', sort of detailed here: http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=82117

[justbob]

^^^^^Zack Approved


...and you don't need the angle gauge. If you can read a clock you can turn a bolt 90 degrees FOR FREE


Bingo.

I'm a big time tool junkie and see zero use for that.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[massacre]

Hey it works for me. Don't like it? Don't use it, plain and simple.
As long as he gets the heads installed correctly, who cares?

[Zack]

Because bob and I are big fans of saving money

[a_d_a_m]

In that case...
http://www.safetyserve.com/ax/Media/Assets/en-US/Img/Insurance/GEICO/geico_lizard.jpg

[Zack]

Speaking of Head Adam....

[massacre]

Because bob and I are big fans of saving money

I hear you man, I really do. But those angle meters are like less than ten bucks, hell I borrowed mine so it didn't cost me anything. I'm always a little freaked out by stretchy bolts so I use it. It's def not necessary but I feel more comfortable using it on these bolts only.
But different people do things differently, as long as the end result is the same that is what matters IMHO, that was my point.

I also remember you telling me years ago that degreeing cams wasn't necessary because it was too costly.

[RacerX]

Speaking of Head Adam....

Uh oh... Who owes who? :P

[Zack]

Many good points made.

Adam is dreamy

[STRAN]

^^^^^Zack Approved


...and you don't need the angle gauge. If you can read a clock you can turn a bolt 90 degrees FOR FREE

Free is good.

[STRAN]

You don't need to remove the engine if it's just the #8 cylinder that's lost compression. I did the 'Zack repair', sort of detailed here: http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=82117


What if I plan on doing both heads?

[STRAN]

This is great. All kinds of great info and help and friendly banter. Bonus!!

[Zack]

What if I plan on doing both heads?

Same procedure for the other side.
Pull the heads with the manifolds on, it will make life much easier

[JoeBoomz]

What is the going rate for getting one or two valves (and or seats) replaced on these heads? I have to deal with my cooked #8 this year and get my stock motor running like new again before finding it a new home.

[Zack]

What is the going rate for getting one or two valves (and or seats) replaced on these heads? I have to deal with my cooked #8 this year and get my stock motor running like new again before finding it a new home.

I think I pay about $425 to have both heads reconditioned and both exhaust valve seats in #8 replaced.

[clmrt]

That's not a bad deal it seems. These are pretty reasonable engines to work on.

Timing kit - $450
Head recon - $425-500
Cooling mod - $100ish
New oil pump - $125

Making a little list of things to do as I approach 100K. I've paid $1100 for stupid crap on wifey's jeep, might as well refresh the MM for the same $$ and learn a little more about these engines in the process. Props to you guys who tear into these things.

[Zack]

That's not a bad deal it seems. These are pretty reasonable engines to work on.

Timing kit - $450
Head recon - $425-500
Cooling mod - $100ish
New oil pump - $125

Making a little list of things to do as I approach 100K. I've paid $1100 for stupid crap on wifey's jeep, might as well refresh the MM for the same $$ and learn a little more about these engines in the process. Props to you guys who tear into these things.

You cant change the oil pump without removing the engine. FYI

[clmrt]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[RacerX]

You cant change the oil pump without removing the engine. FYI
Or remove the crossmember... That's a nightmare in itself...

[a_d_a_m]

Speaking of Head Adam....
Uh oh... Who owes who? :P
Adam is dreamy Damn straight...or not. Anyway, we were talking about something else!
http://www.beer-universe.com/images/articles/118/beer-head.gif


What is the going rate for getting one or two valves (and or seats) replaced on these heads? I have to deal with my cooked #8 this year and get my stock motor running like new again before finding it a new home. If you don't have the smarts to remove the cams from the head (and reinstall them) - I didn't - expect to pay more like 300-400 per head. At least that's what I was charged...

[STRAN]

Damn straight...or not. Anyway, we were talking about something else!
http://www.beer-universe.com/images/articles/118/beer-head.gif

If you don't have the smarts to remove the cams from the head (and reinstall them) - I didn't - expect to pay more like 300-400 per head. At least that's what I was charged...

Yummy, that looks tasty.

I will make sure I check with the shop about the cams.

[STRAN]

Good thing there I'd a member who makes better replacements for the crossover plug.

[Zack]

If you heat it with a torch, they come right out.

[lji372]

If you heat it with a torch, they come right out.

Easy out FTW!! :D

[Blk04MM]

I think I pay about $425 to have both heads reconditioned and both exhaust valve seats in #8 replaced.

$125 cheaper here. Saving money FTW

[STRAN]

If you heat it with a torch, they come right out.

A 1/2 to 1/4 socket broke off in it before the accident. I had used heat and pb blaster on that try and the bugger snapped right off and damaged the plug. Subsequent attempts to remove it mangled the opening.
This time I needed to get the broken bit out first. The plug had a firm grip on it. So I used a Dremel and cut the damaged metal out of the way. A punch and ball-peen hammer popped it out. To my joy there is a round hole under he square one. Then more blaster, some heat and an extractor. Took awhile and when it snapped loose I thought I had busted the extractor. Joy of joys it came it.

[vegasmarauder]

My .02 worth. Ref the crossover plug. Every time you take it out change the Oring and then anti-seize on the threads before install. And before even attempting to get it loose, I mix up a 50/50 mix of acetone and Mercon V. Soak the edge of the plug and let it sit. Then I take two ball peen hammers. Hold one on one side of the plug and tap the opposite side of the edge of the plug. Not enough to dent the metal, just enough to shock it. Go all the way around the plug tapping. Then soak it again with the mixture and give it about an hour or so. Use a good hardened 1/4 drive set, not anthing from China or Tiawan. The plug will break free without a lot of force. I have used this for several years and never had to drill a plug out (again).

And I have done 5 MM timing chains so far. I Have been able to get the oil pump out with the pan on in the car. It's tricky.

I take a rag and stuff it in the front of the pan behind the oil pump so nothing can fall into the back of the pan. Then I use a 5/16 flat ratchet and remove the two pickup screen bolts. One (the lower one) will fall into the pan, that's what the rag is there for. Install a new Oring on the tube and install the pump. Before installing the pump, run the bolts in and out of the screen threads a few times until they start in the holes with no resistance. Start the upper bolt in first and run it down finger tight. I put the lower bolt in the flat ratchet and use a hose removal tool (anything with a bent end to hold the bolt in place and gently turn the bolt (I used my finger the first few times, but the bent tool makes it easier to see it the bolt is straight in the hole. If there is any resitance, stop or it will cross thread. I only had one that took about 30 minutes to get in, The others went in easily.

It can be frustrating to start the lower bolt, but is doable..

[Zack]

A propane torch on the cot for 1 minute frees it up every time with no damage to anything

[vegasmarauder]

I'll try that too. Thanks!

[STRAN]

I had tried the anti seize on the crossover plug. Must have used to much because air was getting into the the system and I was having ti constantly burp the car. The problem stopped when I stopped using the anti seize.

The oil pump. I must have missed something, why do I need to pull the oil pump? I get the timing chain guide and tensioners but am on a constrictive budget. Right now my thought is to get the heads done, get the car on the road, revisit these items next winter.

Thoughts?

Thanks for the input Vegas.

[Jeffonebuck]

I had tried the anti seize on the crossover plug. Must have used to much because air was getting into the the system and I was having ti constantly burp the car. The problem stopped when I stopped using the anti seize.

The oil pump. I must have missed something, why do I need to pull the oil pump? I get the timing chain guide and tensioners but am on a constrictive budget. Right now my thought is to get the heads done, get the car on the road, revisit these items next winter.

Thoughts?

Thanks for the input Vegas.

Did you use the liquid or the solid stick anti seize ? I used the stick and just on the bottom few threads


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[massacre]

Stick anti seize is awesome I use it all the time.

[Zack]

The oil pump. I must have missed something, why do I need to pull the oil pump? I get the timing chain guide and tensioners but am on a constrictive budget. Right now my thought is to get the heads done, get the car on the road, revisit these items next winter.

Thoughts?

Thanks for the input Vegas.

You can't change the oil pump unless the engine is out

[a_d_a_m]

The oil pump. I must have missed something, why do I need to pull the oil pump? For what you're doing, you don't need to.

[clmrt]

I mentioned oil pumps earlier in saying these cars were reasonable, cost-wise and mechanically, to work on.

Sorry to de-rail.

[vegasmarauder]

Yes, changing the oil pump is not mandatory, but since it's right there, I do it (and have done it in the car with the pan on). And the problem with the COT plug is the Oring, not the ant-seize. The Oring keeps the coolant away from the threads and air from coming in. I just change the COT Oring any time I take it out. They are cheap and no more coolant weeping into the threads and corroding them. The size is 9/16ID X 11/16OD X 1/16 Dia. No anti-seize should go on the Oring area, just lube it with antifreeze and it put it in slowly.

[STRAN]

Did you use the liquid or the solid stick anti seize ? I used the stick and just on the bottom few threads


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Liquid. After catching up on this thread I think part of my problem was the o-ring and maybe to much anti-sieze. sloppy sloppy.

Ordered a new plug from Jerrry (?) (is that the right name?) and new orings.

[STRAN]

my son and I have been working slow and steady on this as i seem to not have enough time to wipe %*(*(^%#(&%&!

Does anyone know the part number for the crank boly? where I can get it? Yes I did a search and already looked on line etc etc . Having trouble finding it. The head to mine is now alittle rounded and my understanding is I should replace it anyway.

I am having a bad couple of weeks here.

[Jeffonebuck]

Crank Bolt ?,, I have one if you need it


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[STRAN]

Crank Bolt ?,, I have one if you need it


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Sure. Is it new? My impression is it is to be replaced whenever the harmonic ballancer is removed. I will send a PM.

[fastblackmerc]

my son and I have been working slow and steady on this as i seem to not have enough time to wipe %*(*(^%#(&%&!

Does anyone know the part number for the crank boly? where I can get it? Yes I did a search and already looked on line etc etc . Having trouble finding it. The head to mine is now alittle rounded and my understanding is I should replace it anyway.

I am having a bad couple of weeks here.

Yes it should be new.

Any Ford / Lincoln dealer will have one or get one from ARP.

ARP P/N: 156-2501

http://arp-bolts.com/kits/ARPkit-detail.php?RecordID=641

[Zack]

I have never replaced a crank bolt on any of the dozens of Marauders I've worked on.
FWIW....

[Jeffonebuck]

Sure. Is it new? My impression is it is to be replaced whenever the harmonic ballancer is removed. I will send a PM.

It's not new, I'm not sure if you need to go new, sent you a pm


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[lji372]

Liquid. After catching up on this thread I think part of my problem was the o-ring and maybe to much anti-sieze. sloppy sloppy.

Ordered a new plug from Jerrry (?) (is that the right name?) and new orings.

Yep, and it's on it's way:banana2:

[STRAN]

Guess you guys are wondering what happened with the heads. Well..... Stuff. I can not believe it has been 3 months! We were held up a little buy the exhaust header bolts to the exhaust. Broke me loose thou. Intake is off, have paper towels in the holes to keep debris out.

The big deal is the wife says I have to get one of the cars on the road or one of me has to go. Well that would be the 88 civic but I can't stand losing another project.

So I am tossing the distractions, lack of cash, and responsibilities aside and breaking bad on this last hurdle.

So.....what is the link for head removal?

[RacerX]

Cylinder Head Removal:

[Jeronimojc]

Subscribing. Some pics of the work would be great if you get a minute. Good luck!


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[STRAN]

These are pictures I took as reference for when we assemble the engine. This iPad will only let me load one pic per post. The back of engine bay, wipers and cowl removed and I think a few other pieces.

[STRAN]

This is a few days after assembly of the front clip, post accident/totaled. Could not resist.

[STRAN]

Cylinder Head Removal:

Awsome PFD Racer X!

[STRAN]

So tonight we hit the engine with earnest. The tool for the fuel line is the wrong size. But we pulled the alternator and the crossover pipe.

[Jeronimojc]

Great. Looking forward to more updates. Do you already have the cooling mod? If not, you may want to PM Zack for some fittings.

[STRAN]

I don't have the cooling mod. The machine shop said after they are done with the heads I will not have to worry about this specific issue with the valves. However I do it to run as cool as possible. Does the mod help with air in the system? Burping is almost a art form. Lol.

[a_d_a_m]

AFAIK, the mod does not help with air in the system, it just helps coolant flow more freely to the areas where these cars get 'hot spots'.

[STRAN]

Making progress, tonight we got as far as breaking some of the head bolts loose.

[a_d_a_m]

I don't remember if it's been discussed yet, but it would be a good time to check and probably replace your timing guides.

Mine were worn.

[fastblackmerc]

Making progress, tonight we got as far as breaking some of the head bolts loose.

Might be a good idea to run some painters tape across those open intake ports.

[Zack]

Looking good. You can pull the heads with the exhaust manifolds attached, even the egr tube as well.
Makes life much easier.

[fastblackmerc]

Looking good. You can pull the heads with the exhaust manifolds attached, even the egr tube as well.
Makes life much easier.

I'd loosen all the nuts, bolts and fittings first.

[Zack]

I'd loosen all the nuts, bolts and fittings first.

Then whats the point?
When the head is off with all that attached, you have full access to torch the fittings and use a 6 point with an impact.

`

[massacre]

^^^+1
So much easier to remove stuff on the bench than in the car.

[fastblackmerc]

Then whats the point?
When the head is off with all that attached, you have full access to torch the fittings and use a 6 point with an impact.

`

What if he doesn't have an impact or torch? It's easier to apply the force necessary to loosen the nuts and fitting(s) when the head is attached. How can you easily secure the head to your bench when trying to break loose the EGR fitting?

[massacre]

I use some wood and a C clamp?

[justbob]

I will admit to removing my drivers side head with my long tube attached. I will also admit it got awkward and really freakin heavy rather quickly! Far cry from just a manifold though.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[STRAN]

Chose to leave the exhaust manifold on. Have tried to remove them from my truck while still on the engine and gave up. Anyway, going to pull the exhaust manifolds off tonight.

[STRAN]

We used a 2x4 x8' and a chain. While one lifted the other would try and wiggle the head out. The leave rage made light work of the lifting but they were a hassle to get out. What about that carbon on the pistons? Suggestions on cleaning that up?

[STRAN]

A bit worried about the back head bolts, on the bottom. I did not remove they brake booster or the A/C box so lifted the head and wiggled it to a position to pull out those bolts. But how to reverse that process? Do the gasket have a sealant applied? Do not remember seeing any residue.

[justbob]

No sealant. It lines up on the dowels. And yes, put the head back on with them bolts in it.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[Zack]

The ford head changing kit comes with bolt spacers to make life easy for install.
That's a lot of carbon, which suggests you baby the car.
STOP!
Ford makes a carbon dissolver that works amazing.
Can't help you with the part # though

[a_d_a_m]

That really is a ton of carbon on those pistons!

[STRAN]

That really is a ton of carbon on those pistons!

I know! Right!
That is suppose tobe a crate motor from ford that the PO had installed, came up in the ford history on it. I am kind of sweating this, could the carbon buildup cause the lose of compression? Cause I'll tell ya, those valves on number 6 and 8 look fine but for the copious carbon.

Also, someone mangle the studs on the exit end of the manifold.

[a_d_a_m]

I'm not even going to guess what caused it other than I would guess an improper burp led to a cooling issue. Zack or anyone else probably has the correct answer.

[STRAN]

I'm not even going to guess what caused it other than I would guess an improper burp led to a cooling issue. Zack or anyone else probably has the correct answer.

When I first got it I had trouble with burping and it running hot.
There were times when I was so broke ( remember the 'crash' of '09) that I used a low grade fuel, (89).
Regardless of the cause it needs the heads worked, coolant pooled in the cylinders when we pulled the heads off which to me indicates the rings are fine and the problem lies with the heads.
Still am curious about that carbon, that crate engine has about 40,000(?) on it and that is a lot of carbon.

[Zack]

When I first got it I had trouble with burping and it running hot.
There were times when I was so broke ( remember the 'crash' of '09) that I used a low grade fuel, (89).
Regardless of the cause it needs the heads worked, coolant pooled in the cylinders when we pulled the heads off which to me indicates the rings are fine and the problem lies with the heads.
Still am curious about that carbon, that crate engine has about 40,000(?) on it and that is a lot of carbon.

Carbon forms when you drive like an old man.

[STRAN]

Carbon forms when you drive like an old man.

Oops.

The wife is always saying I do that.

[STRAN]

While I wait for the heads to come back from the shop I started to try cleaning the carbon off the top of the pistons. Pictured is a cleaning with PB Blaster, a tooth brush and about ten minutes.
I of course did a little reading. So far I did not find anything to try while the block is still in the car. One guy did it with the pistons in the block using house hold cleaners that were not super nasty, looked a bit labor intensive.

So , anyone care to share carbn cleaning tricks?

[Zack]

I use Ford (motor craft) metal prep with a scotch brite pad

[STRAN]

PB Blaster and a brass wire brush made short work of the carbon build up on the pistons. This was a little more than thirty minutes. (I've Gaut ta 'ave thrrity minua's Cap'n!)

I also soaked the studs on the exhaust manifold for a few days, then wrenched 'me right out. At some point someone cut the bolts of the E manifold and damaged the studs. Plan on treating and painting the manifolds.

If I had the cash it would be time for a super,charger.

[STRAN]

I use Ford (motor craft) metal prep with a scotch brite pad

Hey Zack, you are the man for the cooling Mod. Poked,around for a sticky and such on 'how to' but came up empty. Got a link for me? And what about the fittings? Thanks man.

[justbob]

http://s307.photobucket.com/user/Marauder-Z/media/2011-03-15_15-00-28_375.mp4.html

:)


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[STRAN]

So.... I just take that plug out?

[justbob]

Yes, then tap in the new one evenly with a dab of RTV around the mating surface.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[STRAN]

Just an update. The heads are in the machine shop. Need to get the parts for the cooling mod, at least the rear mod.

[Zack]

I can make you a set today and ship them too

[STRAN]

Went to the You Pick You Save sale today, pulled a throttle cable from a Vic, I think I can make it work and I will not have to worry about the old crushed one failing.

[vegasmarauder]

To use the Vic cable you will need to drill a small hole in the MM bracket to use a screw to hold the throttle end in the bracket. The MM snaps in and the Vic is held in with a screw.

Also, the VIC cable inside the casing is 1/2" shorter so your gas pedal will sit higher off the floor. Maybe you can use a 1/2" spacer between the bracket and the cable to move the throttle end 1/2" closer to butterfly. Then a longer screw/bolt to hold it to the bracket. That should put the gas pedal height correct.

I was messing with the Vic setup but then found a MM cable on Ebay so just got that.

[Jeronimojc]

I have a MM throttle cable. PM me if you are interested.


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[STRAN]

I am getting Jer... Cable, thanks man you rock. I will keep the Vic cable, will have to buy a Vic to go with but don't want to be wasteful. The wife will understand that...right?

I pick up the heads tomorrow!

[STRAN]

Got 'em! The guys at the shop Thursday a few hints my way and scared the crap out of me. Yea I have scat running down my leg.

[STRAN]

Should I paint the sides of the heads?

[Zack]

Definitely not

[STRAN]

Thanks. And thank goodness.

[lji372]

No comment......

[STRAN]

So I have been peeping to put the heads back in. I was going to put the fittings for the cooling mod on before install. Read one post about a cooling mod gone wrong due to improper installation of the fittings. Just a little nervous.

[JoeBoomz]

You could try the rear head cooling mod since you have nice easy access to the rear of the heads. Similar installation procedure but the fittings also bolt into place as opposed to just pressing in.

[Jeffonebuck]

Here is a link,, scroll down till you see the cooling mod fittings and there will be a YouTube video above them
http://www.thechicagogarage.com/forum/marauder-tech/117121-my-5-8-cooling-mod.html

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[justbob]

Don't overthink its easiness.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[Zack]

Install the fittings when the heads are installed.
Map out the hoses and orientation of the fittings with the intake manifold and wiring harness on place.

[STRAN]

Here is a link,, scroll down till you see the cooling mod fittings and there will be a YouTube video above them
http://www.thechicagogarage.com/forum/marauder-tech/117121-my-5-8-cooling-mod.html

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Ok, that helps, a nice write up for sure. Many thanks and the same to the rest of you guys. Could not have gotten this far without the help of MM-net members.

Now, anyone know of a good write up for torquing down the head bolts? I found a few, all different ways of doing it. One said to torque them down then back them off ( how much?) and re-torque them. Doesn't seem right. These bolts are one use, I did not get the ARP bolts (oops) and I did read the ARP info but not sure it will apply to the factory spec bolts I bought.

I bought th parts I needed piece meal and the machine shop chastised me for not getting the had kit. Hind site, I would let the shop buy the head kit as they know what performs the best. Of course I found an exceptional shop here in Bakersfield, land of the damned, based on my gear head friends advice.

[Jeffonebuck]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/23/azyhupu7.jpg. Link to torque specs http://www.torkspec.com/torkspecme.aspx?KI=11-4.6L-281ci-V8


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[STRAN]

CORRECTION, I AM REFERING TO THE BOLTS THAT HOLD THE EXHAUST PIPE TO THE EXHAUST MANIFOLD.

The correct exhaust stud part number is:

RNB-03131
Dorman 03131 - Dorman Exhaust Manifold Mounting Hardware

It is a 10mm (M10) thread. Dorman incorrectly has it as a 12mm.

[Zack]

Exhaust manifold studs are M8x1.25 (the studs that thread into the heads.)
Get them from FORD

[STRAN]

Exhaust manifold studs are M8x1.25 (the studs that thread into the heads.)
Get them from FORD

Agreed, I am referring to the bolts that attach the exhaust pipes to the exhaust manifold. Thanks for the clarification Zack.

[STRAN]

I stopped work. Looks like something is wrong.

The to timing marks on the the head gears seem to be ...... Pointing the wrong way. The LH looks correct. The RH is pointing or oriented in the same direction as the LH. See pics.

TDC, the number one cylinder is at the top of it's stock, or the KEY on the crank is pointing straight up. See pics.

If someone is willing PM me and I will send my cell number, could use some help.

[STRAN]

This is the left hand head LH.

[STRAN]

This is the right hand head RH

[JoeBoomz]

Put the timing marks of the passenger side head sprocket at 11 o clock position. Put the marks of the driver side head sprocket at about 1 o clock. The timing mark on the crank is at 6 o clock (piston 1 TDC).

Confirm your Chain marks have 28 links between them. If there are no chain marks, count from the link on the crank marker 29 links - that should be the one on the head's marker. Same is true for both chains. If not then rotate the cam sprockets to line it up.

Once the timing marks have 28 links between them (you can count either direction), the motor is timed properly.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/27/6enude9y.jpg

I've been meaning to write a quick "to-do" on this process after fighting with it myself last month.

[STRAN]

When I try to position the sprocket it 'snap' into this position. That would be 11 o'clock to the head but not to the vertical center line of the block. I assume you mean 11 o'clock to the head axis.

So when I turn the sprocket it 'snaps' or move 90 degrees, there is no turning it a little at a time. Am I doing something wrong here?

Confirmed, 28 links.

[JoeBoomz]

No that is the work of the springs making it hard to hold the cam in one position. You might be able to get it close by turning it slowly but too far and it will turn quickly as spring pushes the roller off. You can turn the crank either direction a bit to accommodate this difficulty. But don't go too far from TDC because you can't set the timing if your rotation is off.

As long as the timing marks have 28 links between the markers in both directions, you should be good. Install the guides and tensioners and then turn the crank. If no spark plugs are in, the crank should turn nicely 360 degrees with very little resistance.

[justbob]

You need to hold it still. If you don't have the proper wrench get creative. Just keep you fingers clear.. Aftermarket cams at least have a six point in the middle of each to hold with, something Ford should have done..




Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[massacre]

Why do people not remove the followers when trying to do this?
That is hands down the easiest way to do it. Then you are not fighting the valve springs, and no danger of bending any valves. No "safe mode" necessary lmao
I've been doing this a long time. To set up the motor dot -to-dot:

Step 1: remove all 32 followers
Step 2: collapse all chain tensioners, insert pins to hold them
Step 2: put crank at TDC on #1 (&6) cylinder, do not move crank, install crank gears with marks pointing straight down
Step 3: put cams at proper position with key ways pointing at block deck, install secondary cam gears and small chains using links
Step 4: install primary gears using chain links to position primary chains with one link at mark on bottom of crank gear and other link at the marks on primary gears.
Step 5: double check that all marks line up where they are supposed to, tighten cam bolts, pull pins to release tensioners.
Step 6: install 32 followers

That is the simplest way I can describe this process, if you have any questions feel free to ask.
From your pics, bank 1 is way off.

This being said:
Some will say that removing the followers is a waste of time and money, I disagree. I have timed tons of motors and never had any issues and never bent a valve and always had everything work out fine.
You will either spend your time removing followers, or spend your time monkeying around fighting pressure from the valve springs, trying to get everything to line up perfectly, or end up trying to rotate cams with a wrench, which can lead to expensive problems.
The hex in the middle of some aftermarket cams is for holding the cams while tightening cam bolts, not for rotating the cams under valve spring pressure.
The choice is up to you, I prefer to take a little time and money and basically guarantee success.

[STRAN]

I would prefer to use your method, but it think you have a gap in your instructions. 'Remove the followers'. If I understand what a follower is this is the part the cam lobs contact, and the valve springs put tension on them. To remove these I have to remove the cams rockers and so forth, would seem that
re- installing the cams would be easy to screw up the timing between the exhaust cam and the intake cam. More detail on how to remove the followers would be needed and appreciated.

Thanks. David.

[Zack]

Removing the followers is not necessary. Get a breaker bar with an 18mm socket. Have a helper hold the cams in the correct spot while you install the chain and tensioner.
I do this process by myself in under 10 minutes for both sides combined.

[STRAN]

Success!
Definitely a two man job. I did not remove the followers as I was intimidated and don't have all the tools. Taking apart cams was to much for me.

I used a screw driver to hold the chain in place on the crank sprocket so the copper link stayed on the marker. installed the flat guide, RH, used breaker bar to turn the header sprocket and slipped the chain on. Then the curved guide, the tensioner,just one bolt, used a long pry bar (really it was a big screwdriver) and leveraged the tensioner into the guide, rotating it around the bolt pushing the guide and chain into position, my son slipped the second tensioner bolt in.

That is how I pulled it off. I am sure someone more experienced would do it better or easier.

I had to fiddle around with it. Figured I had to hold the chain in place one step at a time starting at the most fix position the crank and finishing at the tension the most adjustable.

[STRAN]

The RH showing the sprocket's orientation and the chain with copper link on the markers or dots.

[STRAN]

The LH sprocket, link and dots.

[a_d_a_m]

Nice work. Wish I would have seen this sooner and been able to chime in - I also used the 'Zack' method. It was a little alarming having to fight the valve springs but everything timed in just fine in the end.

Once I had the chains on, I used a breaker bar to rotate the motor slowly to ensure there was no PTV.

[JoeBoomz]

Wish the chains I just did had those nice dots on them! I had to do the hardcore counting method and marking with a sharpie.

[STRAN]

Nice work. Wish I would have seen this sooner and been able to chime in - I also used the 'Zack' method. It was a little alarming having to fight the valve springs but everything timed in just fine in the end.

Once I had the chains on, I used a breaker bar to rotate the motor slowly to ensure there was no PTV.

AHHHHHHH. I MUST CHK for the PTV. Cross my fingers, already torque the heads down.

[justbob]

Nice work. Wish I would have seen this sooner and been able to chime in - I also used the 'Zack' method. It was a little alarming having to fight the valve springs but everything timed in just fine in the end.

Once I had the chains on, I used a breaker bar to rotate the motor slowly to ensure there was no PTV.


Try it with heavy duty springs. :eek:


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[vegasmarauder]

I see you have the original metal chain tensioners. Did you release the little internal ratchet mechanism to collapse the tensioner? They should be OK if they are the same as when they came off, but if they are too tight it may cause the nylon to come off the tension arms. There is a small hole in the front of the tensioner and you can see the teeth of the ratchet mechanism. You might be able to release it even with everything installed.

By the way, this is a good time to actually replace those guides. They wear grooves into the plastic material and that's the rattle on cold start up. Hate to make you re-do the work, but tensioner guides are relatively cheap preventative medicine part.

But congrats on getting it together right. If the marks are lined up, it's right.

[STRAN]

.

By the way, this is a good time to actually replace those guides. They wear grooves into the plastic material and that's the rattle on cold start up. Hate to make you re-do the work, but tensioner guides are relatively cheap preventative medicine part.

I did not release the tensioner, used a screw driver to hold them back. I recognized the possibility of resetting them to the wrong tension, to tight or loose and thought of a way to avoid it.

As for the gUides they looked to be in pretty good shape with only the leading edge showing wear. I priced them and it was more than I could afford at the time. Don't remember the amount just the sticker shock.

[massacre]

Glad to see you got it all straightened out. From the pics it looks like you nailed it.
I happen to have the tools and can also achieve the same results in the same amount of time.
We all do things differently the right way is the way that works for you.

[STRAN]

Thanks, I need the confidence these days.

[vegasmarauder]

You got the timing marks lined up correctly. That's where 90% of the people mess up. I was doing a MM and talking with someone. Was just about ready to put the timing cover on when I saw one of the timing marks on the crank sprocket was off by a tooth. So all in all you are doing great work!

[STRAN]

I am blushing.

[massacre]

Wish the chains I just did had those nice dots on them! I had to do the hardcore counting method and marking with a sharpie.

I don't understand all of this counting, either.
The primary chains are equidistant no counting necessary.

[JoeBoomz]

Try it with no marks and without taking the chains off. As in the cam covers are still on. Then you need to start counting.

[massacre]

Try it with no marks and without taking the chains off. As in the cam covers are still on. Then you need to start counting.

That is true I guess but I would simply remove the cam covers and remove the chains and start all over.
Again, everyone does things differently but making it harder on yourself and calling it "hardcore" sounds strange to me.
I find that usually only the Panther guys give me grief about my methods, the Mustang crowd seems to be more in tune with getting things exact and taking things completely apart. I'll never apologize for using the proper tools and procedures to get things done.
That being said, I realize that not everyone has the tools or the know-how to do everything properly, sometimes you have to make the best with what you have and I see no problem with that as long as the end result is the same or similar.

just my .02

A funny quote I read once:
"The Modular Ford V8- making mechanics out of regular people since 1992"

[STRAN]

In case anyone is wondering I have stalled again.
First I lost the gaskets to the timing chain cover, I know I had them, suspect they were thrown out by accident. That cost me another 42 bucks including shipping.
Second my wife and I have hit a ruff patch and are trying to sort through it. The Marauder has taken a back seat to all of that.
As soon as the gaskets show I am gonig to get back on it.

[STRAN]

#~%^#*|>~€<¥~€~%,#.?#*|%|#}^#€|^!!!!!!!!! !!

The lower intake. £¥%€€#! Just was not going in easy, so I tried a little harder. Nice. Already have a plan but that is two nights wasted.

[a_d_a_m]

Welcome to the snapped bolt club! I had the same issue.

Drilled out what I could, re-tapped, no problems.

[STRAN]

Well everything I tried failed so I am going with the 'hope it don't leak' method. It is the back passenger corner. Kind of late now, made good progress today. The dip stick stopped me and it was getting dark.

[Zack]

What is leaking?

[a_d_a_m]

I think he is worried about an intake leak from that snapped bolt and, to be honest (since I'm a moron), I would be too. Guess we'll see when the car gets fired up.


The dip stick stopped me I had difficulty with that too. Use a tubing cutter (or a hacksaw if you're good enough, but do file it down and clean it up) and remove some of the tubing at the oil pan end. I left 1/4" below the O-ring to ensure that it would still seal. A helper up top with a hammer may help in getting it 'persuaded'.

You can do this.

[STRAN]

Dip stick is in, I loosened the exhaust manifold.
I am so close I can taste victory. The short list for tomorrow.
Fan.
Overflow tank.
Drain fuel.
New fuel filter.
Scratch my head over the extra bolts.
Grounding strap on back, where does it land?
Need one hose clamp for cooling mod.
One of the vacuum tubes broke at so point. Have I idea to patch it.

[JoeBoomz]

Extra bolts - if they're lag bolts don't use them. Or use silicone.
Grounding strap - connects to chassis right below the wiper cowl on pass side at the top of the firewall.
Vacuum tube - those are getting rare, most radios use microprocessors now. But in the marauder you can usually replace it with a hose, fittings, and some clamps.

[STRAN]

Grounding strap - connects to chassis right below the wiper cowl on pass side at the top of the firewall.
Vacuum tube - those are getting rare, most radios use microprocessors now. .

Ya got me. Tubing, vacuum tubing. The rigid tubing that breaks with age or when handled ruff. The strap, yes, from the fire wall to ...? I attached it to ythe valve cover though I am quite sure it sure go to the lower intake, right to the bolt I snapped off.

[STRAN]

it fired up! I finished assembly today. All I had to do was fix a exhaust leak, 2 minutes.

However, it is throwing a miss fire code, P0356, which the book says is cylinder F.

The airbag has a issue or really just a pos out of a Vic. And the air ride still needs to be repaired.

My long list is finally manageable. Form totaled out to being driven down the street. Yes!

[a_d_a_m]

Nice work!

However, it is throwing a miss fire code, P0356, which the book says is cylinder F. Switch your COP from cylinder 6 to another one and see if the code changes. You may just have a bad COP.

[Blackened300a]

Ya got me. Tubing, vacuum tubing. The rigid tubing that breaks with age or when handled ruff. The strap, yes, from the fire wall to ...? I attached it to ythe valve cover though I am quite sure it sure go to the lower intake, right to the bolt I snapped off.

It bolts to the back of the passenger side head. I saw it when I had my cowl off.

[STRAN]

Taken today, a view I have not seen in years. A viable marauder in my driveway.

[STRAN]

I have to write something, right. Sweet awesome finally oh baby tuners beware.

[STRAN]

Nice work!
Switch your COP from cylinder 6 to another one and see if the code changes. You may just have a bad COP.

Did that first thing and afraid not. The clip on the plug is not broken either, cleaned the plug with electronic cleaner.

It is looking like I have a wiring hare ness issue.

[massacre]

Extra bolts - if they're lag bolts don't use them. Or use silicone.
Grounding strap - connects to chassis right below the wiper cowl on pass side at the top of the firewall.
Vacuum tube - those are getting rare, most radios use microprocessors now. But in the marauder you can usually replace it with a hose, fittings, and some clamps.

I see what you did there

[Jeronimojc]

Buy this:
http://bit.ly/1evURUv



Zack, thanks for the advice, bought the head kit thingermagaig


Guys, which kit was this? The first link expired.
Thanks.

[Zack]

Guys, which kit was this? The first link expired.
Thanks.

M-6067-T46

[Jeronimojc]

Thanks again Zack!

[STRAN]

DONE!!!!!!!

The MM is registered and on the road! As of 4 days ago. Three years of effort and cash.