Has anyone upgraded their Timing Chain Primary Tensioners?

[ctrlraven]

To the cast iron/steel ones that look like these...
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a164/ctrlraven/For%20Sale%20stuff/20140315_110018_zps4izzoedx.jp ghttp://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a164/ctrlraven/For%20Sale%20stuff/20140315_110030_zpsn5r60wh6.jp g


I'm trying to find out if these require a special gasket/seal or if they came with one. Also looking for a part number for the left and right ones from Ford.

[Zack]

Most 03's came with those. They were phased out and replaced with the plastic versions. No gasket necessary on the cast iron units.

I dont know if they are still available.

[ctrlraven]

Most 03's came with those. They were phased out and replaced with the plastic versions. No gasket necessary on the cast iron units.

I dont know if they are still available.

The reason why I ask is because I have seen pictures with a thin metal gasket such as below (I assume it's metal):
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxMjAw/z/rb0AAMXQ1d1TIWLD/$_57.JPG

I am going to replace the tensioners and guides on my stock motor so I can start to enjoy the car again until whenever my motor swap gets done.

[whitey]

Seneca and Richardp just tackled this, try getting in touch with one of them

[ctrlraven]

I think I found the answer to my question:



The Tensioner style may look different than your original style. This newer style was first introduced by Ford in the year 2000 on the 4.6L V-8 and continued through 2004 and perhaps further. It has performed well and makes the timing system installation a little easier. The earlier style is cast iron and has a ratchet system and pounting plate. We have adopted this newer style for all of our 4.6 and 5.4 V-8 engines and the 6.8L V-10 engines. During installation be sure to use a mounting plate under the Tensioner if the original style used one. If the original version did not use or need a plate under the Tensioner then one is not required. Oil pressure leaks and improper Tensioner operation will occur if the plate was left out of an installation that requires one.

So if mine has the plastic type I can just use the metal ones without the plate being needed? If it has the metal ones originally then I just transfer over the plate?

[ctrlraven]

Seneca and Richardp just tackled this, try getting in touch with one of them
I've already been in talks with Seneca ;), he will be molesting my MM very soon. Just trying to line up parts now. No sense in buying parts when I already have something that will work.

[whitey]

I would think that what that means is if the originals were plastic, and you were to install the metal ones, you need the plate that goes with the metal ones. If your replacing the metal ones with plastic, then the metal gasket is not needed any more, like its already molded into the plastic.

[RichardP]

https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1.0-9/154296_10201459644317784_14835 0296_n.jpgNotice the blown gasket on the original.

[RF Overlord]

I'm confused.

Are the "good" ones plastic or metal, do they need the flat plate, and do they have a gasket or no?

[tbone]

New tensioners are listed on Rock Auto. I already bought the guides and plan to buy the tensioners when funds allow. Doing it when I do my Eaton swap.

http://www.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imageurl=http%3A% 2F%2Fwww.rockauto.com%2Finfo%2 FCloyes%2F9-5432.jpg&imagekey=869699-0&width=450

http://www.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imageurl=http%3A% 2F%2Fwww.rockauto.com%2Finfo%2 FCloyes%2F9-5395.jpg&imagekey=962833-0&width=450

http://www.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imageurl=http%3A% 2F%2Fwww.rockauto.com%2Finfo%2 FCloyes%2F9-5394.jpg&imagekey=962846-0&width=450

[Zack]

Ive never seen a plate under any tensioner. Don't use it if it is supplied.

FYI those 'seals' on the plastic units are damaged upon disassembly. There is sufficient surface area without a seal to keep oil in, just by the housing alone.

[whitey]

I'm confused.

Are the "good" ones plastic or metal, do they need the flat plate, and do they have a gasket or no?
It appears that the metal ones need a gasket(what looks like thin metal plate), the plastic ones have a rubber seal built in around the edge. The "good" ones i would assume are the metal ones, as you can see richardp's original plastic ones that the rubber seal blew out.

[Zack]

Again, the metal versions do not need a gasket. Bolt on and go

[ctrlraven]

I'm confused.

Are the "good" ones plastic or metal, do they need the flat plate, and do they have a gasket or no?
The metal ones are considered an upgrade for those who have the plastic ones since the metal ones come with a built in fail safe ratchet in case of oil pressure loss. The metal primary tensioners have no gasket but come with a plate.

New tensioners are listed on Rock Auto. I already bought the guides and plan to buy the tensioners when funds allow. Doing it when I do my Eaton swap.
Yeah Rock Auto has Cloyes as their tensioner brand.

[ctrlraven]

Ive never seen a plate under any tensioner. Don't use it if it is supplied.

FYI those 'seals' on the plastic units are damaged upon disassembly. There is sufficient surface area without a seal to keep oil in, just by the housing alone.
I didn't see a plate on the metal ones either, I took these off the 04 Mach 1 heads I had.

Again, the metal versions do not need a gasket. Bolt on and go
Just want to make sure! Hate to have everything apart and not have the right stuff. :mad2:

[RF Overlord]

Thanks, Zack and Birdman... :up: I know I'll be doing this job one day myself.

Back in the day, when I worked a lot on SBCs and Buicks, Cloyes was a well-respected brand. I suppose like most others now they're made in China and the quality is marginal. :rolleyes:

[massacre]

I also have never seen a gasket used with the metal primary or secondary tensioners and I've done a lot of 4Vs and 2Vs.

[WPG_Merc]

I got all new chains guides & new ratchet tensioners that are fail safe ,Installed when the comp stage 3 cams were put in.
:)

[Marauderjack]

How do you know there is a problem with guides or tensioners??:confused:

I currently have over 256K miles and lately no smoke or noise on startup.......is it ready to BLOW??:eek:

Seriously......I had a bit of smoke every now and then for many years but for the last 6 months very rarely and the rattling noise only at an oil/filter change!!:beer:

HOW LONG DO THESE THINGS LAST??????:bows::bandit:

[tbone]

Yeah Rock Auto has Cloyes as their tensioner brand.

So are these good ones to get?

[ctrlraven]

How do you know there is a problem with guides or tensioners??:confused:

I currently have over 256K miles and lately no smoke or noise on startup.......is it ready to BLOW??:eek:

Seriously......I had a bit of smoke every now and then for many years but for the last 6 months very rarely and the rattling noise only at an oil/filter change!!:beer:

HOW LONG DO THESE THINGS LAST??????:bows::bandit:

Chain rattle at start up when the car sits more than 48 hrs. After the car is warmed up there is an off beat tapping sound coming from the front passenger timing cover area and goes away once rpms are above 1100 rpms. It only does this because once the engine is warmed up the oil is at it's thinnest and will not make the sound at cold as the oil is as it's thickest. Less oil psi at idle will cause the tensioner to lessen the pressure against the guide which will cause slack in the timing chain. If the guides are worn (nylon over aluminum) the timing chain will start eating into the metal after all the nylon material is gone.

You may not hear the noise at idle (if there is one) over the s/c. For me I thought it was an exhaust leak.

Example: See how the chain has ate through the guide? Also see how the tensioner has been worn down as well?
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f141/P71_CrownVic/Ford/IMG_1578.jpg
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=44 811&stc=1&d=1200022938

[massacre]

I swear the early 90s 4V Modular parts were better, I have seen a ton of older engines with high mileage but never seen the chain guides eaten through like that.

[a_d_a_m]

Example: See how the chain has ate through the guide? Also see how the tensioner has been worn down as well?
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f141/P71_CrownVic/Ford/IMG_1578.jpghttp://www.explorerforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=44 811&stc=1&d=1200022938
Ahhhh, that picture brings back bad memories (it was my '02 Grand Marquis). I barely noticed the bad noise associated with the timing guides going, even with this amount of destruction.

[tbone]

How many miles on this motor birdman?

[tbone]

Seriously......I had a bit of smoke every now and then for many years but for the last 6 months very rarely and the rattling noise only at an oil/filter change!!:beer:

HOW LONG DO THESE THINGS LAST??????:bows::bandit:

I had the smoke issue get worse for a while and go away too.

I would also like to know what the average lifespan of the tensioners and guides are.....

[a_d_a_m]

I would also like to know what the average lifespan of the tensioners and guides are.....

FYI/YMMV, I replaced my Marauder's guides at 108k while handling the dreaded cylinder #8 compression loss...when I took the timing chains off, I saw that they were worn down to metal on the very top, nylon still showing on half of 'em. I truly believe I would've been in the danger zone by the time I got to 150k.

I have given my car full synthetic, FL820S filters, and 3000mi intervals for the past five years. Never had the smoke on startup, either.

This was the good one at 108k:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w110/jackiegleason/MarauderHead/100_3654.jpg



Wish I'd taken a picture of the bad one...

[whitey]

As for lifespan, it varies greatly. I was talking to a guy with a silver birch two years ago, he asked if the chain tensioners go bad a lot, i said no, not a lot of talk about them on here and he said it was the only thing that had to be replaced....i forget his exact mileage, but he had around 45k on his. I would say mine started making noise around 155k, marauderjack has some ungodly amount of miles and his are still fine.

[a_d_a_m]

Chain rattle at start up when the car sits more than 48 hrs. I mis-took the A/C compressor clatter on startup as a sign that the tensioners/guides were failing. :shake: I wasn't as smart as I am now, which ain't sayin' much.

[92BlackGT]

hmm, mine always rattles when the engine is cold. it wont rattle on warm start. tensioners?

[whitey]

hmm, mine always rattles when the engine is cold. it wont rattle on warm start. tensioners?

Usually that's the case.

[ctrlraven]

How many miles on this motor birdman?
I'm not sure of the mileage, I came across those pictures on a Explorer/Aviator forum.

I will be taking pictures of mine when I have them replaced in about two weeks.

[tbone]

I'm just going to change mine even though I have no issues. Nothing is too good for The Mistress. :banana:

[ctrlraven]

I'm just going to change mine even though I have no issues. Nothing is too good for The Mistress. :banana:
MMR http://www.modularmotorsportsracing.c om/ sells the metal ones for $180 (pair).
Products - Modular Engine Components - Chains/Timing/Guides and about 70% down the page you'll sell them.

[tbone]

Are the Cloyes ones at RockAuto ok?

[Zack]

http://tascaparts.com/parts/index.cfm?searchText=F6AZ-6L266-DA&make=Ford&action=oePartSearch&siteid=213668

http://tascaparts.com/parts/index.cfm?searchText=F6AZ-6L266-CA&make=Ford&action=oePartSearch&siteid=213668


Im fairly certain these are the correct Ford part #'s

[ctrlraven]

Are the Cloyes ones at RockAuto ok?
They will work but eventually will fail. Also the Cloyes don't look like they have a ratchet on them either which the metal ones come with a built in fail safe ratchet in case of oil pressure loss. The plastic one below looks like it has the ratchet on it.

See RichardP's post

https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1.0-9/154296_10201459644317784_14835 0296_n.jpg
Notice the blown gasket on the original.

[tbone]

Thanks Zack. And Birdman.

I got these in the cart. Nobody talks about the other ones....like in the pics I posted in post #10? Rock Auto list them as left lower, right lower, left and right. 4 total.

http://tascaparts.com/shoppingcart/index.cfm?siteid=213668&retVal=%2Fparts%2F2003%2FMercu ry%2FMarauder%2FBase%3Fsiteid% 3D213668%26vehicleid%3D63414%2 6section%3DENGINE%26group%3DCA MSHAFT%20%26%20TIMING%26subgro up%3DCAMSHAFT%20%26%20TIMING%2 6component%3DTENSIONER%26start row%3D1%26searchtext%3D

[ctrlraven]

http://tascaparts.com/parts/index.cfm?searchText=F6AZ-6L266-DA&make=Ford&action=oePartSearch&siteid=213668

http://tascaparts.com/parts/index.cfm?searchText=F6AZ-6L266-CA&make=Ford&action=oePartSearch&siteid=213668


Im fairly certain these are the correct Ford part #'s
I think you are right, SOHC is showing a Ford p/n to metal ones and the DOHC is showing a Ford p/n for the plastic ones. The V6 models use a totally diffent type of tensioner.

Looks like for 2004 Mustang SOHC 4.6 they used the metal tensioners for the primary. Rock Auto has the metal Cloyes ones
CLOYES 95338 - LEFT
CLOYES 95339 - RIGHT

[tbone]

http://www.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imageurl=http%3A% 2F%2Fwww.rockauto.com%2Finfo%2 FCloyes%2F9-5394.jpg&imagekey=962846-0&width=450

[ctrlraven]

Thanks Zack. And Birdman.

I got these in the cart. Nobody talks about the lower ones....like in the pics I posted in post #10?

http://tascaparts.com/shoppingcart/index.cfm?siteid=213668&retVal=%2Fparts%2F2003%2FMercu ry%2FMarauder%2FBase%3Fsiteid% 3D213668%26vehicleid%3D63414%2 6section%3DENGINE%26group%3DCA MSHAFT%20%26%20TIMING%26subgro up%3DCAMSHAFT%20%26%20TIMING%2 6component%3DTENSIONER%26start row%3D1%26searchtext%3D
The ones we have been talking about are the Primary ones. These other two pictures you posted are of the Secondary ones.

[tbone]

CLOYES Part # 95432 http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/images/Heart.png
Left Lowerhttp://www.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=869699&imageurl=http%3A//www.rockauto.com/info/Cloyes/9-5432.jpg
$30.99CLOYES Part # 95433 http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/images/Heart.png
Right Lowerhttp://www.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=869658&imageurl=http%3A//www.rockauto.com/info/Cloyes/9-5433.jpg

$48.99CLOYES Part # 95395
Lefthttp://www.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=962833&imageurl=http%3A//www.rockauto.com/info/Cloyes/9-5395.jpg
$59.79CLOYES Part # 95394

http://www.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=962846&imageurl=http%3A//www.rockauto.com/info/Cloyes/9-5394.jpg
Right

[tbone]

The ones we have been talking about are the Primary ones. These other two pictures you posted are of the Secondary ones.


Tasca doesn't seem to differentiate between the primary and secondary ones.

[Zack]

They will work but eventually will fail. Also the Cloyes don't look like they have a ratchet on them either which the metal ones come with a built in fail safe ratchet in case of oil pressure loss. The plastic one below looks like it has the ratchet on it.

See RichardP's post

These are Cloyes Tensioners, with ratchet.
Id bet the farm Cloyes makes Ford's parts.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/brand/cloyes-gear/make/ford/engine-size/4-6l-281/part-type/timing-chain-tensioners

[tbone]

All the talk has been on the primarys. Don't the secondarys need to be replaced as well?

[Zack]

All the talk has been on the primarys. Don't the secondarys need to be replaced as well?

NO.

678990

[Zack]

Tom, why are you ordering tensioners if you don't even know what style you have in your car? There is a great chance you have the steel versions if your car is an 03

[tbone]

This is what I am trying to figure out. I guess I'll just have to order them once I take it all apart.

[RacerX]

These are Cloyes Tensioners, with ratchet.
Id bet the farm Cloyes makes Ford's parts.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/brand/cloyes-gear/make/ford/engine-size/4-6l-281/part-type/timing-chain-tensioners

Nice find! I used the metal, ratcheting ones also.

[Zack]

This is what I am trying to figure out. I guess I'll just have to order them once I take it all apart.

The only possible way of knowing ahead of time is to put a bore scope through the cam sensor hole in the timing cover.

[ctrlraven]

These are Cloyes Tensioners, with ratchet.
Id bet the farm Cloyes makes Ford's parts.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/brand/cloyes-gear/make/ford/engine-size/4-6l-281/part-type/timing-chain-tensioners
Its a very good possiblity, Ford has used the metal ones in the 2v 4.6 since 1992.

Tbone,
Look under 2004 Ford Mustang 4.6 SOHC on Rock Auto, they are cheaper there than on Summit.

2004 FORD MUSTANG 4.6L V8 SOHC : Engine : Timing Chain Tensioner Price
CLOYES Part # 95338
Left
$32.79

CLOYES Part # 95339
Right
$34.99

[tbone]

I'm taking my sweet ass time once I start my Eaton. I'll figure it all out as I go.

[tbone]

Tbone,
Look under 2004 Ford Mustang 4.6 SOHC on Rock Auto, they are cheaper there than on Summit.

2004 FORD MUSTANG 4.6L V8 SOHC : Engine : Timing Chain Tensioner Price
CLOYES Part # 95338
Left
$32.79

CLOYES Part # 95339
Right
$34.99

Oooh. Nice find. But, are they the right ones? :confused:

How come the secondarys don't need replacing? No wear on those?

[tbone]

I know my questions are irritating. After I do this build, I will learn a lot.

[ctrlraven]

Oooh. Nice find. But, are they the right ones? :confused:

How come the secondarys don't need replacing? No wear on those?
I can't see why they wouldn't work, look exactly the same and are listed as being on other 4v vehicles. With all the research I have been doing the past week I have come across one person who said they replaced the secondary. No one else seems to need to or they end up getting rid of the car before they fail. lol

I know my questions are irritating. After I do this build, I will learn a lot.
Your questions may help someone else down the road. When I got the metal ones off the old heads I had I only thought they were all metal, didn't know they were plastic ones as well. Learn something new every day.

[Krytin]

All questions lead to answers and so far all of the answers in this thread have been good 411!
I'll be taking down PN's for future reference.

[ctrlraven]

I may go ahead and order the metal Cloyes from RockAuto since they are not super expensive. Return them if they are wrong or re-sell them if they are correct but not needed.

[tbone]

I may go ahead and order the metal Cloyes from RockAuto since they are not super expensive. Return them if they are wrong or re-sell them if they are correct but not needed.

Ditto.......

[ctrlraven]

Played the matching game

These are the stock Ford metal ones I have
(Left unit, Right unit)
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a164/ctrlraven/For%20Sale%20stuff/20140315_110018_zps4izzoedx.jp g
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a164/ctrlraven/For%20Sale%20stuff/20140315_110030_zpsn5r60wh6.jp g

These are the Cloyes metal ones
Left Cloyes #9-5338
http://www.carpartsdiscount.com/auto/archive/pictures/115586/1000/3/P/EF1343/engine_timing_chain_tensioner_ oem_9_5338_95338.jpg
http://www.carpartsdiscount.com/auto/archive/pictures/115586/1000/1/P/F09B2A/engine_timing_chain_tensioner_ oem_9_5338_95338.jpg

Right Cloyes #9-5339
http://www.carpartsdiscount.com/auto/archive/pictures/115584/1000/2/P/62BD62/engine_timing_chain_tensioner_ oem_9_5339_95339.jpg
http://www.carpartsdiscount.com/auto/archive/pictures/115584/1000/3/P/EFDF47/engine_timing_chain_tensioner_ oem_9_5339_95339.jpg

Winner winner chicken dinner! The oil passages on the back match.

[Vortech347]

The only possible way of knowing ahead of time is to put a bore scope through the cam sensor hole in the timing cover.

That is a damn good idea. Can you get any decent view to see if the guides are worn down? I've got a really nice scope too.

Our 01' Cobra that had 120k on the engine with 4.30's in its ass most of the life was at 2800-3200 all the time. The guides looked great when I tore it down. The pictures of those worn through ones are crazy!

[Zack]

That is a damn good idea. Can you get any decent view to see if the guides are worn down? I've got a really nice scope too.

Our 01' Cobra that had 120k on the engine with 4.30's in its ass most of the life was at 2800-3200 all the time. The guides looked great when I tore it down. The pictures of those worn through ones are crazy!

Unfortunately Ive never done it. Sorry

[tbone]

Done deal. On order. Thanks for the info on the 04 Mustang ones being cheaper Birdman.

[lifespeed]

As for lifespan, it varies greatly . . . marauderjack has some ungodly amount of miles and his are still fine.

Let's not go jumping to conclusions until we see pictures after teardown. For all we know they are worn down to metal. Yes, he has an impressive number of miles on the engine and I for one would be interested to see how it has worn over the years.

[Marauderjack]

Let's not go jumping to conclusions until we see pictures after teardown. For all we know they are worn down to metal. Yes, he has an impressive number of miles on the engine and I for one would be interested to see how it has worn over the years.

But there is a difference between "fine" and "it still runs".

OK.....It still runs PERFECTLY but I expect it not to anytime now!!:cool:

Is that better??:confused:

[tbone]

OK.....It still runs PERFECTLY but I expect it not to anytime now!!:cool:

Is that better??:confused:

lmao :beer:

[a_d_a_m]

hmm, mine always rattles when the engine is cold. it wont rattle on warm start. tensioners? That's what my Marquis was doing. The Marauder still does it sometimes (and I have new stuff in there now). Make 100% sure it's not your A/C compressor, which is what the Marauder noise is.

[lifespeed]

Is that better??:confused:

We will only be satisfied with a complete forensic analysis after it's demise.

[whitey]

Let's not go jumping to conclusions until we see pictures after teardown. For all we know they are worn down to metal. Yes, he has an impressive number of miles on the engine and I for one would be interested to see how it has worn over the years.

But there is a difference between "fine" and "it still runs".

if you want a brand new marauder, with brand new everything, buy a brand new one....there are things called tolerances and 'within spec'. Spark plugs have a spec of .052-.056. If they are at. 056, it doesn't mean they're bad, its just that they are at their furthest point of being in acceptable tolerance, and the car will still run fine...or say, perfect.

[ctrlraven]

Mine has had the cold start chain rattle since maybe 100k miles? Has 213k now on it.

[whitey]

Mine has had the cold start chain rattle since maybe 100k miles? Has 213k now on it.

Oh god, your tensioners should have been replaced at 90k miles...:rolleyes:

[Marauderjack]

We will only be satisfied with a complete forensic analysis after it's demise.

Stick around then....it just might be awhile!!;) :D

[justbob]

I just bought the whole Ford Racing timing chain kit. It's so complete it even provided new timing cover bolts LOL


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[ctrlraven]

Oh god, your tensioners should have been replaced at 90k miles...:rolleyes:
Yeah I'm sure my oil pickup screen is nice and covered in nylon shavings.


I just bought the whole Ford Racing timing chain kit. It's so complete it even provided new timing cover bolts LOL

Did it come with the metal tenisoners? I've seen some kits have them and then newer kits have the new plastic style.

[lifespeed]

if you want a brand new marauder, with brand new everything, buy a brand new one....there are things called tolerances and 'within spec'. Spark plugs have a spec of .052-.056. If they are at. 056, it doesn't mean they're bad, its just that they are at their furthest point of being in acceptable tolerance, and the car will still run fine...or say, perfect.

Where would I buy a brand new Marauder? I've been satisfied with replacing and rebuilding what has worn out. This has worked out well for me so far. I don't believe that just because our cars are getting old that I have to settle for driving a worn-out car. That's what the parts department at Ford (and elsewhere) are there for ;)

Door hinges and front seat lowers are next on my list. I don't think the engine or trans will need attention for a while yet.

[justbob]

Did it come with the metal tenisoners? I've seen some kits have them and then newer kits have the new plastic style.

I certainly don't recall any plastic on anything but the guides. I got mine from Jegs IIRC last this time last year.



Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[tbone]

[QUOTE=lifespeed;1372227]I don't believe that just because our cars are getting old that I have to settle for driving a worn-out car. That's what the parts department at Ford (and elsewhere) are there for ;)
QUOTE]

EXACTLY!

Can we sticky this on the Home Page in big bold letters?

I hate getting crap for replacing parts that aren't "bad" yet. I believe in being proactive, not reactive. I've spent way, way too much money making this car go fast, run and look good and I've enjoyed every minute of it. However, I do wish that Ford had learned how to paint a car properly by 2003......

I blame it on the Canadians, eh!

[fastblackmerc]

[QUOTE=lifespeed;1372227]I don't believe that just because our cars are getting old that I have to settle for driving a worn-out car. That's what the parts department at Ford (and elsewhere) are there for ;)
QUOTE]

EXACTLY!

Can we sticky this on the Home Page in big bold letters?

I hate getting crap for replacing parts that aren't "bad" yet. I believe in being proactive, not reactive. I've spent way, way too much money making this car go fast, run and look good and I've enjoyed every minute of it. However, I do wish that Ford had learned how to paint a car properly by 2003......

I blame it on the Canadians, eh!

+1!!

I too replace parts that aren't "worn out yet". I'd rather spend a little bit of money when I can rather than spend alot when I have to. Plus I hate breaking down!

[lifespeed]

I hate getting crap for replacing parts that aren't "bad" yet. I believe in being proactive, not reactive. I've spent way, way too much money making this car go fast, run and look good and I've enjoyed every minute of it.

+1 on this. I believe it is money well spent to replace certain "quality of driving" parts earlier, rather than suffer for years driving substandard stuff. Things like shocks and suspension are obvious ones that make a huge difference in enjoyment of the car, but there are others.

And then there are the preventative maintenance parts: water pump, thermostat, fuel pump, etc. These things all fail eventually and don't always give advance warning. I'm taking the car on a 1500 mile road trip this summer, and it won't be with these original parts.

You've got to find a balance. Engines and transmissions on these cars are very durable and might make it close to 200K miles. Rear axle, suspension and some other parts typically need rebuilding or replacement every 100K.

Edit: and this is why I keep paying attention to the timing chain discussions. Clearly some people have had issues. But there is also evidence that these engines can make it a for many miles without needing a new timing set. Despite what some may think, I am not a fan of replacing parts unnecessarily. Yet I know that timing chains stretch, and guides will wear. This is a tough one.

[svtguy]

When I fixed my timing chain rattle/failed tensioner problem, I decided to only replace the one failed tensioner and worn chain guides on that side.

I was a little concerned at the time about leaving the same chains in there because of possible "stretching" but I've read that several people have done it that way with no further issues.

I myself have put almost 10k miles on the car since replacing the tensioner and have had zero problems knock on wood. I figure if the chains ever did cause a problem down the road, I would just fix it again when I get to that bridge.

[WPG_Merc]

I had all new chains,guides & new tensioners put in last aug & had no probs yet. :)

[ctrlraven]

I did order the metal 04 mustang sohc ones from Rock Auto and they are a match to the ones I have off the 04 mach 1 dohc heads I had. Can't wait to get them put on and start enjoying the car again.

[slickster]

I did order the metal 04 mustang sohc ones from Rock Auto and they are a match to the ones I have off the 04 mach 1 dohc heads I had. Can't wait to get them put on and start enjoying the car again.

Did you get this done? Everything work well? What part# thanks

[DrZ]

I have yet to tackle this job but I know I must due to high mileage and some noise. I really don't know if it is necessary? Original owner car and I always use Mobil 1 5w-20 with Mobil 1 oil filter or K&N filter. Sometimes during warm weather I use 5w-30. 134,500 on car and original untouched engine. 2004 MM Question??? Please opinions welcome! Does this procedure need to be done and what parts are needed. I also like Ford OEM parts but someone with first hand knowledge (oily first hand) would be very much appreciated.

[lifespeed]

I have yet to tackle this job but I know I must due to high mileage and some noise. I really don't know if it is necessary? Original owner car and I always use Mobil 1 5w-20 with Mobil 1 oil filter or K&N filter. Sometimes during warm weather I use 5w-30. 134,500 on car and original untouched engine. 2004 MM Question??? Please opinions welcome! Does this procedure need to be done and what parts are needed. I also like Ford OEM parts but someone with first hand knowledge (oily first hand) would be very much appreciated.

I paid the local Ford dealer to do it, so no oily hands on this one. The results were great, the original smoothness, torque and power returned as well as getting rid of that infernal rattling.

If you care about the engine lasting you need to do it. The plastic hydraulic tensioners are a known design flaw and they do fail. Replace with the Ford Racing cam timing kit. Change it all, don't skip the chains. If it has been slapping for awhile check the hydraulic valve lash adjusters too and replace if necessary. They can get beat by a slapping chain as well.

See this thread (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1451159#post1 451159), and this (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=99053&page=2).

[Marauderjack]

I have yet to tackle this job but I know I must due to high mileage and some noise. I really don't know if it is necessary? Original owner car and I always use Mobil 1 5w-20 with Mobil 1 oil filter or K&N filter. Sometimes during warm weather I use 5w-30. 134,500 on car and original untouched engine. 2004 MM Question??? Please opinions welcome! Does this procedure need to be done and what parts are needed. I also like Ford OEM parts but someone with first hand knowledge (oily first hand) would be very much appreciated.

My engine blew from bad gas (we think) and the chains, tensioners, etc. were fine after 10 years and 256,000+ miles!!:beer:

Kinda the luck of the draw maybe??:confused:

Did FORD use different components (manufacturers) during the 2 years of production??:cool:

[DrZ]

Ford Racing M 6004 A464 camshaft drive kit is on my parts list. Thanks very much gentlemen! You experience and knowledge pointed me in the right direction. :burnout:

[Zack]

My engine blew from bad gas (we think) and the chains, tensioners, etc. were fine after 10 years and 256,000+ miles!!:beer:

Kinda the luck of the draw maybe??:confused:

Did FORD use different components (manufacturers) during the 2 years of production??:cool:

I have never seen a Marauder have bad guides with an owner that does religious maintenance.

[lifespeed]

I have never seen a Marauder have bad guides with an owner that does religious maintenance.

Religious maintenance does not preclude the plastic hydraulic tensioner and O-ring from leaking oil pressure and failing to tension. Many Marauder owners have had this problem even though they maintained their cars. A failed tensioner causes accelerated wear on the rest of the components.

It is my opinion the cam timing assembly is a decent design (not great, the passenger side secondary tensioner is on the wrong side of the chain, should be on the slack side) that could last the life of the engine if the tensioner didn't fail. Unfortunately Ford cheaped out and stuck us with a flawed plastic design, which fails and causes chain slap which beats up the rest of the components; chain, guide and even hydraulic lash adjusters.

As an interesting note, perhaps most appropriate for those building new engines, here is an aftermarket tensioner (http://www.cobraengineering.net/tensioner.html) that correctly tensions the slack side of the passenger side secondary. This prevents cam timing changes that occur when the drive side is tensioned. Note this is not related to the primary tensioner which fails. This is a cam timing issue on the secondary side chain on the passenger bank.

Here is a description (http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/engine/1408-simple-mod-motor-fixes-cam-chain-tensioner/) of the passenger secondary tensioner issue.

[lifespeed]

Did FORD use different components (manufacturers) during the 2 years of production??:cool:

I am pretty sure they did, on mod motors in general. I think the ratcheting iron tensioners are original equipment on some years of Mustang. As far as I know, all Marauder tensioners are plastic.

I hope you used the good tensioners in your new motor.

[Marauderjack]

I have never seen a Marauder have bad guides with an owner that does religious maintenance.

That's me Zack!!:beer:

[Spectragod]

I have never seen a Marauder have bad guides with an owner that does religious maintenance.

Mine rattled, car had 24k on it, 3k on the Lidio built stroker.

Turned out to be an oil pump issue for me, not low pressure, but high pressure, 175ish psi @ cold idle, if you tapped the throttle before it warmed up, 200 psi was a common #. the car has a Melling pump in it...... With a sticky bypass. I called Melling while I was up at WDC, looking for an answer, they sent me a new pump.

Since most everything had to come out, I just replaced it. The tensioners I would guarantee were compromised by the high pressure, the rest of the motor looks good, so I possibly got lucky.

Point being, sometimes there are other factors in the mix that can cause the tensioners to go bad, I wouldn't have changed them had I not had to open up the motor.

[Marauderjack]

Mine rattled, car had 24k on it, 3k on the Lidio built stroker.

Turned out to be an oil pump issue for me, not low pressure, but high pressure, 175ish psi @ cold idle, if you tapped the throttle before it warmed up, 200 psi was a common #. the car has a Melling pump in it...... With a sticky bypass. I called Melling while I was up at WDC, looking for an answer, they sent me a new pump.

Since most everything had to come out, I just replaced it. The tensioners I would guarantee were compromised by the high pressure, the rest of the motor looks good, so I possibly got lucky.

Point being, sometimes there are other factors in the mix that can cause the tensioners to go bad, I wouldn't have changed them had I not had to open up the motor.


Key word here......MELLING!!:argue:

I put one in my 408 W Cobra motor and blew off TWO FILTERS!!:eek: Same thing......stuck bypass!!:mad2: No clue how much pressure it takes to blow oil filters but it has to be HIGH!!:eek:

FORD Racing pump in my Marauder motor now!!:beer:

[Spectragod]

Key word here......MELLING!!:argue:

I put one in my 408 W Cobra motor and blew off TWO FILTERS!!:eek: Same thing......stuck bypass!!:mad2: No clue how much pressure it takes to blow oil filters but it has to be HIGH!!:eek:

FORD Racing pump in my Marauder motor now!!:beer:

At least they stepped up and sent a new one, makes 80 psi cold now, and no rattle on startup. On to more mods while its sitting in the shop.

[Marauderjack]

At least they stepped up and sent a new one, makes 80 psi cold now, and no rattle on startup. On to more mods while its sitting in the shop.

Glad ya got her fixed!!:beer:

[ctrlraven]

At least they stepped up and sent a new one, makes 80 psi cold now, and no rattle on startup. On to more mods while its sitting in the shop.
Was the oil pump making the rattle on startup?

[Spectragod]

Was the oil pump making the rattle on startup?

Nope, the tensioners were though. I'm sure 200psi didn't do them any favors...