Snow Tires and Wheels

[BRSMERC]

Hi:

First time here with 03 Marauder questions. Had the dealer pick and install wheels and snow tires. I figure they may stand behind the conversion. They only had the rear wheels to install today and after their installation, I am somewhat worried about the offset. The outside of the tire is slightly outside the wheel well and I would estimate 3" of upward movement of the wheel would have the tire contact the outside of the wheel well. The brake calipers are well away from the rim.
The dealer installed:
-F8AZ-1007-EA Rims
-F87Z-1130-GB Center Caps
-F8AZ-1012-AA Lug Nuts
-235/70R16 Alpin Rear Tires
-235/60R16 Alpin Front Tires (Future)
Help!!
-How much upward movement before end of travel?
-What should the proper offset be?
-This gives a rolling ratio of 1.07 which the dealer says is OK?
-Will the increased track (offset) cause problems?
-Should I take this back to the dealer?

[RCSignals]

They've installed the wheels for pre '03 cars. You are correct, wrong offset.
You want the wheels for a '03 Crown Victoria Police Interceptor.
The PI wheels are Heavier duty than the base '03 CV wheels. I'd suggest getting the full size wheel covers as well, unless you like those Baby center cap "Taxi caps"

http://www.85merk.com/members/rcsignals/RSfront1.jpg

http://www.85merk.com/members/rcsignals/Front1.jpg

Those are the Ford full size caps. there is also a Mercury full size cap in a different pattern

[LincMercLover]

If you're talking about the fake spoke hub cap, DO NOT get it! You'll be forever trying to clean those POS caps!

[Billatpro]

Hey can some of you guy's send me front ,rear and side pic's in a jpeg form, I've tried to save some of these site but have not been able to open them. I need several views to forward to the art departments of a few company's for my die cast program. If any of you had some in Tiff, or ADOBI format that would work really well.

billatpro@aol.com

[tetsu]

Dude, see the posts about snow tires in the Lounge. Your dealer is clueless. A full set of properly installed wheels/tires from Tirerack.com is under $600.

All you have to do is swap them which takes about 30 minutes.

Johnny

[BRSMERC]

Hi:

I did read the posts on the wheels and tires and if I had to do it again I would go through the hassle of importing from the Tire Rack into Canada. Their toll free number does not work in Canada. By e-mail I was forwarded to Dallas but I did not go any further - should have! The good news - they will ship to Canada. I don't know what the freight would be though.
I phoned my dealer and they said they would fix it up. I went with the dealer because it was easy and they should want to keep a good reputation. I have always bought Chryslers and this is my first venture to the "Dark Side". I love the Marauder and wanted the security blanket of a dealer.
For backup information, I measured the offset of the supplied steel rims at 0.5", while the factory wheels are at 2.0" of offset. So each steel wheel is 1.5" further outboard than it should be. So the ball is back in the dealer's court.
As for the tires specified in your forums, the dealer said they don't exist in Canada yet. They are out there but I don't think they want to go through the trouble of getting them for me.
I will get the right wheels and go from there. The front to back ratio of 1.07 worries me a bit with the dealer supplied tires. If there are problems, I'll keep at it and let you all know.
I put most of my miles between home and the dealer so far. Even with the snow tires on the rear only, there is huge improvement on ice and snow. The traction control works quite well with the snow tires as compared with the performance tires on the ice and snow.

[tetsu]

It sounds like your dealer is full of it. If they put the wrong wheels on are you really going to trust them to specify tires?

For wheels, go with 2002 or 2003 Crown Victoria steel wheels or Tirerack equivalent. As far as my search went, the Michelin Artic Alpins were the ONLY tire type that came in those sizes which are the closest size approximation for 16inch wheels.

Just go to your local tire place and have them order the tires/wheels for you. It will cost a bit more than Tirerack but any decent tireplace that sells Michelins should be able to order you these tires and get your 2003 Crown Vic steel wheels.

Your dealer doesnt stand behind tires anyways, you are always on your own with the Manufacturer on tires.

My guess would be that they just tried to foist off some 2001 or earlier Grand Marquis tires/wheels that they had laying around. If that's the case, the rolling ratio will be wrong and you risk damage.

Johnny

[tetsu]

Oh yeah. The tires that they sold you may have clearance issues during cornering.....they are taller than stock tires....and almost as wide....

I assume they sold you the expensive Pilot Alpins since if they sold your Artic Alpins it'd contradict them telling you they cant get them in Canada.

I personally dont like the fitment of those if they are Artic Alpins. Either way your speedo will be off and your rolling ratio is off. Plus 235s are really wide for snow tires. Thinner = better in snow.

Johnny

[SergntMac]

Thanks for the info, BRS, and I see your dilema. Sometimes shipping across the border is difficult, and the currency exchange just adds to that hassel. Nothing wrong with nursing a little comfort zone with the dealer either, you never know when you may really need them in your corner.

I'm not disturbed by your 3" vertical clearance, that's a lot of suspension compression on such a tightly sprung car, it would take some hard cornering or serious braking before rubbing up against the fender. But, your 2" offset may be a problem here. It occurs to me that you are redistributing the load on the lugs, and that may be problematic under stressful conditions. Of course, it's winter too, and I don't expect you'll pushing things much, but this car has a way of making one whimiscal too, let loose on a sunny afternoon.

You'll probably be okay with the tires, but it doesn't sound like these wheels are your best choice. If you have only done the back, remember that the front brake systems are larger.

Keep us posted, and welcome to the Q and A.

[ron460]

BRS. Try CTC for their line in snow or ice tires. I'm using their 225/70-16 out back and 225/60-16 up front no problems whatsoever. Traction control and abs both work as they should. Since x-mas day tested daily.

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by LincMercLover
If you're talking about the fake spoke hub cap, DO NOT get it! You'll be forever trying to clean those POS caps!

There is no fake spoke hub cap for '03 wheels that I know of.

[BRSMERC]

Well, I finally got the correct wheels. The offset is the same as the factory wheels and the wheels seem very heavy duty. The Ford part number is 3W7Z-1007-CA. The dealer said the part number belongs to the Crown Victoria 2003 Police Interceptor. I went with the wheel caps and I am happy with the "Police" look. I think it gives the car two personalities - a winter and a summer one. I couldn't have got this all straightened out without the help of this forum - thanks!

The supplied tires were:
P235/70R16 Michelin Arctic Alpin Rear
P215/65R16 Michelin Arctic Alpin Front

This gives a front to back rolling ratio of 1.07 instead of the 1.05 with the factory wheels. The ABS and Traction Control don't seem to mind the 1.07 ratio. The Marauder now performs quite well on ice and snow and I have no anxieties about taking it out in a few inches of snow or the subsequent icy conditions.

Tire size and traction in snow and ice has always had me confused. I know that smaller tires have been said to produce better traction in snow but I fail to see why. Nice fresh snow is not as troublesome as the ice underneath it. If a tire was not elastic, increased tire size would not increase the friction between the road and tire since total weight or force on the tire remains unchanged. This is the only force that matters with friction. With an elastic, this is not true and increased area usually means increased fiction between road and tire. Proper choice of materials produces the specialty tires such as snow tires. Anyway, I am quite happy with the performance of the larger tires in snow and ice with the Marauder.

I would like to know the reasoning behind the smaller tires being better in snow and ice.

Brian

[tetsu]

Those tires are missized. If you corner hard you are gonna risk chewing a rear on the suspension.

Your dealer sold you Artic alpins? Why didn't he sell you the right size then? Your dealer is clueless...there's no excuse for that super tall tire in the back.

The clearance problem is NOT vertical, it's horizontal. When you corner at any kind of speed those tall tires are going to undergo sheer force that'll make them lean into your suspension.

The worst thing is, your dealer got paid premium price for for giving you a badly thought out solution. :(

Johnny