Exhaust Mod: A good place to start?

[cyled]

Logan and any others who has done an exhaust mod, does it help low end or not with out doing anything else or is this a good place to start?

When does it make a difference? Chip? Gears? SuperCharger? When will it become the bottle neck or is it already?

Also, what mufflers to use to keep bascially the same sound as stock, but increase flow?

A lot of questions, but thanks in advance for the answers.

:)

[LincMercLover]

I don't think it does. Hints why the car comes with "custom tuned exhaust." High flow cats are about it...

[jefferson-mo]

Yeah, looking underneath the car from cat-back it looks like stock Crown Vic(except for the tips).
But that(the small pipes) might actually help low end torque.

Who knows

[cyled]

Just wanted to get this back to the top for more opinions

[cyclone03]

Just looking,the mid section of the exhaust is 2".The CAT section up to the output of the aft Cat is 2 1/4" then the muffler section is 2 1/4".
I wish I had the money to do a before and after test with the stock system then a 2 1/4" X pipe section with no other changes.
I don't think the 2 1/4" would "kill" the lowend but I have no idea if it would pick up the upper-mid and top.

[ONEBADMK8]

2.5 with an x is IDEAL for this car.

[SergntMac]

Thankfully, some of the exhaust questions are old school, and things haven't changed much from technology. Bigger isn't always better, and what's best is dependent on CID and other stuff. Getting more HP may cost you low end TQ, and it could happen vice-versa. IMHO, if you're going to change, 2.5 in pipe is your choice.

I've heard different perspectives on cats, what works what doesn't, and I've heard discussions of X pipe over H pipe benefits that will probably boil down to opinion over fact. Meanwhile, here's some additional info...

http://www.dynomax.com/techsupport.stm

[cyclone03]

onebadmk8,
You got proff of that?
Dyno chart or back to back drag strip runs?
Remember we're all running automatic trans. and our engines don't rev as high as the normaly asperated Cobras.plus we're carrieing at least another 600lbs so if we lose torque off the bottom we may not be able to make it up with revs.

[ONEBADMK8]

Originally posted by cyclone03
onebadmk8,
You got proff of that?
Dyno chart or back to back drag strip runs?
Remember we're all running automatic trans. and our engines don't rev as high as the normaly asperated Cobras.plus we're carrieing at least another 600lbs so if we lose torque off the bottom we may not be able to make it up with revs.

We have been doing Mark VIII's for 5 years now and we have the same exact engine less intake and a few other minor parts, nearly the same weight and the same exact 4R70W trans less a few updates and we have had great sucess with the 2.5 inch x pipe setup with this drivetrain using the 4.10's.

Please email me for more info on what set up works best for stock geared cars. I do not want to violate any advertising rules here on the board. Id be glad to help you out with some info and proof, not a problem.

[Fourth Horseman]

All I did was replace the stock mufflers with FlowMasters, so I can't say about an X-pipe mod, but I didn't notice any performance difference. Then again, I didn't swap them out for a performance increase, either. :cool:

[looking97233]

I was just at my exhaust shop today asking just these questions. The shop is Portland Muffler. They do alot of custom work and I have seen Craftsman Series Trucks in there. I have had them work for me before and I have been very satisfied with them. Anyway what the owner told me was best for the stock motor would be just a cat back type, from the flange at the back of the main cats, they would build and install a 2.25" X-pipe and 2.25 pipes back to either flowmasters or dynaflows (whatever your sound preference is, flowmasters typically are more raspy, while dynaflows are typically a deeper and more suttle sound) then re-use the 2.25 pipe and tips from the muffler back. He said the x-pipe would make the best improvment but will quiet the vehicle down alot, hence the straight thru mufflers. And it still will look stock!
Hope this helps.

[SergntMac]

On a lark, I gave DynoMax a call just to see what they may suggest for an MM. My short advice is to wait. If you're looking for power from the MM, get other basics in place first, and let your seat-of-the-pants impression settle in. Better yet, get a dyno and read the facts, before doing anything exhaust/air box related.

You may stop reading now, the important stuff has been said. The rest of this is just my closet "troll" speaking out.



Tech Support said the engineering department hasn't looked at the MM yet, and won't be looking until sufficient numbers have been sold, to justify the R&D expense. He added they were "plugged in" to a national database of sales records, (who isn't?) and I was the first caller he got about an MM (yeah, sure), and the MM is now in their T/S computer. He added that the R&D guy will call me Monday (we'll see). Are these guys always this smooth?

I suspected this would be the case, here and with other mods. We may hear this "not yet" stuff for a while, maybe spring, if we are expecting to see Marauder specific upgrades from the usual suspects. Sure, we can cut and gut our way through the exhaust (and air box) system(s), but having a front to back performance kit specifically tailored for an MM after a manfacturer's research, makes the upgrade decision come a bit eaiser too.

I'd also guess that after DynoMax investigates the MMs potential, and only comes to offer a cross-ref on in-house and developed parts, that this could be a sign (in their opinion) that all is well from the factory. But, I also stop to remember that their job is to sell us parts, and there is more money in a full kit, than a stock item. So, if they can justify the performance boost, we'll see a MM specific kit. If not, we won't buy much from them and they know this. I'm not sold or swayed either way right now, I'm going to wait.

It's been my experience that overhauling an exhaust system front to back is usually well worth the time and money in power and sound improvements. Anyone fine tuning a CV/PI or MKVIII for performance would do a complete exhaust system overhaul which quite naturally justifies itself with remarkable improvement over stock system(s). But, if new cats, turbos, "X" or "H" pipe, tips, and so on, for my MM don't net me at least 20 HP, I'd prefer to keep my low end TQ, and eat 'em up on the launch.

I'm also considering that the MM is a 4200 pound black evil meanie that takes up a lot of real estate at stop lights and on-ramps. Launch her just right and it's soon race over, psychologically speaking. I beat you when you give up, think about it. Sustained HP at the top end may not be worth the cost of torque at the launch.

Hint: FMCs new anthem "start me up" means something. Is Detroit selling us "stop light/on ramp" wins? Is it possible that LM considers that few MM buyers will actually visit any race track, or even acknowledge that they enjoy the ocassional "run"? LM does seem to know a lot obout the average MM buyer in their overall marketing, you tell me.

I like my MM sound now, and I am quite pleased with the power after my humble, but "required" mods. (something I suspect LM expected 2% of us to complete) It's obvious to me in other areas of the car, that LM was performance minded in their initial design, could be that they figured that a few of us would push the performance window, but they couldn't predict just how far we would go. Therefore, it could be that LM got the exhaust (and air box) stuff right the first time...Could be.

No doubt, there is always room for improvement over any factory design. The real question here is, how much room does an MM leave us? They gave us gobs of power, and leather seats, with an Alpine 100 watt stereo system. Just who are they selling the MM to, and what are they selling? Is on-ramp/stop light an automotive sport to come? The MM does seem to target the "zero 2 eighty" segment of those with money to buy the right American car. "Fast and Furious" for the nostalgic geezers, and Ladies in business suits? Could be...

FMCs new anthem is cool. I love start ups, and spring ain't that far away. Look how fast '02 flew by...

I'll wait.

[looking97233]

Well said SergntMac. I posted the info I got from my local muff shop, but I'm not ready to change anything yet.

[Marauderman]

SergnMac- Happy New Year

Yes, well said--there is a time do make a move and time not to-- a period or hunch to just wait and see type - condition-----I was at first going to wait till the later part of the MM year to buy BUT instead felt --NO--It's best to go ahead now( 11-2-02)..did so and am very glad...seems ..a hunch or whatever you want to call it--I went ahead and am very pleased ---now watching all the threads --reading and etc,, and like you ,,waiting again for that hunch feeling to appear with-in the gut again to tell me to go..make the move and do it bit for now-- however I'm a happy stock fella for now ...very happy to be doing performance similar to alot on these boards with no mods for the moment.. but back to your comments--------

You have pointed out the issues very clearly and plain .....at least to me..

[SergntMac]

Thanks Looking, I did that too, but didn't mention that here.

Walk into any aftermarket retail shop and they WILL have a mod that IMPROVES the base vehicle. It's good business for them, maybe not for us. Their catalogues will see us as GM owners, and we may be cutting away what we should be keeping.

All I'm saying, is that it may be too soon to really know.

[SergntMac]

Hunch...whoa...

Oh yeah, that's it, MarauderMan! What I'm trying to explain here, and getting so overly verbose to do that, is my....hunch. Yeah, here and elsewehere on this board, my hunch would have said a lot more for me than I needed to explain or type. Sorry...25 plus years as a cop in the streets of Shy town, my "hunch" something was up or wrong, was never an acceptable explanation. Now, my hunch means something...thank you...Really.

[Marauderman]

SergnMac-

Well.......excuse me.......I did say Happy New Year!! The "hunch" diologue reference is my own thoughts on my own actions described --not meant to referenced any of your wordly thoughts.....which we all have here....clamn down......if taken that way---my apoligies....was not meant the way you took my comments....

[SergntMac]

OMG...I meant to compliment, to say thanks. "Hunch" was a word I was looking for and couldn't think of when I needed it. I give up.

[MAD-3R]

Whoa, easy fellas, put the hackles down. SMiles work great!
:coolman:

Have a :beer:

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by Fourth Horseman
All I did was replace the stock mufflers with FlowMasters, so I can't say about an X-pipe mod, but I didn't notice any performance difference. Then again, I didn't swap them out for a performance increase, either. :cool:

4thHorse...

1) did you change anything else but the muffler?

2) Can you post any flowmaster part numbers?

I'm getting strong advice on something called a "two chamber" muffler, but I can't seem to find that description mentioned on the flowmaster web site.

Thanks in advance.

www.flowmastermufflers.com/web10/indexf5.html

[Marauderman]

Fourth Horseman-

[Marauderman]

Fourth Horseman-
Curious- AM thinking of doing same as you--Flowmaster--since you said your choice was not for performance and it didn't add any--is the difference with the new flow's alot "louder"or "growl" --That would please me --more of what I'm looking to "hear"....

[Topher]

SergntMac-
The flowmaster 40 series is a 2 chamber muffler. I have those on my '96 Tbird. Like the description on the website says, they are pretty aggressive sounding mufflers, with noticeable interior resonance, around 2700 rpm for my Tbird. Sounds great at idle & gives a nice gurgling on deceleration from high revs in 2nd gear. If your looking for something a little milder, the 50 series is supposed to be quieter inside the vehicle.


Chris

[Fourth Horseman]

I'm not sure about the part number of the Flowmaster 40 mufflers I bought, but I think it's 942041. I paid my local muffler shop $180 each for them plus $30 for installation. They had to use some hangers and do a bit of work, but they did a nice job and it turned out great. And no, I didn't change anything but the mufflers. The muffler shop guys commented on what a nice stock exhaust system the car had, with the H-pipe and all.

As to sound, yes they're louder and much more aggressive, but they're not overly loud, I don't think. There is some minor in car resonance, but that seems to have mellowed a bit. That or I'm just getting used to it. It's not bad at all, though, and I love the more aggressive sound these mufflers make. People at my work have commented on it. "Your car sure sounds mean," or "Damn that Marauder sounds good!" Things like that.

To each their own, of course, but I think a car that looks as aggressive as the Marauder should sound that way, too. I'm 100% happy with the FlowMaster 40s, but as Topher notes, you might want to look into the 50 series if you're concerned about them being too loud.

[bozobill]

cyled: Below is a post I placed weeks ago. This model is a few inches shorter than the stock MM but any professional muffler shop should be able to do a first-rate job. Lots of deep sound and NO annoyong resonance at any RPM.

Flowmaster Series 40, P/N 42441...$90.00 each and $100.00 parts and labor to install (2.5 hrs.). Make sure they anchor the MEGS in the exact factory position. They are flared and if they twist or droop even a little it will be very noticable. Worth the hassle!

[bozobill]

cyled: Below is a post I placed weeks ago. This model is a few inches shorter than the stock MM but any professional muffler shop should be able to do a first-rate job. Lots of deep sound and NO annoyong resonance at any RPM.

Flowmaster Series 40, P/N 42441...$90.00 each and $100.00 parts and labor to install (2.5 hrs.). Make sure they anchor the MEGS in the exact factory position. They are flared and if they twist or droop even a little it will be very noticable. Worth the hassle!

[Topher]

I think the majority of the interior resonance I hear in the Tbird is because the pipe diameters were increased from 2 to 2.5". If you're replacing just the mufflers & keeping stock diameter pipes, you'll probably get the results you're hoping for.

[cyled]

bozobill and all....

Thanks for the info! How close is it to factory sound? I don't want to sound like a racer, but a little more then factory is okay. I do need to drive this daily and long commutes.

[Fourth Horseman]

The quality of the sound is very similar to factory, just loader and more throaty. I notice it mostly at lower RPMs, say up to about 2500 when accelerating away from a light. I do not notice them much at all at higher RPMs or when cruising down the interstate. I commute about 20 miles each way to work every day and the only time I ever really notice them is when I'm accelerating from a stop.

I don't think it's harsh at all, but definitely sounds aggressive. In my opinion it's all about how you view the car. If you're after more of the luxury car image with power then I'd say stay stock. However, if you're like me and wanted a more authoritative rumble then a muffler replacement might just be what you're looking for.

It sounds like I paid a bit too much for my two Flowmasters, based on what bozobill posted, but I'm still happy I did it.

Hope that helps.

[cyled]

Just for comparison sakes, has anybody done Dynomax mufflers on the MM?

I know when I was racing my Mustang, I knew guys with Dynomax mufflers and they like them pretty well. I am use to Flowmasters. I guessing though, there is not much difference when it comes right down to it.

[Marauderman]

Wow- All this information from you guys is so great---Am aiming on the flows 40 series from your comments ,,, but I was wondering--

Like shopping for anything --

Wouldn't it be great ( for those of us who don't know what the different sounds sound like, from the different suppliers, like Flowmasters vs Borla) to have a place to go and "hear " what the new mufflers
are like so you could choose exactly the "sound " you are looking for .....so not to be dissappointed :depress: after paying and driving off and it not be what you wanted......be really :po:

Gee..sorry to be so elementary about this explaination- on't know at the moment howelse to explain the thought... :confused:

[Marauderman]

and ....as you can tell from last post--am also new at getting the smilies
where I wan t them...practice...practice... should make perfect practice........so ...hope to get it correct with more practice...:up: