sort of a rant, sort of an inquiry

[Gccch]

I'm thinking a lot about speeding fines lately. No need to go into details. But I am having trouble with the logic of the laws we face every day on the highway.

We have laws against stealing. If a cop sees you stealing a bag of chips at WalMart, is he going to look the other way? I doubt it. What if it's an ipad? In both cases I would expect he will get involved.

We have laws against public urination. If I pee just a little will they look the other way? Or do I have to take a crap on the sidewalk to get attention from law enforcement?

We have a stated 55 mph speed limit on many highways. Yet when a hundred cars pass by at 65 he sits and watches. The moment he finds one at 66 (for example) he takes action. It's entirely his/their call where to set that limit. We have no idea what the limit is. It is posted as 55, but we all know and nearly all of us violate that. Those that do not are creating an unsafe situation! (have you ever driven on the interstate at a steady 55 when everyone else is doing 70-75? I have, and it is a pretty scary thing to do. (I was following state advice to get my CE light to turn off, by the way - for a solid 20 mins). ((it worked))

Anyway, if the law is advertised, and is generally known to be a false notice, then how are we to know what the "real" speed limit is? We are up against this every day! Is that not wrong on it's face? Isn't there a concept of "equal protection under the law" which would mean we all are targeted for enforcement equally? I mean, the cop lets how many cars go by at 65, or 70, or 75, before he stops the one going 76? Aren't all those others also breaking the same law?

I'm really annoyed by this as I have always been. Now more than ever due to circumstances, mis-fortune, stupidity, recklessness, etc.

Just stirring the pot and wondering why we universally accept this in one are of law enforcement but not others??

[RubberCtyRauder]

They never could pull over each car. So they wait for the example to show itself that 1 extra mph over the others. Just a fact of life or ever other car will be a cop. Rural communities are different. 26 or 27 in. 25 mph zone will get you stopped. Seen it. Other option is to take it to court explaining the keeping with traffic flow for that location at that time of day

[Gccch]

Well I did consider that as well but left it out of my long winded rant. So here is the analogy: Looting. We can't stop the looting as the police are over-run with violators. But we don't let that go on as a course of normal everyday life! There is a way to actually enforce the speed limit as posted. It was proved and put into practice in 1976 for any of those that were around then. Remember the pace car? I remember seeing an entire 3 lanes of an interstate diligently following the cop with open road in front of him. So we CAN do it, but we let them go off "on their own"

http://images54.fotki.com/v77/photos/9/134139/9518592/IMG_6868-vi.jpg

Or this:
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_19143694

[RubberCtyRauder]

Police budgets, Hwy patrol etc. budgets are stretched thin enough. Never happen today, plus was that not derived from the gas crunch and speed limit dropping from 70 to. 55 to conserve gas. Now speeds are back up. So how come the moron that was tailgating me on an undivided 4 lane state route with his hazards on and I could tell was impatient bolted into the turn only lane in the middle ( me and the car next to me inhibiting his progress were doing 57 in a 55) and bolted up to like 80-85 and kept passing others in the turn lane didn't get a ticket today?

[chief455]

LEO paces a few high ticket freeways that I travel.
It is a good practice and I admire the particular trooper that made the decision to do this, rather than sit and wait to collect ticket money. Soccer moms freak out, texting away behind them, makes me laugh...

[Gccch]

By the way, I'm not trying to bash the cops here... just saying we should expect consistency and clarity in what is and is not allowed. We have the means to set a reasonable limit and maintain it wherever it is set. We just don't and I think the practice is unjust.

[RubberCtyRauder]

I'm taking that you got a ticket for being that one singled out ?

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

Just take it as a learning experience in order to improve your skills of looking out for cops. You win some you lose some. That's life.

[CoreyM75]

I'm taking that you got a ticket for being that one singled out ?

I'm positive he did. Just accept it and move on.

The speed enforcement is based off discretion, that is the cop can chose what speed they deem is excessive based on road conditions, weather, etc. I constantly drive between 10 and 15 over the limit, as do the majority of drivers in my area. I don't know anyone that actually drives the exact speed limit at all times, which would be hard to find.

[Shaijack]

Nothing matters, we are living in the Matrix.

[Gccch]

I'm positive he did. Just accept it and move on.

The speed enforcement is based off discretion, that is the cop can chose what speed they deem is excessive based on road conditions, weather, etc. I constantly drive between 10 and 15 over the limit, as do the majority of drivers in my area. I don't know anyone that actually drives the exact speed limit at all times, which would be hard to find.

of course I did. But this quote is exactly my beef. What other posted laws go mostly ignored up until some arbitrary unspecified and variable degree? How is it we accept this as routine? This is not my first ticket and likely not my last. But that's more the luck of the draw than being dangerous. It's just wrong. Why can't we set a reasonable limit that most of us can live with rather than the opposite?

[lji372]

Nothing matters, we are living in the Matrix.

Where is the like button?

And somebody owes me 2 minutes :flamer:

[chief455]

Nothing matters, we are living in the Matrix.
take the freaking BLUE pill!!!

Where is the like button?

And somebody owes me 2 minutes :flamer:
now, 3 minutes....

[RubberCtyRauder]

We are not communist for one so we don't follow the leaders rules or hence getting killed. There is no middle ground..someone, somewhere will always, always overstep it, then the next, then the next..Either you got caught because you were way over the limit or the last one in the group..the easiest to catch and pull over. I don't want pace cars on the highway..I want to to stay as far as possible away from the next car etc..because most of them don't have a clue, are obliviouos to their surroundings so if I have to speed up a few to get by myself and not be in the herd then I do, i'll even slow down and let them all tailgate each other and stay away from me.

[CoreyM75]

of course I did. But this quote is exactly my beef. What other posted laws go mostly ignored up until some arbitrary unspecified and variable degree? How is it we accept this as routine? This is not my first ticket and likely not my last. But that's more the luck of the draw than being dangerous. It's just wrong. Why can't we set a reasonable limit that most of us can live with rather than the opposite?

Life isn't fair. That's the lesson here. It isn't a perfect world and cops are just like anyone else, they aren't perfect. To use your Walmart analogy, Walmart announced a few years ago that they wouldn't prosecute shop lifters if the items stolen were under $25.00, so there is another law that has arbitrary enforcement.

[1Marauder]

I read and reread your thread ( I love a good rant!) and I think you are conflating a few issues here.

First off--we do not pay for traffic control. We pay for safety. We pay for ambulance (safety), we pay for "come and get me I am lost in the mountains (safety) we pay for firemen (and women) safety, and we pay for the Highway patrol to keeps drunks and reckless losers off of the roads. If you run red light--you are endangering people and deserve a stiff fine as you could kill some innocent people. THAT is what we pay for.

If I am driving 85 mph on an open freeway in a low mile Marauder with brand new z rated tires--I am not endangering anyone--even myself.

What you are describing though is different.

Our police and highway patrol budgets are underfunded and they now use traffic enforcement as a profit or fund raising endeavor. In most provines/cities/counties 11 MPH or 15MPH over the spead limit doubles or triples the fine and thus... they will let a smooth non lane changing (non dangerous) 9 MPH over the limit SLIDE, while an 11 MPH over the limit (with any bright color or stand out feature--even simply TIMING) gets you a ticket. But the 2MPH difference is usually a $50 to $100 difference in fines.

Thus they are being selective. And it is this "selective nature" that has rubbed you wrong.

I learned to drive in Italy--No speed limits, no lines on the roads (anywhere) sop no one was "comfortable in "their" lane... as there was no lane. Very few accidents. The first person to flash their high beams (oncoming) had right of way--so everyone was more alert (OH DAMN-HE EBAT ME TO FLASH no I have to slow down and move over)... and if anyone ever flashed from behind you , you moved your ass over FAST without complaining.

Loved driving their.

[Logizyme]

It really comes down to a balance of prosecution and defense. Traffic attorneys are specialized and very good at defending against speeding tickets. If they so choose to they will call it not only the officer who issued the ticket, but law enforcement department's designated radar and laser specialists(guys who's sole job is to train all the other officers and appear in court to answer questions), he will question their equipment, when it was last calibrated and tested, and on and on, which wastes the time of not only multiple officers, but a judge and court staff. If its a ticket for 5 over in most courts can easily be tossed with an attorney on your side, and is a 50-125 ticket. Say they do issue everyone who's 2mph over a ticket, eventually the judge gets fed up and talks to the officer/department, the officers are fed up of giving pointless tickets, the department is fed up of having their officers in court more than on the streets, and it becomes a pointless exercise. The LEO's begin to look to maximize their effectiveness, by putting a personal preference of 10 over or more, they significantly reduce the effectiveness of an attorney to fight the case and the fine and driving record penalties double or even triple. The same principals apply to other infractions too, many officers won't stop you just because you have one brake light out, its not worth the time, but if you've got a brake light out, tabs expired and a cracked windshield one traffic stop is far more effective.

Another thing to keep in mind is that LEO's risk allot, including their life everytime they execute a traffic stop, sometimes they are shot at by someone who does not want to be identified, sometimes a semi truck doing 60 slams into the back of his cruiser, if you are performing that job, you'd ask yourself, is a car doing nothing other than 5 over worth risking my life for - and that certainly plays a part.

[Gccch]

I read and reread your thread ( I love a good rant!) and I think you are conflating a few issues here.

First off--we do not pay for traffic control. We pay for safety. We pay for ambulance (safety), we pay for "come and get me I am lost in the mountains (safety) we pay for firemen (and women) safety, and we pay for the Highway patrol to keeps drunks and reckless losers off of the roads. If you run red light--you are endangering people and deserve a stiff fine as you could kill some innocent people. THAT is what we pay for.

If I am driving 85 mph on an open freeway in a low mile Marauder with brand new z rated tires--I am not endangering anyone--even myself.

What you are describing though is different.

Our police and highway patrol budgets are underfunded and they now use traffic enforcement as a profit or fund raising endeavor. In most provines/cities/counties 11 MPH or 15MPH over the spead limit doubles or triples the fine and thus... they will let a smooth non lane changing (non dangerous) 9 MPH over the limit SLIDE, while an 11 MPH over the limit (with any bright color or stand out feature--even simply TIMING) gets you a ticket. But the 2MPH difference is usually a $50 to $100 difference in fines.

Thus they are being selective. And it is this "selective nature" that has rubbed you wrong.

I learned to drive in Italy--No speed limits, no lines on the roads (anywhere) sop no one was "comfortable in "their" lane... as there was no lane. Very few accidents. The first person to flash their high beams (oncoming) had right of way--so everyone was more alert (OH DAMN-HE EBAT ME TO FLASH no I have to slow down and move over)... and if anyone ever flashed from behind you , you moved your ass over FAST without complaining.

Loved driving their.

Exactly. But what mostly rubs me wrong is the false limit. Set it where you really want it and enforce that. I can live in that world.

Italy now has speed cameras. I was there int he spring and only drove a couple days.. It is actually silly the way those are set up. Every one has a sign telling you where it is. So the drivers go s fast as they want, jam on the brakes when they see the sign, then floor it after passing.

[Pat]

Selective enforcement - yes. Reasons varied. In Bossier Parish speeders are regularly caught but seldom fined, just warned. But in the towns and city within the Parish speeders are always fined and the speed tolerance is low. Highway Patrol in my neighboring state of Texas is lenient. Three warnings, no fines over a period of 3+ years.

I don't like places where traffic cameras are in use. They are set to a certain tolerance, usually very low and always result in a fine, solely a revenue machine.

Cheers,

[lji372]

4 minutes............

[fastblackmerc]

I always travel 7 - 9 MPH over the posted speed limit. Never had a problem in N.C. I've been ticketed for 20+ over the posted speed limit, could have lost my license on the spot, went to court, plead guilty to 6MPH over the speed limit, paid fine and court costs, no point on license or insurance. Revenue generation - yes, I look at it as a cost of using the roads.....

[rauder88]

Long post...
I feel your pain. I get slammed with a ticket for BS. Cop must have been having a bad day for me. I was going 62-63 in a 60 with 3 cars behind me. Pulled me over, nailed me for a speeding fine, tint fine (1% darker than legal, I just got the car and sheriffs that did the title inspection didn't say jack about it) also hit me with a fine for my plate frame obstructing too much plate, which it didn't. 3 violations that could easily all be warnings.
He then proceed to interrogate the hell out of me about where I was going what I was doing so far from home (15 miles) on a Saturday afternoon.
I was very nice and respectful towards him, as all encounters with the law but to no avail. Couldn't really go to court and fight anything because the county seat where I got pulled over was more than 100 miles from my work place.

[chief455]

4 minutes............

I must read slow, I need 6 :shake:

I won't be fooled again though ;)

[Gccch]

I must read slow, I need 6 :shake:

I won't be fooled again though ;)

What are you guys complaining about? I said it was a rant! Crikey!

[chief455]

What are you guys complaining about? I said it was a rant! Crikey!
living in Mazichussetts, you should know better :eek:
never follow the speeding crowd, tag, you're it!

[Gccch]

living in Mazichussetts, you should know better :eek:
never follow the speeding crowd, tag, you're it!

My recent incident was actually in Virginia.... but you're guys in CT are very sneaky. I'm just tired of the cat & mouse game.

[jsignorelli]

I got stopped and ticketed years ago in Oakland NJ. I was driving my 1993 Mustang GT, to a car show, being run by the town. I got pulled over. Not for speeding. Not for careless driving. No.. it was for operating a race car on city streets.
My car gets inspected at the MVC, (then the DMV) facility, not at a gas station. It passed all tests. The officer who stopped me didn't care that all the paperwork and window decals were in proper order.
The judge threw it out of court.
I made sure that none of the members of my three car clubs ever attended the show again. The show is now gone, due in part to the local police and their treatment of the car owners.

[RubberCtyRauder]

This is not a communist state so laws are going to be bent/broken since there is a variable..officer discretion..a speed limit range is what you are after? like say 55-65 mph or 65-75.. well guess what, people are still going to stretch the range. tickets suck, I haven't had one in over 20 years..my eyes never stop scanning for cops, moron drivers, debris, deer etc..most people get into the focus on a fixd point stare when they drive and have no clue what is next to them or behind them..i see it every freakin day.

speeding is mostly common sense..doing 85 in a 55 is not common sense..you nevr did explain the scenario where you got the ticket..traffic?, where? how fast in what zone? time of day..all the variables that contribute to it. were you using common sense? im not trying to bash you or what happened, you posted a rant and I am debating it is all.

[Mr. Man]

I got stopped and ticketed years ago in Oakland NJ. I was driving my 1993 Mustang GT, to a car show, being run by the town. I got pulled over. Not for speeding. Not for careless driving. No.. it was for operating a race car on city streets.
My car gets inspected at the MVC, (then the DMV) facility, not at a gas station. It passed all tests. The officer who stopped me didn't care that all the paperwork and window decals were in proper order.
The judge threw it out of court.
I made sure that none of the members of my three car clubs ever attended the show again. The show is now gone, due in part to the local police and their treatment of the car owners.Oakland is still a giant speed trap. I knew that even before I got my license.:P

[Changinlatitude]

I once read a quote (couldn't tell you where or when) where a Highway Patrol officer was saying (anonymously, of course) that he personally uses the "9 your fine, 10 your mine" rule when deciding on who to pull over. It's all arbitrary. Always has been and always will be.

[Gccch]

This is not a communist state so laws are going to be bent/broken since there is a variable..officer discretion..a speed limit range is what you are after? like say 55-65 mph or 65-75.. well guess what, people are still going to stretch the range. tickets suck, I haven't had one in over 20 years..my eyes never stop scanning for cops, moron drivers, debris, deer etc..most people get into the focus on a fixd point stare when they drive and have no clue what is next to them or behind them..i see it every freakin day.

speeding is mostly common sense..doing 85 in a 55 is not common sense..you nevr did explain the scenario where you got the ticket..traffic?, where? how fast in what zone? time of day..all the variables that contribute to it. were you using common sense? im not trying to bash you or what happened, you posted a rant and I am debating it is all.

I didn't put up my exact details because I wasn't really writing specifically about my circumstances and didn't plan to debate my situation. My only beef is the inconsistency we face so it's really the luck of the draw.

I know,,, I'm whining about it....

I have a 10 yr. clean record, was driving with my hands at 10 & 2 under perfect weather and traffic conditions, basically traveling along with others in one of 5 lanes of light traffic. But I was a couple mph faster than the others. I lost focus on my exact speed and the Waze app lost it's data connection (thanks, T-mobile). The charge is pretty significant, way more than warranted which adds to my frustration. I'll give an update after I defend my good name and pay court, travel, hotel, lawyer, etc.

[martyo]

You're going to jail.






















































:D

[Gccch]

You're going to jail.

:D

I so deserve to! For making you update my tune so many times!!

[martyo]

I so deserve to! For making you update my tune so many times!!

Exactly!

My old client Bubba will be your cell mate!

[Spectragod]

5 minutes.......


Attitude or the lack of it will yes much better results. I've been stopped a couple of times, I haven't received a citation. Adverse conditions, perfect conditions, rush hour, not a ticket. Ohio Highway patrol, a local Ohio LEO and Pa state police.

21 over in rush hour traffic, in Ohio, 58 over in Pa...no citation. Explain how that could be?

[chief455]

5 minutes.......


Attitude or the lack of it will yes much better results. I've been stopped a couple of times, I haven't received a citation. Adverse conditions, perfect conditions, rush hour, not a ticket. Ohio Highway patrol, a local Ohio LEO and Pa state police.

21 over in rush hour traffic, in Ohio, 58 over in Pa...no citation. Explain how that could be?
:eek: dude, wow!

7 minutes...

[martyo]

5 minutes.......



Que?



21 over in rush hour traffic, in Ohio, 58 over in Pa...no citation. Explain how that could be?

Credentials.

[captain]

If I could make a wish..
I would design a rear Windshield that had a "speed read out" so the traffic behind me would read my speed and change their trajectory earlier.
But that's me.

[Bluerauder]

I only use one rule on the highway .... "Don't Be Too Damn Conspicuous". This tip has worked very well for more than 43 years.

[chief455]

5 minutes.......


Attitude or the lack of it will yes much better results. I've been stopped a couple of times, I haven't received a citation. Adverse conditions, perfect conditions, rush hour, not a ticket. Ohio Highway patrol, a local Ohio LEO and Pa state police.

21 over in rush hour traffic, in Ohio, 58 over in Pa...no citation. Explain how that could be?




Credentials.
_^PARTY FAVORS!:eek: had not thought of this....

[Spectragod]

:eek: dude, wow!

7 minutes...

In all fairness, it was a construction zone...:eek: but..... it was 1am, I was the only one on the road and there were no workers present. He was tucked away just over a bridge, as soon as he pulled out with his lights on, I stopped, and waited.......... then he finally got there, was shocked I stopped, was more shocked that I had "party favors".


_^PARTY FAVORS!:eek: had not thought of this....

I told him I knew Jerry, and asked what he thought about gay sex......

[jsignorelli]

It is kind of hard to "hide" on the highway and not be conspicuous when your driving a FFV Cobra kit car, or a 1970 BOSS 302, or a 1969 Shelby GT-500, or a 1993 GT with race numbers on the side window. The sound of the 700+ HP also is a giveaway.
The '04 Silver Birch MM is my most normal car, but I am working on it!

[Bluerauder]

It is kind of hard to "hide" on the highway and not be conspicuous when your driving a FFV Cobra kit car, or a 1970 BOSS 302, or a 1969 Shelby GT-500, or a 1993 GT with race numbers on the side window. The sound of the 700+ HP also is a giveaway.
The '04 Silver Birch MM is my most normal car, but I am working on it!


Running noticeably faster than everyone else, frequent lane changes, or weaving in and out of traffic to get ahead will earn you a traffic stop and a warning or ticket regardless of what you drive. Bright red or Yellow cars are easy targets as are Lime Green, Orange, or bright Purple cars.

[chief455]

In all fairness, it was a construction zone...:eek: but..... it was 1am, I was the only one on the road and there were no workers present. He was tucked away just over a bridge, as soon as he pulled out with his lights on, I stopped, and waited.......... then he finally got there, was shocked I stopped, was more shocked that I had "party favors".

I told him I knew Jerry, and asked what he thought about gay sex......
:banana::beer::beatnik: good thing it wasn't just a camera snapping a pic of your plate.:shake:

I think saying you know Jerry, most LEO's will send you on your way before the gay sex convesation can start. Good call ;)

It is kind of hard to "hide" on the highway and not be conspicuous when your driving a FFV Cobra kit car, or a 1970 BOSS 302, or a 1969 Shelby GT-500, or a 1993 GT with race numbers on the side window. The sound of the 700+ HP also is a giveaway.
The '04 Silver Birch MM is my most normal car, but I am working on it!

you for sure are noticed when on the road :beer:

[Spectragod]

:banana::beer::beatnik: good thing it wasn't just a camera snapping a pic of your plate.:shake:
:beer:

NIF plates FTMFW.........