Something NBC Shooter might enjoy...

[N40GL]

I think one of these will b e living in MY Marauder as soon as I can wire it up!

http://www.butel.nl/pocket/pocket.html

(Now - if I can just find an antenna adaptor to feed the windshield antenna into the Scanner, I'll be all set!)

Mark

(P.S. and a note to NBC-S: I've got NINE antennas on my car in this picture. Can you find them?)

[studio460]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!! OOoooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

N40GL:

Thanks for posting that, N40GL! I am definitely looking into that product! That's cool that it works on the new BC796D as well. Where are you going to mount your 785/796? I was planning on just getting the BC296D handheld for theft prevention purposes, but of course that PocketPC interface is the ****ZZ! This is the main reason I wish we had column shifters so we could build a radio tower in the center column. With that PocketPC interface, is it now practical to mount the 785/796 somewhere remotely? Like in the trunk, for example? Would love to hear your installation ideas!

Couldn't really see your nine antennas in that pic. By the way, I recently pulled all my on-glass antennas off the car--I'm now planning to install permanent, NMO-mount Antenex brand antennas in my trunk (yes, I am going to drill), and POSSIBLY one roof-mounted antenna (the scanner antenna). I was going to go to this guy at the local CBS station here in L.A. to figure out which antennas work best on the new APCO25 digital frequencies for LAPD. I definitely want to get the Antenex stuff in chrome. Can't wait to get this done! Lemme know what your ideas are also on antenna specs for APCO25 freqs. Thanks for the link!

P.S. Also, if you have any suggestions for a SHORT 27MHz antenna for CB transmit/recieve? Should I just get an antenna that's HALF the length of the standard one? I would mount the CB antenna in the trunk since my garage clearance is pretty low. Thanks!

[dwasson]

Is that US spec? The car in the picture is an Opel.

[Ross]

This might get me severely :flamer: from those who don't like any drilling or outside antennas, but here goes. If you don't want the factory antenna in the rear window, how about an aftermarket antenna which goes up and down when the stereo power is on or off? I remember, long ago, that there were even some of those up/down antennas that had a "load" in them for use with a CB as well as AM/FM.

[studio460]

I don't mind drilling into the car 'cause I really like the way chrome antennas look on a black car (see my LAPD bomb squad CV picture here (http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/showphoto.php/photo/351/size/big/password/4ae4c1800c67466be6100c636e6173 93/sort/1/cat/500)), ESPECIALLY in permanent NMO-style mounts. I drilled my rear deck lid to install the factory spoiler and the metal's real soft and easy to drilll. I'll put the short scanner antenna on the roof (if I dare) and the longer CB antenna in the trunk. To balance the trunk visually, it would need one more antenna, but I don't know what I could use a third antenna for. Was looking for a base station-style GMRS radio for which I could install the third antenna, but apparently, nobody makes one. Actually, I want to use two scanner antennas and duplex two frequency ranges for both digital APCO25 and analog police frequencies, so actually that would make for the thrid antenna.

[N40GL]

NBC Shooter,

Glad you liked it. You also asked a lot of questions. Here goes:


Where are you going to mount your 785/796?

I already have a BC250D, but when I move to the BC796D I will mount it on the radio tray (made by Havis-Shield for Crown Vics; see pictures below open and closed) and then run the control cables up the rocker panel.


With that PocketPC interface, is it now practical to mount the 785/796 somewhere remotely? Like in the trunk, for example? Would love to hear your installation ideas!

Check out www.proclipusa.com for the low center mount (#852157) for the Grand Marquis. I have one of these mounted on the RIGHT side of the radio (the photo shows the left side of the radio) to hold the control head from the Kenwood TM-D700A. I already have a Pro-Fit mount (www.pro-fit-intl.com) on the right of the radio for the cell phone holder (#MR-51-95), and the ProClip offered a good second mount. Even with a swivel on the back of the control head, the mount is rock solid.


Couldn't really see your nine antennas in that pic.

Actually, if you count the dual-band as two, there are eleven. In the photos below, you can see the Antenex NMO trunk mount (very rugged; not unlike the Larsen mount on the Bomb Squad car) holding the Antenex VHF/UHF dual band antenna. The on glass antenna on the rear window is a Terk cellular antenna. Under the brake light are four GPS antennas for four separate systems (one is that little gold box on the radio tray) all well hidden. The rear window has the AM/FM antenna. Under the front dash is a cellular modem antenna and a fifth GPS antenna for the alarm system (NOT LoJack!!) from Intertrack (www.trackmenow.com). Under the leading edge of the windshield is the antenna package for the remote starter.


Lemme know what your ideas are also on antenna specs for APCO25 freqs.

Remember - LAPD is running an all-digital (well, almost) system in 506MHz to 508 MHz. It's not encrypted (like Orange County) and NOT trunked. The only thing that makes it APCO-25 is the digital part. So, all you need is a decent mobile antenna in that uipper range of the T-band. Antenex has a 5/8 wave with a tunable center frequency that's only 12 1/2" tall. However, with a whil that low, it will be pretty directional since the car's roof will block anything you are pointed at. You are probably better off with a full-wave antenna so the radiating element gets over the roof. Sticking with Antenex, look at the B4905C. At 31" tall, it solves that problem nicely (you could also get an elevated feedpoint antenna but I personally think those got hit with the ugly stick).


I was going to go to this guy at the local CBS station here in L.A. to figure out which antennas work best on the new APCO25 digital frequencies for LAPD.

If you see Dan Sullivan over there, tell him I said hello (he was the director of ENG for a long time at KNXT). Dan and I worked many an SCCA Pro race together in 1989-1995, when I worked radio support for Fox Radio.


Also, if you have any suggestions for a SHORT 27MHz antenna for CB transmit/recieve? Should I just get an antenna that's HALF the length of the standard one?

If you are going to use only the maximum output of a standard CB radio (i.e. 5 watts with no amplifiers) and your key decision-maker is "Short", I would recommend a portable (i.e. rubber ducky) antenna and an adaptor. In other words, again sticking with Antenex, take the Low Band Portable Antenna (i.e. DEXL**HT or DEXL**KR or DEXL**MR or DEXL25BNX - all the same antenna, just a different mount for each) and get an adaptor for the antenna connector to the NMO mount. Probably the easiest is the BNX, since that's just a covered BNC. Get the DEXL25BNX, a BNC (female)-to-PL259 (male) adaptor, and a PL259 (female) adapter-to-NMO-adapter (this last one from www.rfparts.com in San Marcos) and you have a good CB antenna that's only about two inches longer than originally. If you bound and determined to drill a hole (g*d, I HATE taking down headliners!) then make that mount a PL-259 mobile mount (also www.rfparts.com) and eliminate one of the mounts. The nice thing about this approach (either a PL-259 mobile mount OR an NMO trunk mount) is that when the spirit moves you (or the signal loss is overwhelming through the short antenna), you can take off the short antenna and put on a real antenna.

Remember that the ideal antenna for any given radio is equal in length to the length of a wavelength of the center frequency. For CB, that wavelength is eleven meters long (or 433.07 inches or 36 feet). Most antennas that try to remain efficient are a multiple of that frequency -- for CB, a popular length is a quarter wave, or nine feet. An eighth wave is half of that, and a sixteenth wave is about the height of the rubber duck antenna above. But the shorter it goes, the less well it works on transmit OR receive.


Actually, I want to use two scanner antennas and duplex two frequency ranges for both digital APCO25 and analog police frequencies, so actually that would make for the thrid antenna.

If you've got a BC-796D (or equivalent), you can run analog and digital through the same scanner. Just set up your search banks by zone and set a priority on the remaining VHF analog tactical frequencies, or UHF Rovers. In your line of work, don't you really just need to monitor the hot shots?

Mark

[N40GL]

Here's the other pictures.

I also threw in a photo of my license plate -- and frame. I bet you know what that's all about! :rolleyes: ;)

[studio460]

N40GL:

WOW! What an EXCELLENT post, N40GL! You are DA MAN!!! I can't thank you enough for providing such complete and detailed information on a topic whose details have eluded me for more than a year! I very much appreciate the time you chose to invest in this information-packed post--I really, really, really, appreciate it! THANK YOU!!!

[RCSignals]

Ross

I've heard the 2005 or 2006 CV/GM won't be using glass mount antennas, but some new antenna. Might be able to be retrofitted?

[FordNut]

Ross

I've heard the 2005 or 2006 CV/GM won't be using glass mount antennas, but some new antenna. Might be able to be retrofitted?
I sure hope so. If not, I'm gonna be looking at an older car for a power antenna, maybe an older town car with the antenna on the rear driver's side fender would work? This antenna under glass is the biggest POS.

[N40GL]

I sure hope so. If not, I'm gonna be looking at an older car for a power antenna, maybe an older town car with the antenna on the rear driver's side fender would work? This antenna under glass is the biggest POS.

Technically, it's not "under glass" but the upper part of what looks like defroster wires on the rear window.

Still, it's as good as a more traditional vertical whip antenna in all but the most extreme (i.e. fringe) circumstances. It still 'sees the sky' the same way a vertical stainless whip does, and yet reduces aerodynamic noise from the wind.

As you probably know, you can receive radio signals in a pretty good way without much regard for the collector (i.e. antenna). You've seen coat hangers and so forth doubling for broken whips - in fact, you could probably use a coffee can and get about the same reception. What's key is what happens to it on the way and once it gets to the radio.

For transmit/receive, you'll want a connector cable with high integrity braided lines and good shielding. The trunk mount on my car has a Teflex cable because of those characteristics. In this application, you also want to balance the load to the radio, so the resistance doesn't eat up all the signal. 2-way radios use a 50-ohm resistance cable for example, which is matched to the radio. Television uses a 72-ohm cable. Connect that to an AM/FM or 2-way radio, and you'll pretty much get static. As an aside, in those old SCCA Trans Am days, when ESPN would pack up and leave town, they always left a lot of 72-ohm cable around that the local audio nuts would scarf up and use somewhere else. I always wondered what kind of curses got generated by people who installed it in their cars and wondered why the radio just went dead.

So the feedline is an important part of the equation, too. In the drive to keep costs down, I would bet that Ford (and every other manufacturer) doesn't invest in a high quality cable here, since it's "hidden" and not easily perceived by the user. If you didn't want to get a new radio, and before you got a new antenna, I would replace the far cheaper (and easier to install) feedline and notice the improvement. Radio Shack sells fairly decent RG-58 antenna coaxial cable for low bucks, and if you wanted to get really nice stuff with a smaller diameter, you could put in RG-8X (but you'll have to buy it premade with connectors or install your own). Use the old cable to "pull" the new stuff and you are good to go.

As most people will notice who've upgraded the factory radio, the new radio substantially outperforms the original. This is due to how the radio processes whatever signal it gets. Without going into radio design theory, this has to do with sensitivity, adjacent signal rejection, and a bunch of other things. Because aftermarket stereo manufacturers are selling a premium product (far better in design than one a car maker has to buy in lots of 100,000 or more per purchase), they invest more in the radio processing technology, ofter referred to as the "front end" (since the signal comes in there first). So it's much more efficient and better in what it does with the signal before it's passed on in the radio.

Remember also that delay in time-to-market affects technology for car makers. The aftermarket stereo you buy today was designed and built less than a year ago. The design cycle for cars is much longer. That means the radio in the MM was design (and manufacturing started) about five to seven years ago, and the technology roadmap was 'frozen' at that time for the model run. It's about cost effectiveness -- otherwise you'd be driving a $75,000 MM because of the difficulties in getting the latest-and-best technology into the car.

So, given that the cable is old technology and lower cost, and the radio is at least five years old, it's not really fair to lay the blame on the antenna (which is a passive device anyway). There's a lot more you can do to improve it and still maintain the sleek lines of the MM we all love.

You might also be interested in learning about the RF ("Radio Frequency") monitoring trucks used by the FCC, if you ever saw them. Of course, you probably wouldn't recognize them if you did see them, since they appear to be standard Suburbans, Expeditions, Tahoes and Excursions, and often don't have a single antenna of any sort visible. But I can assure you that these antennas worl as well or better than anything you can put externally on the vehicle. Of course, the FCC strips off the metal skin of the truck in the hood, roof and trunk (on the sedans), and replaces it with fiberglas into which has been bonded multiband antennas and ground planes. Reception is excellent, even in a traditionally in an area with a high noise floor like right over the engine bay. It proves you don't need to be visible to work.

I also experienced the difference a decent radio can make. In my daily driver, I had the standard Ford radio with an outside antenna. Reasonable, but not great, reception. I replaced it with one of Crutchfield's Blaupunkt's from their "open box" selection. All of a sudden I can receive Minnesota (from Chicago). All I had to do was change a key piece.

I hope this clears up some misconceptions about where the problem resides.

Mark

P.S. Back to the original question. I suppose the '05-'06 glass mount antennas will work, but I haven't seem them yet. If they're laminated to the windshield, retrofitting would be awkward. If you really want to move to a whip, you can avoid all the mounting headaches of trying to get it installed solidly on a curved surface by making a bracket and welding it to a bumper support in the back. At least it'll be hidden, because it's mounted to the frame and underneath the polyurethane cover over the bumper.

[FordNut]

I do live in and travel to "fringe" areas in the hills, valleys, and mountains. My '88 model with a standard power antenna never fades or loses signal. The '03 is awful. I lose the most powerful station in the area within 30 miles of the station, while the '88 can pick it up 80 miles away or more. The '02 work van with a standard whip antenna and low fidelity radio also has the good reception like the '88. I have never been in a vehicle with the antenna built into the front or rear windshields that got good reception.