Engine Breakage

[bigslim]

I talked to someone that works at a performance tuner for Ford and they told me that the MM has been getting a lot of engine breakage. I was told that the crankshfts are breaking and that Ford knows of the problem. They said that the engines are going at around 45,000 miles and even before that milage mark. There has been nothing released from Ford on this problem. This maybe the reason Ford is abandoning the four-valve engines and going with a new three-valve design. I hope this problem does not turn into the Taurus SHO fiasco that Ford has turned it's back on. I was told to get rid of my MM before it hits around 45,000 miles. This is from a very reliable source. I cannot say at this time exactly where this information came from but it is valid. Also, I was told that the new Chrysler 300 is suffering a lot of problems and they are being corrected after production by an outside vendor before delivery to the public. I am not telling you this to cause fear but we need to find out what is going on with our cars.

[hitchhiker]

I talked to someone that works at a performance tuner for Ford and they told me that the MM has been getting a lot of engine breakage. I was told that the crankshfts are breaking and that Ford knows of the problem. They said that the engines are going at around 45,000 miles and even before that milage mark. There has been nothing released from Ford on this problem. This maybe the reason Ford is abandoning the four-valve engines and going with a new three-valve design. I hope this problem does not turn into the Taurus SHO fiasco that Ford has turned it's back on. I was told to get rid of my MM before it hits around 45,000 miles. This is from a very reliable source. I cannot say at this time exactly where this information came from but it is valid. Also, I was told that the new Chrysler 300 is suffering a lot of problems and they are being corrected after production by an outside vendor before delivery to the public. I am not telling you this to cause fear but we need to find out what is going on with our cars.
I knew that the extended warranty was well worth it! :rock:

Do ya think that after replacing enough 4V engines
they will start giving us 'lightning' motors? :lol:

[Murader03]

Well, I can attest to the fact that the '99 Cobra version of this engine went to 100K before I traded. My current ride, '03 MM went to 53K before it had engine problems related to an overheat issue back in February. This issue was confined to the #4 and #8 cylinder heads. Both heads had valve issues, the engine has been replaced under the extended warranty, and I picked it up last night. Best $50 deductible I ever spent.......If these engines do indeed have crankshaft issues, then there should be plenty of pissed off owners around somewhere if not here. I haven't seen anyone cropping up on this issue.....on any board.....I'm not saying you info isn't accurate, I just haven't heard of any mishaps.....

[junehhan]

I honestly hope that they are wrong. Since we've brought up the entire V8 Taurus SHO issue, does anyone know how the cam sprockets are attatched to the cams in this motor? I believe they are swedged on using an interference fit on the V8 SHO's. Now, this motor has been around for a while. If it was a huge problem, wouldn't it have shown up on the Lincoln Mark VIII, Lincoln Continental, 96-01 SVT Cobra, and anywhere else this motor might have been used in? We also have guys with blowers running around, so I guess that issue waits to be seen we get more and more Marauders running upto higher mileage.

As far as the Ford extended warranty is concerned, there is a clause in which Ford will pay out a claim up to the value of the car. This has bit some of the v8sho owners in the ass as an engine replacement or repair is often exceeding the value of the car. Heaven forbid resale value ever get's that abysmal on the Marauder.............

[RCSignals]

I suspect you were talking to an alarmist.

With all the members here, and some of them with higher mileage than 45,000 mi, I have never seen a post about breaking crankshafts.

[bigslim]

This was news given to me today. I will keep you posted as I hear more.

[Smokie]

A broken crankshaft with low miles is a very rare occurrance, 10:1 compression would add more stress than say 8.5:1, 32v and 4 cams adds more mass to move.

Still a broken crank would require a major lubricant failure, out of balance condition (cheap u/d pullies with no or inferior dampener) or flawed metal in the crank. or improperly balanced cranks.

[sailsmen]

I would think we would have had members reporting same here. I cannot recall a crankshaft failure.

I do not believe a 3 valve would have any significantly less stress on the crankshaft.

I believe the cranks are the same on all automatic trans non-s/c 4.6 liter engines. Can anyone confirm this?

I bought the MM because my V-8 SHO only had 6 months on the warranty and dealers would only take them on trade with a Ford warranty, out of warranty and dealers would not take them on trade!

[Ross]

I'm not questioning Slim's sources or info, but I wonder how many MM's this could be happening to AFTER 45K? It seems like there probably aren't that many cars out there with that many miles on them. I got mine in Dec. 2002, drive it every day, including a number of business trips of several hundred miles each, and I'm just about to hit 36K. I know there are cars out there that are a few months older than mine, with a few more miles, but I'm betting that there probably aren't a lot of MM's at the 45K point yet. I could be totally wrong about this, but just my .02.

[Logan]

Ford is not abandoning the 4V motor at all. Someone's smoking the funny weed. The 3 valve design replaces the 4.6L 2V. The 4V will continue to be in countless Ford/Lincoln products. As for the crankshafts... Poppycock, that's all I have to say.

[TheDealer]

We have not seen this problem or any problems with Marauder engines at our dealership. RAY :up:

[bigslim]

Logan, I got this from a person that works for a tuner for Ford. As in terms of the new design the F-150 has the new three valve and the Mustang will host the new three valve too. I will find out more about. As I said before this is from a person that has seen many MM's come in for testing. These cars have been put through many miles of testing. I will not doubt what he says. I may be hard to believe but this is what I was told.

[MikesMerc]

Hmmm....this is not an encouraging post. Although I beleive Daryl and his source are indeed very credible, I'm also confused as to why we have not heard more about this by now. I've been unable to locate any reports of this anywhere on the net.

But, in the meantime, I'll start saving up for the Cobra iron block with forged internals. Then it's 16psi time :banana:

[01True BlueGT]

I
I believe the cranks are the same on all automatic trans non-s/c 4.6 liter engines. Can anyone confirm this?

2C5Z-6303-AA FOR ALL MM, Grand Marq and Mustang
2R3Z-6303-BA FOR COBRA S/C
2R3Z-6303-AA FOR MACH 1

These are all for 03 vehicles. So in my opinion, the crank may be a weak point in the motor, considering it has a crank for a SOHC in a DOHC motor.

[Logan]

I know exactly what the 3 valve is slated for. It's intended purpose is to replace the 2v motor. The 4v motor is NOT going away. As for a tuner who works for Ford, please. I know a bunch of people who work at ford, 80% of the time, the right hand has no clue what the left hand is planning. Unless an executive is feeding the information, which doesn't happen, this is all just speculation on his part.

Regarding the cranks, I haven't seen or heard of a single crank failure in a Marauder yet, and I'm pretty darned in touch wouldn't ya think.... :)

[martyo]

But, in the meantime, I'll start saving up for the Cobra iron block with forged internals. Then it's 16psi time.

Hmmm...I want to do something like that too. Bulletproof!!

[TheDealer]

Well that part number fits 4.6 engines built after 1/2/02 in Crown Vics, Mustang GT's, Lincoln Town Cars and Grand Marquis including Marauder. Ford's average months sales for that part number is 12. That's for 1/2 of 2002, all of 2003 and 2004. That a lot of vehicles with sales of 12 per month?????? Doesn't sound like a big problem to me. :up:

[RoyLPita]

Of all of the MM VINs that I looked up, I can only recall 2 that had an engine replacement. One was at the 100th anniversary, and the other is for sale at Bob Saks Toyota. The latter had its engine warranty cancelled because of lack of maintenance at 18k. Bob Saks paid to put a new engine in. The dealer who cancelled the warranty (Park Motor sales) also had the DTR '04 with 56 miles that blew the lower end in the winter.

What about some of these MMs that are or were for sale with mileage near or over 45k? One of our members has one with 65k+ and it never showed up at a dealer once for warranty work. Who knows.

Just my .02 and then some.

[dwasson]

Don't we have the same motor as the Aviator? That would increase the sample size.

[TheDealer]

You are correct. I forgot to check them. Aviators, Mountaineers, and Explorers. That's a lot more units in operation!!!!! 12 per month is a drop in the bucket!!!!!

[TheDealer]

I believe JET has over 50k with a blower and races it. Haven't heard of him breaking a crank.

[REpson]

Bigslim:

Did you inform Lidio of this issue or not? Indeed I really would like to know. 45k is right around the corner for many of us. Hmmmmm.




I talked to someone that works at a performance tuner for Ford and they told me that the MM has been getting a lot of engine breakage. I was told that the crankshfts are breaking and that Ford knows of the problem. They said that the engines are going at around 45,000 miles and even before that milage mark. There has been nothing released from Ford on this problem. This maybe the reason Ford is abandoning the four-valve engines and going with a new three-valve design. I hope this problem does not turn into the Taurus SHO fiasco that Ford has turned it's back on. I was told to get rid of my MM before it hits around 45,000 miles. This is from a very reliable source. I cannot say at this time exactly where this information came from but it is valid. Also, I was told that the new Chrysler 300 is suffering a lot of problems and they are being corrected after production by an outside vendor before delivery to the public. I am not telling you this to cause fear but we need to find out what is going on with our cars.

[Jerry Barnes]

Guys,

Just spoke to some friends at Ford V-Engine Operations and they have not had any problems with cranks breaking or any other problems with the 4.6L 4V engine. The only issue was the rear cyclinder heating issue that was a temporary problem due to a casting defect. That was caught early and fixed.

Slim, who is the contact? I could follow-up to see if they are aware of something that Ford is not aware of.

Trilogy #1 has 33,000 hard miles, no problems!

In ralation to the 3-Valve engine, Ford did a exhaustive study looking at engine complexity, cost, number of unique components, etc. in their engines as compared to Toyota, Honda, BMW, etc. and determine that they had too many variations of engine configurations. Therefore they are simplifying their engine offerings in the future to improve cost and warranty. Ford will offer only 3-valve engines for the bulk of their products in the future. There will be some exceptions for special high performances products like the Ford GT, possibly the Cobra Concept and the Shelby Mustang. Everything else will use the 3-valve set up. This directly from Frank Fsadni, Chief Engineer, V-Engine Operations. I also ride my Harley with a supervisor in the CAD department by the name of Tom Agner and he like a lot of others have said the same thing.

And yes they were having problems with the Dodge 300C, but they are under control and production is going very well. The problem there was the pilot plant build was not working in the production environment. And it was in the area of the chassis and suspension, not the engine. Chrysler engineers were scratching their heads on that one, but they seem to have it fixed.

Well that's what I know. If anyone hears anything else let me know and I will follow-up.

Thanks

Jerry

[REpson]

Jerry,

Thanks for the clarification! That's the type of response that I was looking forward to reading. :up:




Guys,

Just spoke to some friends at Ford V-Engine Operations and they have not had any problems with cranks breaking or any other problems with the 4.6L 4V engine. The only issue was the rear cyclinder heating issue that was a temporary problem due to a casting defect. That was caught early and fixed.

Slim, who is the contact? I could follow-up to see if they are aware of something that Ford is not aware of.

Trilogy #1 has 33,000 hard miles, no problems!

In ralation to the 3-Valve engine, Ford did a exhaustive study looking at engine complexity, cost, number of unique components, etc. in their engines as compared to Toyota, Honda, BMW, etc. and determine that they had too many variations of engine configurations. Therefore they are simplifying their engine offerings in the future to improve cost and warranty. Ford will offer only 3-valve engines for the bulk of their products in the future. There will be some exceptions for special high performances products like the Ford GT, possibly the Cobra Concept and the Shelby Mustang. Everything else will use the 3-valve set up. This directly from Frank Fsadni, Chief Engineer, V-Engine Operations. I also ride my Harley with a supervisor in the CAD department by the name of Tom Agner and he like a lot of others have said the same thing.

And yes they were having problems with the Dodge 300C, but they are under control and production is going very well. The problem there was the pilot plant build was not working in the production environment. And it was in the area of the chassis and suspension, not the engine. Chrysler engineers were scratching their heads on that one, but they seem to have it fixed.

Well that's what I know. If anyone hears anything else let me know and I will follow-up.

Thanks

Jerry

[bigslim]

Jerry, I will call you on this matter.

[Jerry Barnes]

Just some clarification I forgot. The 2-Valve and most of the 4-Valve applications will be going away in favor of the new 3-Valve configuration. Sorry, I forgot the 2-Valve portion of the note.

[bigslim]

I just want to say that I did not post this thread to get anyone worked up. I posted it to make people aware of that there may be some problems with our cars. I wish I could disclose the source from which I obtain this information but I was asked not to. I can share that I was told during testing last year on the MM that many MM's suffered engine failure. I know there are some you that think I am crazy for posting this. I have done what I hope all of you do, that is share information on this car. I will try to find more about this and share what I have learned. I am not one to start rumors so you can take it for what it is worth. I hope that all of us experiance good service with our cars.

[junehhan]

Ford is not abandoning the 4V motor at all. Someone's smoking the funny weed. The 3 valve design replaces the 4.6L 2V. The 4V will continue to be in countless Ford/Lincoln products. As for the crankshafts... Poppycock, that's all I have to say.


Logan, I have to say that I do not appreciate you using Poppycock as an expletive here. :) Poppycock has got to be my favorite snack as I buy it by the cases from Costco here. I prefer the ones with cashews, although I like them with the pecans too.

As far as this matter goes, I think i'll just wait back before I start worrying since there are so many people with so much more mileage than me. I'm more worried about this ticking/tapping issue that many people are experiencing and am hoping Ford will release an official fix since they keep telling my dealer that a fix is under investigation. From what we are reading here, it sounds like the 4 valve motor really may be taking a hike, at least from mass production use............