Fuel system issue, Read Immediately

[DEFYANT]

Today I had to bring in my 2004 CVPI for service. The car just turned 40K miles and set off the CEL. It had a rough idle and hesitation while cruising. A mechanic came out and read the code to find the rear cylinders (4&8) were misfiring. And the engine was running lean.

The suspected cause? Ethanol blended gas! My car it the umpteenth car to come in with these symptoms. Turns out we just switched over from the MTBE blend. What’s the difference? MTBE blended fuel displaced water, leaving it in the bottom of the tanks. The Ethanol blend we are all using now absorbs the water in the fuel. It sits at a certain level in the storage tank (not at the bottom) and is pumped to the customer’s car. Our fuel pump sends it to our engines where the junk corrodes our fuel rails near the 4 & 8 cylinders and plugs up our fuel injectors. The fuel filters do not catch it all – especially if they are old. They have not seen this problem on cars with the return style fuel system. They believe the junk in the gas is simply getting stuck in the rails
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<FONT face=Arial>The fix? New fuel rails! Cars that do not have this problem, or have it fixed, will have the fuel filters changed at EVERY oil change.
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<FONT face=Arial>They have a fuel rail split open at the shop. It shows all the corrosion (Rust?) at the rear of the rail. I will try to get some pics for you to see.
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<FONT face=Arial>On a side note, if this happens to you, it is not necessary to replace the fuel injectors. It is possible to clean them out and reuse them.<o:p></o:p>
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[JVJ]

Will This Happen To My 2002 Lx Sport Cv????

[RoyLPita]

Will This Happen To My 2002 Lx Sport Cv????

It is a crap shoot.

Welcome aboard. Enjoy the site.

[juno]

Thanks for the heads up!

Does anyone have a site for which states/stations are dispensing ethanol?

[Bluerauder]

Today I had to bring in my 2004 CVPI for service.

[FONT=Arial]The Ethanol blend we are all using now absorbs the water in the fuel. It sits at a certain level in the storage tank (not at the bottom) and is pumped to the customer’s car. Our fuel pump sends it to our engines where the junk corrodes our fuel rails near the 4 & 8 cylinders and plugs up our fuel injectors. [/FONT

OK, now I understand how this ethanol blend saves fuel and is better for the environment. On any given day about 10% of the vehicles will be in the shop instead of out on the road.

Sorry to hear about your fuel troubles Charlie. Is this a company car ??

[DEFYANT]

I just got back from the shop. Yep... new fuel rails are being installed as I write this. And for good measure, they are replacing a fuel injector since it was FUBAR.

This was the company car, not the Marauder.

Thay have not seen this problem on any cars prior to the 03/04 model years. I think the 02s have the return style fuel system. The junk in the fuel rails gets recycled back to the tank, so does not sit and rot. With increased fuel filter swaps, the junk in the gas should be caught.

[jgc61sr2002]

John - Welcme to the MM site.

[Hotrauder]

I just got back from the shop. Yep... new fuel rails are being installed as I write this. And for good measure, they are replacing a fuel injector since it was FUBAR.

This was the company car, not the Marauder.

Thay have not seen this problem on any cars prior to the 03/04 model years. I think the 02s have the return style fuel system. The junk in the fuel rails gets recycled back to the tank, so does not sit and rot. With increased fuel filter swaps, the junk in the gas should be caught.

This may be a really serious problem if I read SergntMac's post the other day correctly. MY understanding is that we do NOT have a fuel return system on the Marauders. Thank you for the info, Charlie. Dennis

[ex00p71]

I thought the Crown Victoria and Grand Marquis are flex fuel vehicles?

[duhtroll]

What about the millions of us who have been using this fuel with no problems for the last couple decades?

Even alternating between ethanol and non-ethanol fuels.

In several cars.

For several years.

This sounds pretty fishy to me.

Even *if* the switch is what caused the problem, it sounds like it was created by the excess water from your previous fuel, and not by the ethanol.

Seems to me in Maryland (where temps can dip a bit in the winter) you wouldn't *want* all that water in your tank to begin with. But what do I know?

[kj31067]

is this with e-85 or the 3% to 5 % mix that is around? it is my understanding that e-85 is limited in it s distribution . i have read that they mix the eth with the gas at the last step before distribution because the eth loves to suck up the water that is hanging out in the pipework from the petroleum production that was previously done in the same place.. if the ethanol thing is going to work they are going to have to dedicate time and cash to make this work. read the latest car and driver mag .. good write -up

[kj31067]

if i run my marauder every day or every two days ,will i build up the corrosion ? gas is still a petroleum product, albeit semi -watered down, so to speak. just wondering?

[DEFYANT]

Our fuel systems are comparable to the CVs and GMs.

Fishy or not, the machanic that I spoke to has around 20 years experiance working at the local Ford dealer and almost 10 years working for the company that maintains all the county vehicles. I have described other driveablity issues with two other Fords to him. He got it right both times. Oh, and when I brought my old 02 CVPI in with an idle problem, he accurately diagnoised the IAC to be faulty.

Either way, this is what I found out. It COULD affect us, it could not. I hope we are all in the clear and this was just a tank maintenance issue here.

[DEFYANT]

if i run my marauder every day or every two days ,will i build up the corrosion ? gas is still a petroleum product, albeit semi -watered down, so to speak. just wondering?

I seem to run my company car almost 200 miles a day. FWIW

[JMan]

Defyant,
Does your agency have it's own fueling storage or are you buying fuel on the road (a la PHH) at local gas stations? Alcohol and water are miscible and it tends to carry otherwise dormant water through. That de-icer you Yanks use is primarily ethanol. In a petroleum only environ, that water would sit at the bottom of a fuel storage system unless run down to that level. That goes for fuel storage or vehicle tanks. I suppose one thing we should do is not allow fuel levels to drop below 1/4 tank for the time being (Or ever for that matter!). I would be willing to bet this is a case by case situation that boils down to where fueling is done and the characteristics of the driver's fueling habits. I wish everybody well on this . . .

J