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Thread: Fix for the Ford AODE/4R70W transmissions

  1. #1
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    Fix for the Ford AODE/4R70W transmissions

    Has anyone used this product ? Is it needed ?

    http://www.autotransinc.com/shudfix.htm

  2. #2
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    That thing is an electronic version of Slick 50...it's electronic snake oil, a solution in search of a problem.

    TCC shudder is NOT caused by the PCM programming, it's caused by a breakdown of the fluid/friction surface interface, usually due to worn-out or contaminated ATF. Just change the fluid (Mercon V only) every 15-30,000 miles (depending on your driving habits) and you won't NEED any extra modules in your transmission.
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  3. #3
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    Don't even put this product on your vehicle it could void your warranty and cause other concerns. If there is a shudder torque converter lock-up concern it normally comes from fluid that is breaking down, not due to electronic concerns. Use Motorcraft Mercon V trans fluid and do a complete trans flush (all 12-13qts)when you change it every 15-30K miles depending on how you drive.

  4. #4
    TripleTransAm Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by RF Overlord
    TCC shudder is NOT caused by the PCM programming, it's caused by a breakdown of the fluid/friction surface interface, usually due to worn-out or contaminated ATF.

    Yes and no.

    TCC shudder is a symptom of broken down and contaminated ATF. Contaminated with what? And broken down for what reason? => PCM programming. And why is our TCC so sensitive to broken down and contaminated ATF? => PCM programming.

    Not knowing anything about this gizmo, I figured it had to do something to the application method of the TCC, and by reading the short description, I can imagine how they do it. The stock PCM programming spends a LOT of its tranny-dedicated time commanding stupid TCC application rates of 30%, 50-55%, and other non-100% values. What I believe this thingy does is take ANY signal on the TCC feed and use it as a trigger for a 100% TCC signal which is then feeding the TCC directly. In other words, the TCC feed from the PCM could be as stupid as 5%, and this thing would trigger delivery of 100% to the TCC.

    It *could* also be something along the lines of enhancing the signal (ie. 30% from the PCM could be mapped to 70%, 50% could be mapped to 100%, etc.) in an effort to decrease shudder, but the circuit looks awfully simple... just a few diodes resistors and a FET, nothing "chip"-like. So no custom mapping in my opinion, just a simple on-off that triggers on any sort of signal from the PCM, with some sort of hysterisis such that low pulse widths like 30% wouldn't false trigger the circuitry into thinking the PCM was commanding full-off.

    On a tranny with worn-out fluid, I can see this helping mask out the shudder. On a tranny with newer fluid, I can see this helping extend the life of the ATF such that the shudder wouldn't occur in the first place. Experiencing torque converter shudder on a car at 48000 km (only 30000 miles!!!) of mostly highway driving is a joke... and proof that the stock PCM programming is a TCC-shredder extraordinaire.

    Would I trust this kind of gizmo? Heck no. PCM reprogramming is the way to go to address this 'problem', in my opinion.

  5. #5
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    /Steve's answer is, as usual, more right than mine...my explanation was a little too simplified.

    One of the reasons Ford invented Mercon V was to have a fluid that would stand up better under the stresses their bizarre programming of the TCC causes. So he is correct in saying that if the PCM programming weren't so convoluted, the fluid wouldn't break down (as quickly) and the shudder problems would be minimised. So PCM programming IS an indirect cause, but he's right again in stating that installing this device is only a bandaid, if it works at all. Since you have to drop the pan to install this gizmo, you've then automatically replenished about 1/3 of the additive package when you refill the ATF, and that in itself would most likely cure the shudder, at least temporarily.

    And he's right again when he says he would rather have the PCM programming corrected by someone knowledgeable (like Jerry or Dennis, Zack, Lidio, etc) than to install some kludge with unknown operating parameters...

    /Steve, if you ever get to the Boston area, it would be my pleasure to take you to...Taco Bell. (see if he gets the "Demolition Man" reference... )
    Last edited by RF Overlord; 12-12-2004 at 02:03 PM.
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  6. #6
    TripleTransAm Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by RF Overlord
    One of the reasons Ford invented Mercon V was to have a fluid that would stand up better under the stresses their bizarre programming of the TCC causes.
    Holy cow. Seriously? So that's why anything prior to M-V is a bad idea in modern trannies, then? Egads...

    My car's going in for a tranny servicing this coming week (or next, I haven't called to confirm a date yet, I just got back from Austin). You've given me yet another reason to be present and watching like a hawk.

    Too funny about the TCC shudder: the schedule says new fluid at 50000 km, and at 48000 km I felt the TCC shudder for the first time (or at least I *noticed* it for the first time...). If I can scrape up the cash, I'd love to tweak the tranny program myself - I'll most likely leave the stock spark and fuel parameters, since I'm happy with the car's performance as is (now that it's colder up here, the low end of the car has really woken up with all the lack of spark retard).

    Problem with improving the TCC engagement parameters is that at 100,000 km, they'll see me walk in for whatever reason and assume it's to get my tranny fluid changed again due to shudder... when I claim not to be suffering this premature shudder, they'll know FOR SURE something is up and cancel my warranty (we have longer powertrain warranties up here from Ford for some reason).

    The Taco Bell reference: you saying I'm taking too long to get down there, huh? (ie. in the future, all restaurants are Taco Bells). I would have crashed your most recent New England gathering, but this whole new-house thing coupled with some last-minute before-becoming-a-new-dad-once-again business travelling has made 2004 a busy year on the home front. Soon...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleTransAm
    My car's going in for a tranny servicing this coming week (or next, I haven't called to confirm a date yet, I just got back from Austin). You've given me yet another reason to be present and watching like a hawk.
    /Steve: changing the ATF is almost as easy as changing the oil...in fact, if you install a drain plug into the existing pan, or even better get a gen-U-wine Ford pan with the drain-plug-already-built-in-so-the-dealer-won't-notice option, then it literally IS as easy as changing the motor oil, not to mention saving you a fair bit o' brass...even if you'd rather have the dealer do it every 50,000 kilometres, you can change it yourself in between...I drain the ATF every 15,000 miles, and drop the pan to change the filter every other time.

    last-minute before-becoming-a-new-dad-once-again business travelling...
    WHAT?! Umm...I meant...Congratulations, dude!
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  8. #8
    TripleTransAm Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by RF Overlord
    WHAT?! Umm...I meant...Congratulations, dude!

    Thanks. 2.5 months to get a second (rear facing) baby seat installed in the Marauder. The F-bodies will have to wait until later in the spring or early summer.

    I don't think I'd have the time to change ATF every 15000 miles... today's ATFs have GOT to be capable of going further than this! Even 30000 miles seems a little "1960s-ish" as far as longevity.

    You mentioned seeing some sludge-like material coating the bottom of your pan back when you did your first fluid change, if I recall correctly. Have you seen anything similar in your subsequent pan droppings, and if not, do you think the changed PCM programming had something to do with this?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleTransAm
    today's ATFs have GOT to be capable of going further than this! Even 30000 miles seems a little "1960s-ish" as far as longevity.
    They most likely are, Steve...since it's now so simple to just drain the transmission pan while I'm already under there doing the oil, changing it at every third oil change is, for me, more of a "peace of mind" thing...with the mods I have on the car, and the rather spirited way in which the Bunny Lady traverses the highways and byways of southeastern MA, I figure it's cheap insurance...

    You mentioned seeing some sludge-like material coating the bottom of your pan back when you did your first fluid change, if I recall correctly. Have you seen anything similar in your subsequent pan droppings, and if not, do you think the changed PCM programming had something to do with this?
    Actually, I have not dropped the pan since the initial fluid and filter change at 15,000 miles. I changed just the fluid at the 30,000 mile mark, so I'm not scheduled to drop the pan again (for a filter change) until 45,000...I may do it sooner (I'm a sick man...I actually enjoy this stuff) just to have a look-see, but, if anything, I expect to find no more than the normal amount of sludge and whiskers in there, and most likely I'll find less for this reason: I didn't have the car tuned until just shy of 10,000 miles, and I dropped the pan at 15,000, so the majority of the mileage was without the advantage of the new PCM programming. Also, Dennis and Zack did some more tweaking at Indy that I believe reduced more of the TCC hunting and slipping...
    Last edited by RF Overlord; 12-12-2004 at 05:55 PM.
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